How to handle/investigate RMT in FC?

This guy with no crafting classes, buys up i110 battle gear for his bard, asks me to meld it. I asked him where his gil came from, he said his friend played since 1.0, then I push the name of his friend out of him. What should I ask this friend of his, when I see him online?

P.S. Also can't RMT gil buyers come up with better stories? I always hear this "friend" story.

edit: Anyone have methods or previous experience, of finding out whether a player has gotten their gil through regular gameplay, or illegitimate means? If the latter, we can boot them from FC and slip a note to SE.

I mean, on my server you can definitely make enough gil without having a crafting or gathering class.

I mean there are plenty of ways to make money besides crafting

I made 12m doing casual MBing in 2.1 with making very little use of any crafting. Its possible.

Can't assume all people with 0 crafts don't know how to make Gil. They just have less options to make it.

You can make millions a week off Gardening and Chocobo fruits. I'll tell you right now, I have next to nothing maxed out craft wise, and can pump out 2-5m a week JUST off doing hunts and buying those fruit seeds with seals.

But this person straight said, he got his gil from someone else.....

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

But this person straight said, he got his gil from someone else.....

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It's likely he bought it. You'll never know though without him actually admitting it. One of my friends gets Gil from me, not tens of millions, but enough to play and enjoy himself. So it's not completely out of the ordinary. Why does it bother you so much? Just curious is all.

Well kudos to you for being aware and mindful to begin with. ;)

Also, maybe they did get it from a friend. Their future attitude and displays of character will tell you the real story in time.

Less being sceptical, more fun to play. Whether he bought gil or not, it, by no means, affects you or your FC in any ways. So until someone actually report him to you for such matter, just let it go.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

Why does it bother you so much? Just curious is all.

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We don't want our FC to associate with any RMT / botters/ cheats/ hacks.
- bad FC rep
- getting in trouble with SE

and this following one is just personal opinion (not view of our FC),
- undermines the legitimacy of progress by all FC members.

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

Also, maybe they did get it from a friend. Their future attitude and displays of character will tell you the real story in time.

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Yes definitely! We have had some players in the past who just "flaunt" their gil around, raising red flags. This person succumbed to pressure, and told their IRL friends that he bought gil. Those IRL friends of his, later tattle-tail'd on him, so we were able to get him kicked.

Its the attitude, more so than the gil or principle for me. It is that these cheats are consummate liars, and will most likely lie their way out of situations again in the future.

edit: Just personal opinion, I see both sides of the coin. ie. Why bother spending the time to "hate" someone for buying gil, just play your own game.

I've never bought gil myself, never seen the need for it, but I also don't really get why people make such a big deal about other people who did choose to buy it. I've known several cases of people I know buying gil to fund purchases ingame and just shrugged my shoulders at it. It doesn't affect me, so why should I care. And anybody who thinks it does affect them is just mistaking jealousy for something that actually matters.

the "bad rep" is all in people's heads.


Would have thought by now that people would stop caring about something that has existed since MMOs were invented. Not like any amount of complaining over it is ever going to make RMT cease to exist.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

We don't want our FC to associate with any RMT / botters/ cheats/ hacks.
- bad FC rep
- getting in trouble with SE

and this following one is just personal opinion (not view of our FC),
- undermines the legitimacy of progress by all FC members.

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I've given 10's of millions of gil to friends who play (I even bought a few friends their houses) and I have 0 crafting classes. Just because you have gil doesn't mean you buy gil. People sell runs, do maps, play the market.. heck, I made about 30 mil just buying up as much vit iv materia as I could before the patch, knowing the new i110 accessories would inflate the price. Making 3x as much as I paid for them. It's not cool to accuse people of buying gil without proof.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

We don't want our FC to associate with any RMT / botters/ cheats/ hacks.
- bad FC rep
- getting in trouble with SE

and this following one is just personal opinion (not view of our FC),
- undermines the legitimacy of progress by all FC members.

