Does something need to be done about Vote Abandon?

This is a discussion.

After running world of darkness 20 times last night and not getting a single win, I think it's time to ask this question. Does vote abandon need some adjustments?

I think it just ridiculous that I wasn't able to get a win last night not because we couldn't win but because people are toxic little trolls. I had one party disband w/ 40 minutes left on CoD just because two people in the run were loud mouths.

It dosnt need changing cause the only way a vote abandon would happen is if more then half of the group wants to do so thus majority rules.

If most people actually want to leave (i.e. they vote yes) then there's not really much to be done about that. :/

But what's irritating as hell is when the group clearly wants to keep going forward, yet there's one or two annoying little trolls that will keep trying to vote abandon over and over thinking they are going to magically change the party's mind. I actually just made a thread about this not long ago.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

If most people actually want to leave (i.e. they vote yes) then there's not really much to be done about that. :/

But what's irritating as hell is when the group clearly wants to keep going forward, yet there's one or two annoying little trolls that will keep trying to vote abandon over and over thinking they are going to magically change the party's mind. I actually just made a thread about this not long ago.

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This i can agree with, if votekick has a 4 hour cooldown then vote abandon should have one aswell.

Yeah i experienced this myself last night. I, of course, clicked no because WoD was what I was looking forward to the most in this patch only to have annoying little sh*ts give up just like that! I mean c'mon ppl!!! :mad:

still pretty upset about it!

lol...I havnt done WoD yet. I hope its not SO hard that people give up really fast. Vote adandon can be good in times where the KEY roles cant do the fight (Healer, Tanks and yes DPS). Trolls can be the main reason for most Adandon votes. Sometimes its just better to re Q and hope you get a better team.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

This i can agree with, if votekick has a 4 hour cooldown then vote abandon should have one aswell.

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This is the kinda change I'm looking for. That and who is proposing the vote. But if you get a one off on a vote. knowing who is proposing is moot.

But how do you get a better team on not even (at the time) one day old content. It's hard to learn a fight when you keep having the fight end because people just quit.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

I hope its not SO hard that people give up really fast.

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It really isn't as bad as a lot of people are claiming it to be. More or less WoD does inherit some of the mechanics present in the pre-nerf Second Coil of Bahamut - albiet weaker and can be recovered from. So, I understand why people would get mad at abandoning in the middle of the raid since the mechanics punish you for not paying attention or executing them properly. It would be annoying being shoved back into the queue after that whole ordeal of going through most of WoD.

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Originally Posted by Haibel

But how do you get a better team on not even (at the time) one day old content. It's hard to learn a fight when you keep having the fight end because people just quit.

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True, If I feel that the group is good and willing to stick it out I'll stay. This moring in Shiva Ex with mostly first timer, I was the one to tell them they could WIN! and not to give up. I've beaten the fight 20 times so far. It took 6 tries to clear Shiva Ex with this group but it was worth it to me. Some players will stick it out.

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Originally Posted by Haibel

But how do you get a better team on not even (at the time) one day old content. It's hard to learn a fight when you keep having the fight end because people just quit.

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Because quitters will always quit. Frankly they feel everybody needs to do it the way they say or else. Secondly toxic people will always be toxic now matter how nice you are. Best thing to do is ignore them. Let them grumble...just keep pressing on and remain positive.

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Originally Posted by FranSeara

True, If I feel that the group is good and willing to stick it out I'll stay. This moring in Shiva Ex with mostly first timer, I was the one to tell them they could WIN! and not to give up. I've beaten the fight 20 times so far. It took 6 tries to clear Shiva Ex with this group but it was worth it to me. Some players will stick it out.

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This right here....i do the same thing. I always tell folks we got this, or to remain positive. Its a team, and last thing we need as a team is somebody telling us how we will lose.

Thanks AdamFyi, I 've had WoD in my Q for 2 days now but I keep getting Shiva Ex. lol, still havnt gotten that Smn book!!!

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

It dosnt need changing cause the only way a vote abandon would happen is if more then half of the group wants to do so thus majority rules.

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Which doesn't mean that the time of those who are willing to stay, and finish off the dungeon with new players who are willing to join an in progress dungeon, has to be completely wasted.

Using vote abandon definitely ranks #1 by far on the most selfish acts which can be taken within an instance.

I agree that vote abandon should have a cooldown time so it can't keep getting spammed by one or two upset people.

That being said, it has a purpose. If the majority of your party and is fed up, would you rather that they just leave and you spend 30+ min finding replacements while twiddling your thumbs? At least with vote abandon, the instance is closed, you get back out into the world to work on other quests/crafting/etc while the next party forms. And I agree that people tend to be dumbs about using it -- if someone wants to abandon after a single wipe, they need to cool their jets. New content is new content, not farm content (yet). I once had a party vote abandon on Titan HM right after the echo was added (it was a wipe past heart phase, so obviously, it would have been doable after another try or two, no major fails in the group). When the vote was declined, the upset folks left; we got new dps in and killed it next go. Phooey on them!

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Originally Posted by Chevrefoil

I agree that vote abandon should have a cooldown time so it can't keep getting spammed by one or two upset people.

That being said, it has a purpose. If the majority of your party and is fed up, would you rather that they just leave and you spend 30+ min finding replacements while twiddling your thumbs?

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I really don't think anybody is saying get rid of Vote Dismiss. But the Vote spam needs to stop or at least tell us who is proposing it so we can kick for harassment.

