I'm just now getting back into ffxiv since quitting shortly after twintania as a paladin. I decided to just start from scratch since i do not remember much and have no gil. I'm looking at rolling dps this time and was looking at BRDS.
Are they still as OP as they were back then or have things changed quite a bit? It seems monks are great but I was looking at either brd, nin, drg or tanking again to switch to drk when it comes out. Thx!
Question on BRD
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02-09-2015, 10:06 AMDuskmourneQuestion on BRD
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02-09-2015, 01:14 PMClarkamite
They are not as OP as they once were. They still have a secure spot in raid scenarios at the moment but they are certainly not OP. Many people might say they are a little bit underwhelming compared to other jobs but they certainly have a spot in raid groups.
As far as what to roll it would really just have to depend on whatever you're most comfortable with. Pick the job you find the most fun and go from there. Heavensward isn't too far away so all of this really could change a ton when that drops. Play whatever you'll have the most fun with for now. -
02-09-2015, 01:34 PMDoubleDThings have changed quite a bit with the 2.1 nerf, and WD scaling discrepancy for bard have rendered them pretty weak, even when considering the "support" aspect they bring. The tradeoff for DPS vs Support skills for bard is very unbalanced compared to other DPS jobs which also have kickass support skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskmourne
I'd say bards will be around until the first part of 3.0 but if the WD nerfing continues, bard won't be around for long so it might be a good idea to try out a different class. -
02-09-2015, 01:37 PMEmpty-handed
Bard is not op. they are needed for the songs utility. and having the mobility option while maintaining 100% dps uptime. so mechanics that require heavy mobility and movement is mostly given to us.
i would imagine every group that is still progressing through coil will definitely need a bard.
the negative thing about the job. there are MAAAANY bards out there (because its easy to pick up job! and its also fun :D so much freedom). if a static is looking for a bard. that spot is probably already taken by another bard.
this is coming from someone who runs in a 2bards dps setup :cool: -
02-09-2015, 02:21 PMOoshima2 BRDs is so 2.0 lol, why is your group still doing that? D:Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty-handed
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02-09-2015, 06:27 PMEmpty-handed
This is how we started lol. And we kept it going I guess. Lol there is no specific reason.
Our team was actually monk, drg, 2 bards when we first raided scob. Lots of people said. Your team won't meet t8 dps check. Your team doesn't have caster lb how you will down t9... Loll lol. Yet we met t8 requirement and downed t9. Lol that was fun.
Now in fcob our monk switched to blm.
we bards try to keep foe up for him all the time if possible lol. With 4x bv per encounter. :D (the first 2 foes are back to back and are running with bv)
and we as bards benefit from having a drg ^^ -
02-09-2015, 07:25 PMTrixxy
You can be op and hit the top of dps charts if you know how to play videogames, but you're most likely just gonna get enslaved to your mighty BLM overlords and WHM sirs.
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02-09-2015, 07:50 PMWerhuskyI know that feel our static as well is 2 BRD, Mnk, DRG and for T9 as we did solotank was 2 BRD, 2 DRG, MNK. ppl always say you need a caster but never understood why... even did T5 on 1Tank, 6 Sch and 1 Drg or a 1 Tank, 6 melee and 1 healer setup (if ppl wouldnt have fucked up twisters i had put vids up XD). In general game is designed that you can do any content in almost any setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Empty-handed
Though bout the bard dps... well for our team we have monk>bard>drg>bard on dmg output. Its a matter of gearsetup (the higher bard goes crit > anything else > skillspeed) and skill i guess. -
02-09-2015, 10:16 PMTrixxy
You can be op and hit the top of dps charts if you know how to play videogames, but you're most likely just gonna get enslaved to your mighty BLM overlords and WHM sirs.
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02-10-2015, 01:11 AMDuskmourne
Yeah from what I've seen, there are tons of BRDS.... I'll probaly roll ninja, they look pretty fun and appear to do solid dps while bringing some utility.
I knew things had changed, but I thought i would ask. I just remember rolling two BRDS cause of their damage and songs. Thx! -
02-10-2015, 03:53 AMSnugglebutt
Bards these days are extremely gimped on DPS side of our class but can be top of the DPS chart if either a) every other DPS class is playing badly or b) your very hardcore about playing bard for example perfect rotations, constant parser tweaks squeezing out every single drop of blood from your abilities/gear plus wearing better gear than others in the group. If your hoping for very good DPS, unless your extremely hardcore you won't top the charts much.
The fun aspect of bard is still the mobility but with machinist class incoming which will also be ranged DPS, if going to pick ranged physical DPS I would go for machinist, until then BLM and MNK tend to still top the DPS charts most often with classes already present. Bard getting a raid spot is only partially true, they are mostly used in training groups but quite often I seen them be switched out in favor of other better DPS classes once groups have the mechanics down. You need to become good friends of raid static members to avoid being kicked later on in favor of better DPS class I think since most groups I seen which keep a bard in after learning the mechanics is because they made friends with them and not because bard offered of a benefit at that stage regarding clearing content faster.
