Mastercraft Demimateria

What's the fastest way to get these? Is it still desynthing Artisan Tools?

Also is it better to get Artisan's Needle or 2x Artisan's Spectacles? ie. Quality vs. Quantity, I know Needle has a chance to give up to 3x MCD, but I could get 2 Spectacles instead which might net steadier results.

Working on leveling my BSM desynth as well.

If you have the time investment or you simply buy everything to start then Artisan Needles > Spectacles. You're more likely to get MCD from needles then you would from specs as well, and they drop in x1, x2 or x3 whereas specs only ever give one.

As Havenchild mentioned. Your better off going with the Artisian needles.

Right. Thanks guys!

I could be wrong, I haven't done too much testing with the MCDs, but what from the limited data I've analyzed, specs and tools are equal. I believe (and again, I could be wrong), that both have the same 1 in 6 (16.7%) chance of yielding MCDs. However, when the specs yield MCDs, they only yield 1. When the tools yield MCDs, they can yield 1, 2, or 3, for an average of 2. The tools cost twice as many turn-in items as the specs.

If everything said above is true, then the expected yield for MCDs from both specs and tools are the same. If so, specs would be more likely to yield an amount closer to the average, while tools would have a higher variance (more likely to give more, and more likely to give less). Also, if you aren't a dSkill 90+ GSM yet, the specs are definitely better as they give twice the experience (since you desynth twice as many of them).

If someone who has data on 1k+ tool/specs desynths can comment on this, I would love to know if what I'm extrapolating is true or not.


Also, Artisan/Forager's hats/tools are still the only method of getting MCDs at the present. Sadly, the new Artisan trade-in gear is not desynthable.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

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Thanks for this. I assumed as much too, that the Artisan gears are still the only way to get MCD. I am also aware that the 2.5 Artisan token gears are not desynthable (would be nice if they were, so that LTW and WVR classes can get MCD too).

I currently have my GSM at dSkill 92 or so now - at the moment, I'm currently spending my free time farming ponies (and with my horrible luck, I usually get a lot of i90 accessories to desynth, and no ponies). The variance is what I was initially concerned about - the question boiled down to whether it's more efficient to have a go at a higher chance of 1 MCD, or to go for lesser desynth counts, but have a chance at getting more than 1 MCD perhaps?

Well if it means anything from the batches I do daily with tools now, I generally get on average 5 MCD per 6 Artisan tools where as prior to that when I originally did specs, I was getting maybe 1-2MCD out of 6 specs.

With my data, if we were to double the amount of specs available, that would technically still be lower in MCD production then the tools even if we assumed the optimal enviorment of 2 MCD per 6 specs.

Granted it may have been different for others, but to me it definitely feels you get way more MCD from tools which make it worth it. I'm able to buy all the mats to make bulks of Silver Brooch's say 1.3- 1.5m in mats. Turn all of those into Artisan weaver tools, desynth those, get enough MCD that I can sell 4-5 to make my money back, and have several left over to sell for mass profit or have several to use for supras /gear.

RE: Nyalia

I have about 400 needle desynths and I yield approximately .62 mastercraft demimateria per desynth (accounting for the 1-3) actual needles that turn into some amount of mastercraft is roughly half that - the 1-3 really averages out around 2 very closely. I'm not at my data, but I can be more precise later if you want.

The sample sizes we are going to get are too small to get a very accurate #. Anybody who desynthesizes both needles and specs, at least when they are 100 GSM Desynth+ Always indicates they get more MCD from Needles, b/c they can get up to 3/dsynth. I've heard many stories of people getting more MCD than the amount of items they broke. Mithrie has a video of desynthing 25 tools and getting 31 MCD's. My friends Jade Nephrite and Sikh Witit from Ultros have reported desynthing 10 at a time and typially end up with 11 or 12 MCD's.

I on the otherhand, desynth 20 tools at once, and get ZERO MCD's. Surprise surprise, with a track record like mine I still only have one Supra. I had to buy the materia for my Artisan/Foragers gear despite sinking many many many many hours into gathering and crafting materials/trade in items for tools and desynthing them. For me, it's just far easier (and time efficient) to go Tank Duty Roulette's for gil and buy MCD's. Which is really sad.

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Originally Posted by KendraDarkstar

RE: Nyalia

I have about 400 needle desynths and I yield approximately .62 mastercraft demimateria per desynth (accounting for the 1-3) actual needles that turn into some amount of mastercraft is roughly half that - the 1-3 really averages out around 2 very closely. I'm not at my data, but I can be more precise later if you want.

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I would certainly immensely appreciate it! It's sad sometimes that this forum has no private message feature...