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Fair enough. Have you put in a ticket about it? Like previously stated, he could really be getting it from a friend. Either way, I highly doubt it falls back on you and your FC with SE if he WAS doing it. That's like banning me because I bought shards for LW off the MB and they had been placed there by bots. (let's hope that isn't the case, because I'd like to finish LW, lol)

Report him for having a friend that give him gil.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

I've given 10's of millions of gil to friends who play (I even bought a few friends their houses) and I have 0 crafting classes. Just because you have gil doesn't mean you buy gil. People sell runs, do maps, play the market.. hell, I made about 30 mil just buying up as much vit iv materia before the patch knowing the new i110 accessories would inflate the price. Making 3x as much as I paid for them. It's not cool to accuse people of buying gil.

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Speaking of materia, I know people who've made absolute fortunes spiritbonding constantly. Considering any Savage Might IV materia goes for 400k+ on my server it's not a huge surprise.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

It's not cool to accuse people of buying gil.

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I haven't accused him yet, that's why I want to know if there are methods / ways to find out if they got their gil legitimately.

I also don't understand why certain people have distaste for people "selling" runs. Crafters may be the highest in gil food chain, but people who sell runs are not? I don't get that.... "tanks gotta eat too".

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

I haven't accused him yet, that's why I want to know if there are methods / ways to find out if they got their gil legitimately.

I also don't understand why certain people have distaste for people "selling" runs. Crafters may be the highest in gil food chain, but people who sell runs are not? I don't get that.... "tanks gotta eat too".

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Honestly, I don't care much for selling runs. But since SE said it's not against ToS, it's literally the fastest way to make gil in the game. And there's no ways to definitely prove if someone buy gil unless they admit it in chat. But if he does that, definitely report him. Buying gil cheapens the game.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

I highly doubt it falls back on you and your FC with SE if he WAS doing it. That's like banning me because I bought shards for LW off the MB and they had been placed there by bots. (let's hope that isn't the case, because I'd like to finish LW, lol)

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What if someone bought Gil, and donated to the FC fund. FC buys house, SE finds out about Gil buyer, would our FC house be demolished?

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

We don't want our FC to associate with any RMT / botters/ cheats/ hacks.
- bad FC rep
- getting in trouble with SE

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This attitude is rough since a lot of XIV peeps do end up using cheats/hacks/or botting and just don't mention it. If one character is buying gil though and he gets caught, your FC can't get in trouble. It's not a thing where they track the gil and see where it goes and then ban anything it touches.

It's more like, you shouldn't be so nosy and if you are unsure, just kick him and call it a day. There's no need for all this witch hunting.

Fyi, I flaunt my gil around and I only have one crafter class leveled. How I make my money? MB trading, SBing very little, selling runs, dyes, and maps. If someone asks me where I got my gil (and I get the impression that they are like you and being nosy), I tell them to bugger off. It seems childish that his friends tattled on him and it became a huge deal. Just kick him and blacklist him and leave it at that. No need to ruin everything.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

What if someone bought Gil, and donated to the FC fund. FC buys house, SE finds out about Gil buyer, would our FC house be demolished?

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No. SE only bans the person buying the gil, not the people who touch the gil afterwards. Anything the gil was used for remains as is.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

I also don't understand why certain people have distaste for people "selling" runs. Crafters may be the highest in gil food chain, but people who sell runs are not? I don't get that.... "tanks gotta eat too".

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You also can't have this attitude since a majority of people who buy these runs are getting them through bought gil. If you have a problem with RMT, then most of the people who you'll be working for in terms of those clear buyers will be people who bought the gil. Also, your FC will get more of a reputation for selling clears than it ever will working with people who bought gil.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

What if someone bought Gil, and donated to the FC fund. FC buys house, SE finds out about Gil buyer, would our FC house be demolished?

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The banning people for buying FC houses with RMT gil is mostly empty threats. I've known of several cases of FCs who did and nothing came of it.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

Just kick him and blacklist him and leave it at that. No need to ruin everything.