With ninja it is a fun class to begin with and has some fun moves but mudras can be very annoying, quite dependent on latency and lag issues. DPS wise they don't tend to top the charts that often either but again depends how hardcore you are with the class. Monks whined about them coming near their holy grail of DPS output so SE nerfed the ninjas. -
02-10-2015, 04:03 AMMrYaahQuote:
Originally Posted by Snugglebutt
Also in my experience bards have the advantage in downtime ridden fights like t9 and t13. Every second with nothing to hit is more time for us to ready another round of burst while everyone else loses stacks or has to restart their rotation. -
02-10-2015, 04:21 AMDuskmourne
Chart topping isn't a main push for me...I'm more into playing something that is strong and is needed. I've played at the higher end of mmos in every game from top 50 world to no less than server 1st in wow, swtor, ffxi, and even ffxiv arr back then...I just remembered brd was the thing to have when I was playing.
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02-11-2015, 04:04 AMVlady
You will top the chart more then people think. Bard dps is top notch because 99% of the other dps do not know how to bring out the job full potential. Bards most definitely do not need a dps increase.
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02-11-2015, 10:37 AMOoshimaIf you are actually topping the chars more than you think you should in your raids then maybe you can consider playing with better players lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlady
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02-11-2015, 05:44 PMHereticBlissI lol'ed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooshima
No I didnt. -
02-11-2015, 09:23 PMMenaeThat's a terrible argument. Bards are top notch dps because people playing other jobs suck? That's like saying a model T is faster than a Ferrari because I was driving the relic and totally smoked that four year old who can't reach the gas pedal in the modern car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlady
I do agree that bard dps is probably fine, though. They are on the low end, but songs are incredibly useful in progression. -
02-12-2015, 01:20 AMMaero
Bards can do far more damage then people give it credit for is all i will say.
Ninja even with the nerf is not too far from Monk dps wise tbh.
Although dragoon is closer now as well
Those who say other wise just are not very good at the class -
02-12-2015, 02:29 AMGaldous
If we are theory crafting it would be a terrible argument but the fact is bards are constantly top dps. They might not have the highest sustained but the sure have the highest burst right now. I can spike 800 dps easily for 10-15 seconds which is a must have for certain mechanics with adds or burn phases. Bards are not meant to have the highest sustain but no one really talks about how useful bard burst can be on those moments and that is not even touching insane mobility+utility.
We have seen how OP bards can be when buffed. We are seeing bards are doing above and beyond fine right now and I have never once seen my brother who is in a coils turn 12 group ask to reroll to another dps just because they have the first few final turns on farm and he plays a bard. The real question is why do bards think they deserve even +1 weapon damage. There is no issue with bards. -
02-12-2015, 03:47 AMMaeroMy blm would say otherwise. Bards are capable of high damage but are not at all highest burst damage or top dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdous
Your making it sound like you do higher dps then even Monk or Ninja....
I do however agree that Bards are fine as they are -
02-12-2015, 06:04 AMDuskmourne
Yeah i didn't mean to turn this into a stroke your epeen thread. I was just curious if bards were still wanted/useful in end game lol
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02-12-2015, 10:38 AMOoshimaIt is actually debatable, depending on what is the number of seconds you are taking into account of the burst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maero
BLM's initial burst, with F1 crits or just one F3 proc crit will easily spike the first 10s DPS to over 1,000 but it dies down easily because you only have 5 F1s and you enter UI3 very soon. Meanwhile, BRDs can maintain that respectable 700-800 DPS for the first 15-20s, then about 600 range entering 30s.
Either BLM or BRD will claim the top spot on initial burst but BLM does die down faster than BRD before your Ninja catches up. -
02-15-2015, 06:45 PMKitkat
Brd isn't as OP as they were at 2.0 mainly due to b4b nerf that took place. They can still spike high relatively fast due to buffs, but as far as over all DPS due to song utilization (and subsequent -20% debuff) as well as lowest weapon damage compared to EVERY other job including healers.
Equally competent and geared DPS that are Mnk, Drg, or Nin will easily out damage you over time. That is just how it is, but when it comes to having to switch to Adds or constantly move it helps us stay up near them at the least and if you really want.....due to TP song/Foe any additional/sustained damage they do while you use these songs technically count to your contributed DPS.