But anyway, 0.62 per desynth would mean 31% chance of yielding MCDs, which is 1.5x as good as what I was experiencing/expecting. My personal dataset for tools is pretty small (only about 50 desynths), but I've only ever gotten ~6 MCDs from it. I guess I should go back to it - my math tells me that, with my old estimated yield of 0.4 and a success rate of only 82%, and my server's current MCD price of 330k, I'd make 160k an hour (net profit) crafting MCD turn-ins (209k/hr with HQ Tinker's Calm, 250k/hr at 100% success rate). Using your numbers, I get a profit per hour of 385k at 88 dSkill, 463k at 88 dSkill with HQ Tinker's Calm, and 525k at 100% success rate).

Hmm, at least I think that math is right. If so, 500k/hr sounds pretty nice!

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

I would certainly immensely appreciate it! It's sad sometimes that this forum has no private message feature...

But anyway, 0.62 per desynth would mean 31% chance of yielding MCDs, which is 1.5x as good as what I was experiencing/expecting. My personal dataset for tools is pretty small (only about 50 desynths), but I've only ever gotten ~6 MCDs from it. I guess I should go back to it - my math tells me that, with my old estimated yield of 0.4 and a success rate of only 82%, and my server's current MCD price of 330k, I'd make 160k an hour (net profit) crafting MCD turn-ins (209k/hr with HQ Tinker's Calm, 250k/hr at 100% success rate). Using your numbers, I get a profit per hour of 385k at 88 dSkill, 463k at 88 dSkill with HQ Tinker's Calm, and 525k at 100% success rate).

Hmm, at least I think that math is right. If so, 500k/hr sounds pretty nice!

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I would say your numbers are on track with the theoretical yield of MCD from artisan tools.

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I would certainly immensely appreciate it! It's sad sometimes that this forum has no private message feature...

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Removing breaks:

Needles: 428
Rose Gold Nugget: 159 / 37%
Rose Gold Ingot: 33 / 8%
Fieldcraft 3: 92 / 21%
Master desynth: 144 / 34%

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Total Mastercraft demi 275 / 64%

I don't have NQ/HQ info for the nuggets and the ingots but it's like 40ish percent. I cound any HQ there as a free bonus. You can get some seriously streaky runs. I've seen 7 total mastercraft from 22 needles and 21 from 22 so...yeah. You need a bit of fault tolerance.

Thank you so much for this! I'm still trying to understand yield rates here, but it's clear tools are better than specs, period. Specs appear to have about half the chance of giving MCDs, and give half as many MCDs, for only half the materials.

I made this thread looking for advice, and I got numbers and math instead. Stay awesome, guys!

Will find time this weekend to mass craft Artisan Needles then.

From my point of view the problem making money with Mastercraft Demimaterias is you rely a lot in luck. You can spend a nice amount of time obtaining three weapons, then desynth and get 3 or more MCD, or get 0. It's a bit discouraging. If you do that every day eventually you'll get the expected average, but with big differences.

Anyway it is a very good way or making gil, and since they sell a lot, if you spend a lot of time and have a lot for sale, even then they sell quickly. Luck is not that important if you desynth a lot, so for people capable of spending a lot of time it's relatively better than for ones that can't or don't like to spend that much time.

Yeah, making only three weapons a day is setting the stage for being disappointed (or very happy). But, given that it takes me ~15 minutes to make each weapon (8 turn-ins per weapon, ~30 steps per synth using all NQ mats, 3 seconds per step), I can understand not wanting to make the 20+ weapons a day (5 hours of pure synthing) it takes to give you a more average amount of money.

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Originally Posted by KendraDarkstar

Removing breaks:

Needles: 428
Rose Gold Nugget: 159 / 37%
Rose Gold Ingot: 33 / 8%
Fieldcraft 3: 92 / 21%
Master desynth: 144 / 34%

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Total Mastercraft demi 275 / 64%

I don't have NQ/HQ info for the nuggets and the ingots but it's like 40ish percent. I cound any HQ there as a free bonus. You can get some seriously streaky runs. I've seen 7 total mastercraft from 22 needles and 21 from 22 so...yeah. You need a bit of fault tolerance.

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Interesting, but you mention removing breaks. I'm running on a current theory that as your success rate increases, the odds of geting the rare drops also increases. I've been breaking artisan toold since I was at about 65%, and i'm up to 80%ish (my desynths kill is still onl 85-90ish) and I get almost no mastercraft demi's, ever. Most people who desynth, say 20 at a time, end up with up to 30 mastercraft demimateria. My friends conducting the same test, also don't break these tools until they were at 100 desynth skill, and also experienced the extremely high mastercraft Demimateria rate.

Food for thought.

I'm rather sure this is wrong. At 100% success rates for bridesmaid's shoes, I've had runs of 10 FC3s in a row. If I were to look at just one of those runs, I could go "Man, I'm really lucky!" but overall, the average of 0.16-0.2 FC3s per desynth holds up.