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Thanks, that is likely the route we will take. Just go with gut feeling of several long-time FC members, no need for hard evidence, we aren't the police / SE.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

What if someone bought Gil, and donated to the FC fund. FC buys house, SE finds out about Gil buyer, would our FC house be demolished?

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Yes, if you read the footnote on housing 2.1? 2.2 I think? I can't remember when housing came out. They said plain as day, if anyone was investigated and had given money to an FC who had purchased the house, the house would become forfeit, and nothing reimbursed.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

What if someone bought Gil, and donated to the FC fund. FC buys house, SE finds out about Gil buyer, would our FC house be demolished?

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It would likely disappear. You originally posted that this guy was buying gear and that you personally melded it. Someone in your FC buying gil and it being used to purchase plots would definitely raise a red flag, and you'd likely lose it all. But they are two different things. Unless I'm missing something here, you aren't liable for what someone outside your FC does. I'm sure a lot of things on the MB have found their way there via RMT. It's not fair, nor right to punish a player that had 0 knowledge of what was going on.

Edit: my bad, it must have slipped my sight. I totally missed the FC in title. I just woke up awhile ago, so my apologies.

Won't be able to get him banned or anything unless they are being stupid and admit it themselves in chat.

SE has a poor history of tracing RMT gil - random temp ban people that just had alot of gil and returning the account with 1/10 of what they had in terms of gil. While the true RMT buyers already spent all their gil.

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Originally Posted by Ophie-Mio

You also can't have this attitude since a majority of people who buy these runs are getting them through bought gil. If you have a problem with RMT, then most of the people who you'll be working for in terms of those clear buyers will be people who bought the gil. Also, your FC will get more of a reputation for selling clears than it ever will working with people who bought gil.

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This is very true, and I have seen it happen.

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

SE has a poor history of tracing RMT gil - random temp ban people that just had alot of gil and returning the account with 1/10 of what they had in terms of gil. While the true RMT buyers already spent all their gil.

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Wow that is terrible....

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Originally Posted by Drivont

Yes, if you read the footnote on housing 2.1? 2.2 I think? I can't remember when housing came out. They said plain as day, if anyone was investigated and had given money to an FC who had purchased the house, the house would become forfeit, and nothing reimbursed.

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Yikes this is very scary.... I'll go look up the patch notes now. In the mean time, if anyone has a link to it please post it :)

Hi,
Last month we discovered one of our FC members was running
as a gathering-bot, in the tunnel near quarry. Character was
active, no reply to anything in the chat box, was doing the
movement between waypoints, the "bot jump,"
and running for nearly 24 hours at a time with no interruptions.
It didn't take long to discharge him from the FC.

He was running his main (or only) character as a part-time,
or "recreational," or "casual" bot or whatever the terminology
is supposed to be.

I can name a few FC's that are dedicated to casual botting
and having a mixture of real players and bots.

Then there are the professional RMT [closed] FCs consisting of
a level-1 GLD and 7 level-50 identical Thaumaturges or BLMs.

I feel that having a RMT buyer or bot owner in
a FC will jeapordize the FC if SE were to audit the gil trail.

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Originally Posted by BiBi___

We don't want our FC to associate with any RMT / botters/ cheats/ hacks.
- bad FC rep

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Instead you'll be known as the witch hunt FC with the "guilty until proven innocent" approach who condemn members on a hunch.

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Originally Posted by 314159265358979323846264338327

.....witch hunt....

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Thanks for bringing this up.
In our case, we were extremely careful not to engage
in any witch-hunting. We discovered our member, as a bot,
while enroute to do some spirit bonding. We know that there are
no in-game functions to allow an FC to do any audits.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Stumpedify

I've never bought gil myself, never seen the need for it, but I also don't really get why people make such a big deal about other people who did choose to buy it. I've known several cases of people I know buying gil to fund purchases ingame and just shrugged my shoulders at it. It doesn't affect me, so why should I care. And anybody who thinks it does affect them is just mistaking jealousy for something that actually matters.

the "bad rep" is all in people's heads.