Even with the lower WD and Debuff I still enjoy brd because I'm a ranged DD at heart with Nin being a close second favorite. The job does have it's utilization, but it is not top of the DPS charts when played against competent and well geared DPS. I have not problem being a support class...I just wish SE would either get ride of the -20% debuff or at least scale our WD to be the same as other DPS since they are so keen to keep us categorized as such. I'm not even going to get started on the damn LB..... -
02-16-2015, 01:05 AMSnugglebutt
The number of people playing bards will drop significantly when machinists come around in my opinion. Not just during the period when machinist is the new toy to play with but also afterwards I doubt many will go back to bard. Most people picked bard I believe not for the measly three support skills it has or even the preference (not requirement and not needed) in training parties for raids but because it was a ranged DPS with high mobility and that is what made it a fun class to play for most with 'fun' being the most important factor in anything people do in games.
I am not saying some people did not pick it for those other things but I seriously doubt most did...so when this new machinist ranged DPS class using guns not bows comes out also having high mobility, provided is not ruined by turning into another support hybrid in my opinion then I imagine bard numbers will drop a lot. It would be nice to just have a ranged physical DPS just like how BLM is a ranged magical DPS instead of having all ranged physical DPS classes twisted into support roles. BLM is ranged magical DPS and SMN is ranged magical DPS with support, would have machinist as ranged physical DPS and bard ranged physical DPS with support.
I think more than almost all other classes, bards are picked/raged on for the highest number of things...tanks might get raged on if not tanking well, healers picked on if not supporting well, most other DPS classes picked on if not DPS well but bards picked on when not DPS well and not supporting well too. So I hope machinist is just a pure DPS class. Also helps add variety if pure DPS so can pick bard if want to play a ranged DPS/supporting class and machinist if just want a DPS class without the support role. My fear is they will add a mere couple support skills to machinist just so they can justify proclaiming it a support role and nuke it's DPS with debuffs like with bard instead of finding more appropriate ways to balance it's mobility. -
03-03-2015, 05:49 PMBoss_Koivula
I didnt feel like browsing the forums more than 3 pages, so I will post my question here.
I've been using this as my opener: SS (BL,RS), VB (xpot of dex,BfB), WB (HE,IR), HS (Barrage). After that I refresh the dots while I still have all my buffs up and weave in any bloodletter procs or Repelling Shot/Blunt when they are up. Is there something I should change to squeeze out a little more DPS? On our FCoB runs i'm always second when we look at the parse, a little behind our ninja. But I don't know if thats because the others suck or what, but I feel like there's room for improvement. -
03-03-2015, 10:01 PMEumenidegot some things that could help you there. First of all you want IR up BEFORE you apply your dots since the higher crit=more BL resets, secondly dont use xpot+another oGCD together, the animation of the xpot is so long that if you use another oGCD with it you will delay your next GCD, also use wind bite before venomous bite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boss_Koivula
My opener:
8s pre-pull: Foes+BV
4s pre-pull: Quelling->HE->Raging
Bl as tank pulls
straight shot->B4B+IR->WB->X-pot->VB->barrage+blunt(BL instead if reset)->heavy->flaming+blunt/BL->heavy->repelling+blunt/BL->heavy->potent poisoning potion (use BL if it resets) clip the dots @6s left to make sure they get all the buffs
then after the opener you go in to a priority system that looks like:
straight shot>dots>straighter shot>heavy shot with weaving in BL and buffs and clipping your dots @ 3s left
you can also look into delaying your some of your buffs like delay the second B4B a couple of seconds so it lines up with HE+barrage
IR is about to go off CD= delay reapplying your dots by 1-2 seconds to get IR buff on them etc. -
03-03-2015, 11:00 PMsiverstormWelcome to the dps forumsQuote:
Originally Posted by Duskmourne
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03-04-2015, 03:14 AMZephyrKThis made me chuckle. Play what you like, but I think you'll be disappointed if you choose ninja over bard because of over population. I took a break between 2.2 and 2.4 and fully half of all bards seemingly became ninjas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duskmourne
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03-04-2015, 03:20 AMMaero
Nah there is still a huge amount of Bards, past few St runs i have done have been mostly all Bards as of late, lol
Play what you have more fun with but also i would suggest to have both geared and leveled up, never know while doing coil if your group may need a melee or ranged, so be flexible :)
If you will run coil and Primals, etc. that is -
03-04-2015, 05:59 AMBoss_KoivulaYea i´ve seen it takes a while to pop xpot+buff so whatever skill im gonna use next has to wait for a while. Gotta get rid of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumenide
Yup. Thats what i´ve been doing so far. And yeah, I use WB first but my brain had some lag while posting with mobile. I even forgot Flaming Arrow.. :D But thanks for the tips! Gonna train on a dummy and beat it to myself to use IR early on instead and not use xpot with another buff.Quote:
you can also look into delaying your some of your buffs like delay the second B4B a couple of seconds so it lines up with HE+barrage
IR is about to go off CD= delay reapplying your dots by 1-2 seconds to get IR buff on them etc.