Trade-Spam During Hunts, a New Low

Today I was spiritbonding in Urth's Gift with a full party and an A-rank appeared right beside us. I don't go out of my way to do hunts because the environment has become so toxic now that SE has unfortunately added endgame items to hunts (AGAIN). However, it was there and I figured why not?

So I switched to tank and my party switched jobs also. Then I pulled the hunt and we started fighting it. Well another party arrived and while their tank was trying to get hate from me another member began to trade spam me so I could not perform any actions. In the middle of this I blacklisted them so I could go back to fighting but I had lost a lot of valuable time. Thankfully our party got full credit but I felt like this was the most hostile action I've witnessed by another player during hunts. Is this the new norm?

I don't do hunting parties because players will wish "early pullers" (someone who pulls before they personally get there lol) cancer, herpes, death etc. (yes this is no exaggeration). Threats of reporting other players go out every time, name-calling, the kind of stuff that doesn't happen when hunts are limited to vanity, minions, mounts, crafting mats, and the like.

This thread is to ask SE 2 things:

1) Please limit future hunt rewards to non-locked out/endgame items.
2) But at the very least prevent opening trade windows with players who are in combat.

I think this is a pretty fair request.
Thanks

Regarding "early pullers", I only hate them if they cause a wipe. There are people like this in our server. They pull S ranks early just so their party can get full credits I suppose, but because they're not as great as they think they are, they die and people who are just coming in get picked off by the mob.

That said, trade-spam is low indeed. I agree that trade window should not be usable or TRADE should not be an option on an in-combat target.

Don't really feel bad for you at all. Knowing the high interest in hunts right now, you and your group probably could have continued spirit bonding and waited a few minutes for other groups to arrive. Seems pretty selfish that you decided to pull it by yourself.

Everyone has their own criteria for "early pull" and it's all nonsense (see post above mine), but that you could conduct trades while on an enmity list sounds like an oversight or bug.

I've also heard of people trade-spamming people so they can't teleport to the next hunt. Something needs to be done to be able to prevent that, too.

Some games have options to automatically reject trades and/or invites.

If stuff like this keeps up, I wouldn't be surprised to see it sneak into 2.55 or even 2.51

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Don't really feel bad for you at all. Knowing the high interest in hunts right now, you and your group probably could have continued spirit bonding and waited a few minutes for other groups to arrive. Seems pretty selfish that you decided to pull it by yourself.

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If you find the mob you aren't obligated to wait for dozens of other people to show up to kill it, especially since there's no guarantee you'll get full credit if you do so. And harassing someone because they pulled a hunt is not acceptable and reportable.

Quick fix?

Busy status makes you unavailable for trade.

...with so many restrictions on what actions can and cannot be executed while [whatever], I'm surprised trade is not one of those yet, tbh. o_O

Report them, this is an incredibly dickish move and falls under harassment, and they will do something about it. Don't let this attitude go unchecked people, make sure the GMs are aware of it.

Hunts, a poor attempt to make open world content at late game. They should just add an open world zone like a big dungeon with higher level mobs that require groups and random bosses "nm" to kill throughout the zone for seals and rewards. This kind of content breads behavior like this.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Don't really feel bad for you at all. Knowing the high interest in hunts right now, you and your group probably could have continued spirit bonding and waited a few minutes for other groups to arrive. Seems pretty selfish that you decided to pull it by yourself.

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Just to be clear, the fact that I was spirit bonding doesn't make me a "spirit bonder" (as in: spirit bonding is not the only thing I do in this game). While I don't enjoy being part of the server wide chase for hunts, if one pops up right beside me like that I am going to kill it. I have a right to enjoy all the content in the game just as everyone else does and I'm under no obligation to share hunt information or wait for others. Doing that would only lead to the kind of toxic situation I was trying to avoid (i.e. people getting mad because they didn't get there in time and there are always some of those no matter how long you wait).

Regardless, trade spam should be considered cheating (you are keeping a player from performing any actions and they could die/lose credit for the fight). There is no way you can justify it. The most selfish player in the world still does not deserve to be cheated.

Edit: I'd also like to add that I did report the player and blacklist them and I will do the same to anyone else who does behavior like this.

