Siphon Mp and Tp. Very useful spells, till you reach category of mobs that make them absolutely worthless. Now here is my beef with the undead. They are dead.
What does Siphon Mp and Tp work on living things, but their description says works best of DEAD mobs. So why can't I absorb either of these traits!?
Now I know Final Fantasy doesn't follow lore like other MMOs or Rpgs. When I think of undead like skeletons, I think of a certain class. Necromacer. What does a Necromancer do? Revives the dead. What does it take revive the dead, and keep the dead sustained? Magic. So by that what should an undead mob be constantly surrounded by? MAGIC!!!
I find it silly Skeletons use that pillar of soul attack, fomors can use spells, and so can ghosts, which is all forms of magic. If I can't absorb it, then they shouldn't be able to be moving because they have no magic around them. Even if the undead were considered lich status, it would have a living soul inside the dead body. Still needs magic to keep the soul from being trapped there and to make the body move.
You can't use technology of this game to bring them to life. If technology was used where is the device that should on them at all times or some kind of device attached to the body to receive signals to move?
tl;dr - Make Siphon Mp/Tp work on undead mobs.
Love,
Jinrya The Red Wizard
Seriously bothers the heck out of me...
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08-20-2011, 05:19 PMJinrya-GekiSeriously bothers the heck out of me...
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08-20-2011, 05:24 PMChardrizard
Are you trying to bring logic into a fantasy game?
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08-20-2011, 05:25 PMAvraymWhy are you always trolling?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
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08-20-2011, 05:27 PMJinrya-GekiFantasy logic to a fasntasy game good sir! Somethings must be explained or it simply can't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
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08-20-2011, 05:29 PMRoll
For as long as I can remember, absorb spells like Drain, Aspir/Osmose/Siphon MP always had an opposite effect on undead in the Final Fantasy games. Also white magic like Cure could damage undead and Life/Raise could kill it instantly. It's still kind of weird they didn't implement the "Cure can damage undead" in this game though.
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08-20-2011, 05:30 PMCupDeNoodles
Well he does make a good point and I too find it rather annoying that you can't siphon at least MP from them. Unless they implemented some sort of lore explaining how they move around without magic then OPs statement still makes sense.
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08-20-2011, 05:38 PMJinrya-GekiSomething has to be moving the skeleton, either it's someone's magic or a technology that's all it can be really. If it were techonology then Siphon MP/Tp and Drain couldn't work. But there isn't anything like that on the skeletons body to prove that. So it can only be magic which should be able to be absorbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CupDeNoodles
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08-20-2011, 05:43 PMRollRestless spirits from beyond maybe idk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
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08-20-2011, 05:45 PMMariyaShidouYou never know, maybe they are revived through nanobot, which your eyes can't see due to the size. The Beyond is teaming with Holographic Spirit and Nano-Enhanced Undead! Which explains why Cure hit them hard, because Magic screws up Science, unless it's Magitek!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
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08-20-2011, 05:53 PMRolllmao!Quote:
Originally Posted by MariyaShidou
/10charsss -
08-20-2011, 05:55 PMJinrya-Geki
Ohz you got me there. Nanotechnology! But is even the Garlean empire that advanced, or the Void? The world may never know.
Even though, it doesn't fly that you can cast Siphon Mp on a mob being alive or dead. Why can't it work on the undead. It should be switched so that it can.
Drain not working makes sense, since there is no blood or life force to drain from. That doesn't need to be changed.
If we got into magic more, after an item has been with a person who uses magic for a while, the item absorbs some of the magic itself. Which leads to items with certain stats that people like/want/need. -
08-20-2011, 06:04 PMXooZQ
I think it even more strange that you can drain MP from the undead with Stygian Spikes...
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08-20-2011, 06:25 PMJinrya-GekiDidn't know that. Definitely should work with Siphon then.Quote:
Originally Posted by XooZQ
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08-20-2011, 06:58 PMyukikaze_yanagi
aswer this : siphon and drain suck fluids from body. How can you suck something from a skeleton, or something don't have any corporal fluids ? :3
(stygian work in strange way thou) -
08-20-2011, 07:14 PMMedura
Easy to explain:
death magic KILL'S while life magic does not. Making something dead a part of yourself should rather pooison you, be happy your still walking ;) -
08-20-2011, 10:38 PMDoctorMog
I thought they were UNdead.