Would have thought by now that people would stop caring about something that has existed since MMOs were invented. Not like any amount of complaining over it is ever going to make RMT cease to exist.

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Have you ever complained about bots? Have you ever complained about gil seller spam? Do you care about having your account hacked so RMT can strip it of all gil?

If you know people that buy gil then they are directly supporting bots, spam and account stealing. If you 'don't care' about friends buying gil then you also 'don't care' about everything that buying gil facilitates. There is a reason why it is against the TOS; it is cheating and it makes for a lot of hassle for everyone else to have to put up with the crap RMT pulls to try and make gil.

Oh and that 'bad rep' associated with buying currency is very very real. Almost everyone I play with would blacklist and report anyone they knew to have bought gil. The buyers are the entire problem in the RMT market. Shrugging your shoulders and letting them get on with it only serves to make the sellers more prolific in their attempts to spam everyone else to death and flood the servers with bots.

By willfully ignoring the issue or dismissing it you are part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by SCUBA_Instr

Thanks for bringing this up.
In our case, we were extremely careful not to engage
in any witch-hunting. We discovered our member, as a bot,
while enroute to do some spirit bonding.

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In your case however you identified the player as a bot. It's a vastly different scenario from the original topic at hand, the suspicion of someone engaging in RMT to obtain gil.

Personally as an FC master I do not consider it my responsibility to police my own FC members, interrogate them if suspicions of illicit RMT activities arise or remove them out of my FC if in question. I am after all not an SE employee. The responsibility of curbing RMT activity as a player to me in this case reaches no further than anybody else here, don't engage in it yourself. As for what others do, that's SE's problem to battle in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

Have you ever complained about bots? Have you ever complained about gil seller spam? Do you care about having your account hacked so RMT can strip it of all gil?

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I've seen bots, know they are there, but bots have never interfered with my ability to play the game.

My server doesn't get gil spam. Only 1 person on my blacklist and it isn't an RMT account -- was a real player being nasty.

I've played MMOs since they existed, never ever had an account hacked. /shrug. I'll think about that if it ever happens -- which I doubt.

Why should I report people that I've had fun playing with? They are nice people, clearing content together just like everybody else. It would be a sad thing for me to ruin their fun and my own by creating a witch hunt out of it.

I've witnessed the existence of RMT since even the UO days. As long as there has been MMOs, there has been RMT, and there will continue to be RMT for as long as MMOs continue to exist. It's part of the scenery and no amount of complaining is going to change that. So it's a waste of time and energy that would be better off used enjoying the game. Your post sounds like it's full of a lot of unnecessary stress you're putting on yourself. Should probably go relax and enjoy the game instead of stressing out about how other people choose to play.

I have hit the point where RMT no longer bothers me.

Since Defenders of Eorzea I have had about 5 friends join the game. 3 left after hitting 50 because without me to give them Gil they could not progress well.

I taught them how to play the market for cash. How to farm Tomes, & ended up having to buy them ilvl 70 HQ crafted weapons just so they could hit the ground running.

With how inflated prices are on servers I'm not surprised the RMT bots stay in business.
I feel more evil than them. Buying up Materia, rare mats, shards, & etc so I can resell them for quadruple the price.

Fact is. You can make millions without RMT. I try not to dwell on if others buy it or not.
Some folks don't have the time to craft/gather/scam the Marketboard.

Need gil simple... play the game:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...een_gil_guide/

Now consider this if a person saves their gil and only grab stuff they use/need that's basically ~1mil per month. So yes you can save up a lot of gil without run selling/crafting/gathering/etc...

True that. My gil consistently goes up just from playing the game. Do endgame content, earn gil reward for completing content as tank, earn soldiery, trade soldiery in for mats, sell mats on MB, profit! This process is just playing the game, I'm not doing anything extra. Granted I'm not the richest person on the server, but I'm not the poorest either. I've got enough gil to repair and buy the food I need for coil progression, even earned enough to deck myself out in full foragers gear for gathering -- purchased already pentamelded HQ pieces.