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Originally Posted by NaliaBrown

I've also heard of people trade-spamming people so they can't teleport to the next hunt. Something needs to be done to be able to prevent that, too.

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When I read the topic, this quote is what I thought it was going to be referring to. After actually reading the OP, I see that this is much worse. Something should definitely be done about being able to initiate a trade while in combat (i.e. make it not a thing)

Me and some of my buddies troll each other by stopping teleports of one another like this when another hunt is called.....but its just amongst us and we all get a good laugh out of it. I wouldn't do that to some random person just trying to get their seals....


But people also need to realize that it isn't the end of the damn world if they miss one hunt. (directed at the griefers and wishers of herpe-death)

I don't understand why this sort of abuse is still possible. Why has it been ignore by the devs?

A super easy fix to this problem is implementing a trade cooldown timer. So after you finish a trade or someone declines your trade, you need to wait a minute(or maybe even two minutes) to open another trade. It's not a big inconvenience to wait one or two minutes to make a trade if it's legit. The cooldown would give the abused the time they need to teleport away and etc.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Edit: I'd also like to add that I did report the player and blacklist them and I will do the same to anyone else who does behavior like this.

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I just wish they would prevent you from trading while in combat just as you say. Right now, the only temporary fix would be to either set your status to busy or blacklist said player. This did happen to me as well when trying to teleport between areas. It was problematic because at the time there were four people trying to lock me into the trade window preventing me from doing anything other than set my status to busy.

Please disable trading when in combat or doing actions such as teleporting or interacting with objects. This kind of behavior is disruptive. ;_;

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Don't really feel bad for you at all. Knowing the high interest in hunts right now, you and your group probably could have continued spirit bonding and waited a few minutes for other groups to arrive. Seems pretty selfish that you decided to pull it by yourself.

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That's ironic. People calling others who meet hunt marks pulling them selfish, because YOU didn't get seals from it. And by you, I didn't mean you personally, just generally. Everything is about selfishness, I don't think anyone would do hunts out of charity to help others, do we? People wanting seals from other hunts they haven't even bothered to hunt (funny, isn't it?) are as selfish as everyone else. You're getting profit for something you didn't work for, don't complain about it. When I get to a mark that I've heard from others, on linkshells or area shouts, I don't complain if I don't make it in time. I went there to leech seals and I knew it. Someone who met a mark and decided to attack it, have total right to do so, and by no means it is acceptable someone interfere on that gameplay just because. You're not entitled to kill every mark that spawns, you're not entitled to say who gets to kill the mark and who doesn't, by cheating and interfering in that person's gameplay with bad intentions. No matter how selfish, as you say, someone is, this isn't justified.

I'm on ps3 and i'm thankful for just getting seals when i can from hunts.
The load time is very slow when its prime time and 80% of the time the monster won't render till it is dead or half hp ( s ranks )
If i miss some its np but ofc i'll be a bit bummed but i'm not going to spam in shout being all salty so that "everyone" in the zone can hear about it.
Also i think its okay tht u guys pulled it as you guys were "originally" a sb group that happened to have a hunt spawn near them. Therefore u guys really shouldn't have to abide by telling everyone that there's a hunt there, it'd be different tho if u guys were a hunt party as it'd be courteous if u shared info as ppl would to you.

To people suggesting trades shouldn't be possible during combat, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's legitimate reasons to be able to trade with people in combat ("I forgot my food/meds, and we already started! Cans someone trade me a few? Thanks!").

The real issue is that the trade window interrupts actions. That is what should be corrected, not the ability to trade at all. If someone trades you, it should not interrupt your gameplay UNLESS you choose to accept the trade. FFXI did this well; each player had a "Trade" command, and if one person traded to another, absolutely nothing happened apart from a "Xxxx wishes to trade with you" message. The only way to accept the trade was to activate your own trade command in response. (It also had a cooldown period during which you can't initiate another trade if the first trade is refused.)