Dead (killed) and Undead (living death) monsters are separate categories in FF titles no? -
08-20-2011, 10:44 PMSeif
Most FF games follow certain kind of weakness/strength formulas out of which XI probably developed that formula to the highest level with multiple categories to enemy types and elements.
When the battle system is fixed i really hope they implement Eorzea's own overall logic that applies to every enemy and skill in the game.
Honestly do you even think about what you write?Quote:
Are you trying to bring logic into a fantasy game?
All games need rules to work. -
08-20-2011, 11:45 PMNuru
Good point sir, but they are "un"dead. meaning that siphon spells wont effect as much as if they were dead again. :P
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08-21-2011, 03:27 AMJinrya-GekiThey are undead, but magic keeps them alive. So Siphon Mp should hurt them like you hit them or something, while gaining the mp/tp. Needing the magic to sustain their being in the world, if you take it away, then the undead should not be able to do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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08-21-2011, 03:32 AMOkiura
i do aggre with the OP form a logic point of view and what was said makes sence to me, but i like the way it works because it's a unique trait you have to adapt to when fighting undead mobs.
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08-21-2011, 04:58 AMNuruThat I would have to agree, but then Raise should be able to One-Hit them. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
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08-21-2011, 05:05 AMChizSadly, emphasizing this inconsistency/oversight will most likely result in a nerf to Stygian Spikes rather than a buff to Drain TP/MP.....Quote:
Originally Posted by XooZQ
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08-21-2011, 06:16 AMOkiurait did in ff7 if it landed i've aways wanted to see the return of this, cure still hurt undead in ffxi tough tbh i haven't tried in xiv yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuru
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08-21-2011, 06:56 AMHotohori
Bloodbath, Speed Surge/Life Surge all work fine on undead as well in draining HP. I also wish the names of the siphons were a little more classic. Aspir/Osmose gives off a more Final Fantasy feeling to me.
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08-21-2011, 07:21 AMJayvirDeforteYou cant cast cure on an enemy in XIVQuote:
Originally Posted by Okiura
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08-21-2011, 11:58 AMOkiuraouch, that needs to be fixed lolQuote:
Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte
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08-21-2011, 12:01 PMJayvirDeforte
Well at the moment, there's no need lol.
Besides, I could just see it. A rival LS could feasibly just sit there and spam the NM with cures while you are trying to kill it... especially now that the claim system is going bye bye.
In my opinion, why use Cure to attack when they can just give us Holy? :D -
08-21-2011, 12:13 PMSnowTiger
Dead and Undead are totally different things. And Undead have always been resistant to magic in like every game I've played. Usually you have to either use silver weapons or fire to kill them. Drain and sleep type spells never worked on them either.
I think it would be kind of out of place to change that now. But yes, I do agree that it's annoying. Good to have some mobs that have certain factors like that though. Adds more variety to the games mobs. :P -
08-21-2011, 12:17 PMOkiurabut cure has no effect on other types of mobs, also as the mob is clamed bys your LS a rival LS would not be able to cast cure on your mob.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte
maybe you missed my orignal post and took my qoute out of context (i know it's a few posts up so i can see how you can miss it), i was talking about undead and how casting a spell that gives life to living things damages dead things, like in lots of other games in the FF series. -
08-21-2011, 10:13 PMIrana
I rather be able to cure em to death rather than absorb stuff from em
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08-22-2011, 05:51 AMJennestia
Yep as stated they're undead, they have no vitals if we're bring in 'logic', they're just magical creatures. When you kill an undead mob you're just releasing the magic that was used to reanimate them, when you kill a dodo, you killed something living.
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08-22-2011, 06:05 AMDeadRiser
They are oblivious to them because their life force has always been gone. Recently deceased still has some kind of "life" to them I guess.
I like that we can't absorb from them. You shouldn't be able to absorb from everything. -
08-22-2011, 06:11 AMKoroma_tanuki
to my knowledge drain/aspir type stuff has never worked on undead type mobs in any FF game.