Your experiences are most likely a mix of selection bias (discounting successful people and focusing on the unsuccessful people), clustering illusion (drawing patterns from small runs of good/bad luck), and insensitivity to sample size (expecting the same or smaller variation in smaller samples compared to larger samples where in reality, there is larger variation in smaller samples). Mostly that last one - you're comparing your experiences with the experiences of several of your friends. Having a lucky streak with your smaller sample is much more likely than all of your friends all having lucky streaks. The bigger the sample size, the less the variance, the closer to the expected value. The smaller the sample size, the more likely to be far more AND far less lucky.

Back when FC3s were hard to come by, I would desynth Summoning Bells for 20k each to level my BSM, starting at a 24% chance. I had many unlucky streaks and broke far more than the expected 3 in 4 (I think I averaged to breaking 9 in 10). However, when I did succeed, I only once obtained FC3 demimateria, out of ~20 successes (and ~200 failures). If your theory was correct, I'd have seen far more than a single FC3.

tl;dr: RNG is RNG.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

~cut for size~ I'm running on a current theory that as your success rate increases, the odds of geting the rare drops also increases. ~cut~

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I've kept a bit of a mental track of where my MC rate rate lies as I've progressed through the desynthing. I landed on 61 +- 3% very very quickly even when my desyn was down near 77%. It's now 96.5ish (I forget the exact number, haven't done any in a few days) and my expected yields over large quantities are still matching my aggregate numbers.

To be clear - within the same level of desynth (it was 93 or 94) I did a 22 desynth run where I got 7 mastercraft, and a 22 desynth run where I got 21. They were back to back.

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Originally Posted by KendraDarkstar

I've kept a bit of a mental track of where my MC rate rate lies as I've progressed through the desynthing. I landed on 61 +- 3% very very quickly even when my desyn was down near 77%. It's now 96.5ish (I forget the exact number, haven't done any in a few days) and my expected yields over large quantities are still matching my aggregate numbers.

To be clear - within the same level of desynth (it was 93 or 94) I did a 22 desynth run where I got 7 mastercraft, and a 22 desynth run where I got 21. They were back to back.

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Those #'s aren't generic with enough testing to prove my theory wrong though. Even all of the Artisan tool desynthesis I have done the entire time I've been doing it, would only be considered a small sample, but if I compared all of my total experiences from this behavior to say, the behavior of converting i90 crafted equipment to Tier IV materia. I had a friend do a SB run and get all Tier 3 materia, where I had only gotten Tier IV materia, and I didn't even believe him when he got mad at me. that gear as roughly an 80% conversion rate into Tier IV materia, so as he kept doing it, eventually, he started seeing normal numbers. I have NEVER seen what any of my friends consider to be normal #'s. Which is possible.

Another really old Dev post regarding the games RNG referenced a book called Thinking, Fast and Slow, and I have actually picked it up as of a couple weeks ago. Haven't spent a lot of time in it, and it does address things such as, humans are terrible intuitive statisticians. MY Heuristic on this topic is incredibly different than anybody else I know, that I am of wildly different opinions when it comes to this subject.

If you still think the RNG in this game is influenced by tangentially related stimuli, I recommend also reading up on logical biases and fallacies. You're right that humans make terrible instinctive statisticians because of the basic assumption that two things that happen at the same time are related. An event occurs, an effect is witnessed, and the human brain links the two such that the effect was caused (at least in part) by the event. However, correlation does not imply causation.

The devs have explained their random number generator to us and how they calculate true random numbers, and they've stated that random chances in this game are not influenced by anything other than the random number generator. If they were, their random numbers wouldn't be "true" random numbers. If something has an X% chance, then it has an X% chance. Nothing changes atma drop rates. Nothing changes zodiac quest dungeon drop rates. Nothing changes alexandrite drop rates from FATEs. Nothing changes meld chances to something other than their stated chance. Nothing changes desynth chances to anything other than their stated chance. Material yields from desynth are based on the item and not your actions. Materia yields from converting items is based on the item's level and type and not your actions.

If you want to believe otherwise, you're certainly welcome to do so, but it's simply not true. Your examples still suffer from the "insensitivity to sample size" fallacy. Smaller sample sizes have larger variance than larger samples sizes, not smaller variance. It's far more likely for a small number of i90 SB conversions to yield all tier IV materia or all tier III materia than for a larger sample size. It doesn't mean that the smaller sample size had some kind of outside factor that influenced the yields, it just means that random is random.

Oh you and your logic!! Pffft!! :D

Regarding OP: Needles!

I managed to get a decent # of MCs desynthing Needles after starting off desything Specs. I almost gave up on the whole process after my bad luck with Specs until a friend told me about getting 3 MCs from one forager tool desynth. That got me motivated again. And, fortunately, by the time I got tired of the Needle grind I was able to buy my last few MCs from MB after having some success on MB myself selling items. Now I have all my Supras, as well as forager and artisan gear, and it sure feels good to not need MCs any more! And now I can sell some of my leftover crawler cocoons too. Can't wait to not need any more Ehcatl Sealants!