If I recall, there's a similar issue with RMT and friend requests, with RMT sending a friend request in order to prevent you from blacklisting them before they have a chance to log the character out. Really, popups of any kind should not be allowed to interfere with gameplay. In the OP's case, there should be the option to just ignore the popup and continue as usual, with the offender unable to initiate any further trades because the first was neither accepted nor refused.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

To people suggesting trades shouldn't be possible during combat, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's legitimate reasons to be able to trade with people in combat ("I forgot my food/meds, and we already started! Cans someone trade me a few? Thanks!").
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The only time it would be actually useful to trade during combat would be in raid, which isn't possible in instances anyways. If spirit bonding trading between pulls isn't going to kill you.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The real issue is that the trade window interrupts actions. That is what should be corrected, not the ability to trade at all. If someone trades you, it should not interrupt your gameplay UNLESS you choose to accept the trade. FFXI did this well; each player had a "Trade" command, and if one person traded to another, absolutely nothing happened apart from a "Xxxx wishes to trade with you" message. The only way to accept the trade was to activate your own trade command in response. (It also had a cooldown period during which you can't initiate another trade if the first trade is refused.)

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This is actually the first game that I played wherein Trades automatically pop up. Every other game that I played, I would have to confirm the trade first.

I wonder why Trade works this way in FFXIV? It's obnoxious tbh (Edit: Obnoxious because the Trade window is much bigger than a simple "x wants to trade with you" notification)

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

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Well done, that's how hunts are supposed to work, not the lot pinata the community turned them on, about the trade spam, that's harassment.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

The only time it would be actually useful to trade during combat would be in raid, which isn't possible in instances anyways. If spirit bonding trading between pulls isn't going to kill you.

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This is CURRENTLY true. It is my ongoing optimistic hope that future updates may begin adding overworld content hairy enough that things like meds and food will matter. S-ranked hunts were a step in the right direction, but are crippled by the simple fact that there's nothing they throw out that can't be weathered by a half-assed Full Party. Still, it gives me hope that someday overworld encounters may be added that only serious groups dare to try to tackle, where food and meds would be advisable, or even mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Neuflune

This is actually the first game that I played wherein Trades automatically pop up. Every other game that I played, I would have to confirm the trade first.

I wonder why Trade works this way in FFXIV? It's obnoxious tbh (Edit: Obnoxious because the Trade window is much bigger than a simple "x wants to trade with you" notification)

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I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally canceled a trade because someone started trading with me and I was in one of my menus and I hit the cancel button or something, trying to exit the menu, not the trade. I'm always like, "no! Try again! I didn't mean to cancel!" I think the whole trade system needs to be looked over.

All this crying over hunts just makes me laugh. No one owes anyone anything. No one is required to wait a specified amount of time to pull a mark. If you see a mark, have the ability to kill it... go for it. I highly doubt that when hunts were designed it was with the intention of the entire world coming to a halt so that everyone can get their whacks in.

You want to get all your credit? Be a better hunter. Find the marks faster than the others.

For the life of me I just do not understand the lack of competitive drive in this community. Everyone just wants to cash in their welfare check it seems. Sad state of affairs it is.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

If you find the mob you aren't obligated to wait for dozens of other people to show up to kill it, especially since there's no guarantee you'll get full credit if you do so. And harassing someone because they pulled a hunt is not acceptable and reportable.

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Happened to me yesterday. I found Kurrea while spiritbonding/farming and reported it to a hunt LS. Know what happened? A billion people showed up and nobody invited me to a party, so I got 4 seals for something I shared.

Next time I'll just grab a friend or 3 and take it on myself.

Yoshida experience trade spamming 1st hand, which prevented him from teleporting to a wedding he was invited to. So hopefully there'll be a setting that prevents strangers from trading with you.

I do hope they change this. In the meantime though... /busy will stop it instantly without the need to waste time blacklisting someone.

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

All this crying over hunts just makes me laugh. No one owes anyone anything. No one is required to wait a specified amount of time to pull a mark. If you see a mark, have the ability to kill it... go for it. I highly doubt that when hunts were designed it was with the intention of the entire world coming to a halt so that everyone can get their whacks in.

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^ This.

It's much appreciated when people announce the marks. In our server, even B-ranks are announced (occasionally) in case someone is looking for them, and when someone is about to kill a B-rank they announce it too; no one says to "please wait", they kill it. BUT people are not obligated to do that, and I've seen only a few people complain about "missing" marks. People who really dedicate themselves to hunting have their own LS or form a group and hunt on their own.

