As a monk, Shoulder Tackle is a essential way to keep up Grease Lightning and a great position tool, however in some fights the Stun effect prevents monks to use this ability.
Please remove the stun effect, or replace it with something like pacification.
Remove Shoulder Tackle Stun
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02-09-2015, 04:43 AMthunderbreakRemove Shoulder Tackle Stun
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02-09-2015, 05:51 AMSpookyGhost
Shoulder Tackle's stun really is situational to begin with. You'd need to be in a situation where nobody can stun something that's being cast and you're 10 yalms away for some reason, which is pretty ridiculous. I guess it's decent for approaching mobs in the open world, starting with a stun to get off a positional, but other than that... really kinda useless. To be fair, though, there aren't many bosses at end game that need to be stunned, so it's not the biggest issue but I don't think anyone would complain if they took away the stun.
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02-09-2015, 06:32 AMKuroganeAre
Shoulder Tackle should give a GL stack.
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02-09-2015, 06:39 AMthunderbreakShoulder Tackle is severely under used just like Shukuchi and Aether Manipulation. There are so many applications to this ability but people just don't use it often.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
I thought about this initially, then I can already picture a bunch of hate posts saying how OP that'll be.Quote:
Originally Posted by KuroganeAre
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02-09-2015, 09:07 AMKikoriLThe only thing I've ever been able to think of for a non-GCD-based stack helper would be something like "Hold your buffs at their duration until you attack or take damage" on a three minute cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbreak
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02-09-2015, 09:17 AMalsims2007
I haven't cared about the stun since t5 dreads or ifrit hm. At this point there are better things to adjust. I've honestly always wished that it could be used regardless of the distance but get a potency increase if 10 yalms or more
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02-09-2015, 11:22 AMSpookyGhostI mean the stun... people use ST, Shukuchi and AM all the time...Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbreak
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02-09-2015, 11:24 AMCabalabob
I feel like having to back up to use it as a stun (usually to a distance where you're out of the AoE in the first place) defeats the point of stunning. however I don't think it should be removed. Rather I think that the stun on shoulder tackle, leg sweep spineshatter dive and steel peak should be changed to a debuff called stagger that works exactly the same as stun but has a seperate resistance.
That way using these abilities won't mess with the tank's stun so they can continue to use their version to interrupt while the DD's can go wild with their off GCD abilities without annoying anyone. -
02-09-2015, 04:14 PMButcherboy
I use ST a lot in pvp situation where a healer is running and about to cast heal boom ST stun dead healer
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02-09-2015, 04:58 PMFatshineQuote:
Originally Posted by thunderbreak
Yeah they are underused, by bad Ninjas and Blackmages. -
02-09-2015, 06:03 PMFyrmurlFloerasksynNot using shukichi doesn't really make you badQuote:
Originally Posted by Fatshine
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02-09-2015, 09:42 PMAeliott
There really aren't that many fights where stunning is necessary enough for you to have to consciously abstain from doing it, and in the ones that are it's not like it's hard to keep up Greased Lightning. I don't see what the problem is. Ifrit HM you can just walk back up to him in 1 second. That Sahagin in Levi Ex, walk up to it, use Shoulder Tackle to get back to the boss. 1st Sastasha HM boss, just...don't open with it and it's fine :P . The only fight I can recall where this is annoying is Chimera if targeted by an orb, but all its deadly moves can be silenced which is more effective anyway.
The stun CAN be useful in T5 with Dreads. You can pretty much solo the responsibility with your 2 stuns. You should have good distance from where it spawns anyway in case you're locked. It's also pretty useful in every dungeon. The stun part of it is very situational, but so are the occasions where it would mess you up if you used it. I'd rather keep it though. And again, even if you do have to abstain from using it there's no reason you can't keep GL. The only time you should be losing stacks in Ifrit HM / Levi EX etc is when they jump, never because you need to Shoulder Tackle to something but can't build stun resist. -
02-09-2015, 11:19 PMabzoluutCould you give us some examples where ST should be used but isn't? While you're at it, could you also elaborate why you think it's severely underused? I would like to know how you came to that conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderbreak
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02-10-2015, 04:03 AMthunderbreakSure, when EX primal was first introduced I pugged an Ifrit EX. The team passed dps check, but both healers were knocked out. We knew we were on a timer and eruption just came up, so while all of us run south, that epic monk probably noticed he wasn't generating eruption. Timed his Shoulder Tackle through everyone else's eruption, LB boss and we won. Now his judgement was flawless because he knew he'd be safe using LB when Ifrit is doing eruption animation, and his timing was perfect too because he wasn't hit by any of our eruptions even though he went towards them.Quote:
Originally Posted by abzoluut
On the other hand, I've seen lots of monks running towards a target way the hell on the other side after finishing another target. And a few seconds later his GL stack drops. Or in places like Crystal Tower, monk getting taken out by certain aoe while trying to squeeze in the last bit to maintain dps/GL stack and you know all he had to do is ST a random add to dodge it. Scylla comes to mind right away. -
02-10-2015, 11:22 PMMrCookTMNot bad, but it definitely seperates good Nin's from the ones that play to their fullest potential. Shukuchi is a faster way to travel than running, in every situation where you have to switch to a target that is farther away (like from A adds to B adds in t10 after A adds died), you will be faster, can start to dps again earlier and thus doing more dps in the end/ease the dps check. This is true for every 'travel a distance to another target' situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn
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02-10-2015, 11:29 PMSynestr
Keep the stun on ST. It has application. As stated above, not many boss fights allow for stun to even take effect, so no problem keeping it. I like it in runs where adds pop while whoppin on the boss. I can get to them faster, and when most mobs pop they have a passion for heals, that keeps one off them at least; and redirects it to me since I am now putting an a$$whoppin on it.
As for using Shukichi, it must be used. Amazing gap closer, barrier crosser, etc. -
02-11-2015, 01:45 AMEphierBarrier crosser? Shukichi is not a teleport, it is just fast movement similar to jumps. It does not allow you to go over things that are not passable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synestr
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02-11-2015, 05:29 PMSynestrK, guess I worded that wrong. Not aetherial barriers, but things on the ground that you would normally not walk through. Ex.: In Keeper of the lake, second boss with the fire puddles on the ground, walk through them? No. Shukuchi to the other side of them, you take a half second of burn dmg as opposed to 2-3 or more secs of dmg from running through them. Those are the situations that I refer to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephier
Hope that clears it up for you. I didn't think I'd have to clear it up, but meh.