Someone did that crap to me when I was teleporting and it stopped me, then I tried to run away and they followed me.

I was about to tell them I was gonna report if they didn't cut it out, then they logged off after 2 minutes of ignoring them.

It was during the christmas event trying to go town to town to get the blue, red and yellow gems.

I've never had this happen to me while doing hunts on Tonberry. Has anyone experienced this on a JP server? Maybe this is limited to a few individuals on your servers?

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Don't really feel bad for you at all. Knowing the high interest in hunts right now, you and your group probably could have continued spirit bonding and waited a few minutes for other groups to arrive. Seems pretty selfish that you decided to pull it by yourself.

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Wow this is so silly.
If a group finds a hunt they can do whatever they want With it. Id recommend fighting it 8 man cause the fight will actually be a littlr challenging depending on A rank. If you call in other people usually a group turns up "pull at xx" and starts giving orders like they found it.

Thats when I shout "Garuda! I choose you!'
and let garuda do the pulling :3

Someone pulled the same stunt on me when I was trying to teleport when the old hunts were hot

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Happened to me yesterday. I found Kurrea while spiritbonding/farming and reported it to a hunt LS. Know what happened? A billion people showed up and nobody invited me to a party, so I got 4 seals for something I shared.

Next time I'll just grab a friend or 3 and take it on myself.

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that is sad yup and ppl not getting invited has been an issue from day 1 of hunts which is why I still say soloers should get full credit...period.
starting ones own party is not realistic no matter how fast you can click and inv in most cases as mobs are normally dying too fast.

i always join pt early and stay in one to do hunts and enjoy that and the ppl very much, but if solo i announce and move on as full credit isn't an option
even to change to tank class and try by the time the silly abilities rest (bad idea se) the mob is mostly dead as well

as for op ....that is indeed low of them to trade spam...tacky tacky to do to anyone

Some things that should be made known:

1. Report people who maliciously misuse game mechanics to interfere with others. Trade request prompts are designed in such a way that they are a ultimatum to ensure trade processes can be completed by bringing attention and focus to the process, almost undisturbed.

2. There is no set guideline on hunt etiquette in terms of fighting hunts, finding hunts, etc. While it is nice that people try to broaden the interest by making up fake rules and social mannerisms, it's a feature of the game. You and your party can take on the challenge however you want. It is not a form of griefing or malicious play in the sense as trade requests can be misused. Both fall in the category of "utilizing game features/mechanics however you want." But the difference is one is directly interfering while the other is indirectly.

3. Report every single occurrence that you were affected by. While it is unclear as to what level of penalization each reported individual is currently at based on account history, if your account shows a solid history of evidential harassment, Support Desk GMs should have a policy to better your situation in some way. So even if you think authorities won't do anything (or won't do enough), consider how it would look from the other side. "Oh look, this one person is being picked on by ALL of these others." Your latest harassers won't know what they're getting themselves into.

Don't worry guys, the new Monster Hunter is out soon. Then you can get a real hunt going.

SE learned absolutely nothing from when hunts were first introduced,
nothing at all.
It's the same shit all over again.

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Originally Posted by Purrfectstorm

Well another party arrived and while their tank was trying to get hate from me another member began to trade spam me so I could not perform any actions.

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Typing /busy in chat will fix that instantly for you ;)

And - what they did is a reportable offence as they disrupt other player's game.

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Originally Posted by chrillix

Don't really feel bad for you at all. Knowing the high interest in hunts right now, you and your group probably could have continued spirit bonding and waited a few minutes for other groups to arrive. Seems pretty selfish that you decided to pull it by yourself.

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such a jerky remark it popped right by them they were there they had every right to pull it.

Remember people no one has the right for elit hunt marks.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

If you find the mob you aren't obligated to wait for dozens of other people to show up to kill it, especially since there's no guarantee you'll get full credit if you do so. And harassing someone because they pulled a hunt is not acceptable and reportable.

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I was thinking about that if that's against the ToS.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

If you find the mob you aren't obligated to wait for dozens of other people to show up to kill it, especially since there's no guarantee you'll get full credit if you do so.

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SE would do well to change it to one hit = full credit. It's the scaled credit that is causing people to "pull early" and cuss out others. Need to buff the hp on hunt marks again, too.