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Originally Posted by Donarudo

Because quitters will always quit. Frankly they feel everybody needs to do it the way they say or else. Secondly toxic people will always be toxic now matter how nice you are. Best thing to do is ignore them. Let them grumble...just keep pressing on and remain positive.

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I agree that quitters always quit but I've seen it too many times that you can be nice to toxic people and they at least won't be toxic towards you. But yeah you hit it on the head, keep pressing on and remain positive! :)

Personally I think they need to add a cooldown for individual players using vote abandon. Most of the time that I've seen vote abandon abuse, it's one or two crybabies spamming it.

If they made it so individual players could only initiate a vote abandon once every 5 or 10 minutes then the spam/abuse would probably be mitigated quite a bit.

If there's a legitimate reason to vote abandon then more than one person could still initiate it several times but in all honesty, if it's been rejected then the majority has already spoken.

Working as intended. If the majority wants to abandon the dungeon, the majority should speak for the group.

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Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Working as intended. If the majority wants to abandon the dungeon, the majority should speak for the group.

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Being spammed by a single person is not intended.

People don't want to man up and eat a penalty for rage quitting.

Are people struggling on WoD? Me and mostly other new players did it last night no worries. The first boss was a little tricky but otherwise a safe difficulty.... What exactly are people dying on if you don't mind me asking..?

Although I'm on a jp server. The skill level on NA servers seems to be much worse than on a jp datacenter. (Used to be on exodus)

I don't mean to insult btw, I know NA players can be just as good, But usually.... not..lol

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

Although I'm on a jp server. The skill level on NA servers seems to be much worse than on a jp datacenter. (Used to be on exodus)

I don't mean to insult btw, I know NA players can be just as good, But usually.... not..lol

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I am going to concur with this. The main difference I see on a JP server is they tend to not place blame. If you die they rez you quick and we move on. Many times I have been in DR with JP and I swear we were going to wipe, but we recover. In all fairness I see this on NA servers as well. That said I think people tend to dwell to much on the things that really just don't matter.

Doesn't need adjustment because more then half of the people have to agree to abandon. If its that bad to warrant half the people to click yes then its working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Chevrefoil

I agree that vote abandon should have a cooldown time so it can't keep getting spammed by one or two upset people.

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It already does. You can only use it once ever 5+ min, it might even be 10 min I didn't test it a lot. Its different people clicking the vote thing not 1 or 2 people.

majority of people have trouble with 1st and last bosses...

1st boss is pretty basic if u know how to avoid doom altogether when u see the boss casting the doom skill turn around so your backs to it = doom will always miss.. did a run last night so many were wiping cause they were to slow removing doom.. once i suggested that not 1 person died in the whole group next attempt lol

In a way it's SE behaviour who caters to people who are new to MMO's way too much. All the content that were "too hard" according to a vocal minority, got nerfed (not talking about "outdated" content nerfs).

Some people wanted harder 24man content. They indeed tried and I think they've done a good job. It's still very casual from a raider's point of view, but a baby step in the right direction.

The thing I noticed was how many people (on patch day), just wanted to rush through it, yelling at other people for not knowing what to do (I did it 1,5 hours after the server came up), trying to boss people around and what not. Of course, this behaviour is just laughable acutally, but it's also what has been the trend this past year for FFXIV: make it accessible for new players, too hard = nerf.

I hope 3.0's normal and hard mode for raids are a start.

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Originally Posted by Fornix

Which doesn't mean that the time of those who are willing to stay, and finish off the dungeon with new players who are willing to join an in progress dungeon, has to be completely wasted.

Using vote abandon definitely ranks #1 by far on the most selfish acts which can be taken within an instance.

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Alltho i agree with you one way or another if people want to leave the duty without penalty they will, if not from a vote abandon then sitting down and do nothing till they get kicked or so would also be their option.

That said what i would like to see is that IF a vote abandon succeds then the people voted yes should be automaticly removed and those who voted no should remain or have a popup message asking if they want to leave aswell or stay.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

It already does. You can only use it once ever 5+ min, it might even be 10 min I didn't test it a lot. Its different people clicking the vote thing not 1 or 2 people.

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Is there already a timer like that? I never really thought to check. If there is then there's no problem since it would take many people to spam, and if lost of people are soamming, then there's a good chance it's the majority and it will pass anyway. If there's not many, then it can't be spammed and won't pass. That sounds reasonable to me. If there is no delay then a simple 3-5 min delay between same person initiating abandon would be fine.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

It dosnt need changing cause the only way a vote abandon would happen is if more then half of the group wants to do so thus majority rules.

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I'm pretty sure it only takes half, and not a majority. Personally, I think it really should require a unanimous consensus. Either that, or at least let the people who didn't agree to abandon remain there to pick up new players to fill the places of those who left. Why should those who never agreed to abandon it lose their run as well just because a couple other people couldn't be bothered to finish what they started.

(Last time I lost a run this way had nothing to do with difficulty of the run. It was a story-mode Brayflox run we were breezing through with no problems at all, but about 3/4 of the way through, one of the players declared it was getting late and she was tired of playing, another said yeah me too, and together they ended our run, knocking me and the fourth player out before reaching the last two chests. Really frustrating after waiting in a long queue to get in. I thought it quite rude to use Abandon like that, when they should have just used Leave when it was themselves and not the run that had the problem.)

Vote abandon can lead to abuse in 4 person instances, especially where you get matched up with a pre-formed party. Case in point, last week I ran Low Level Roulette on my NIN I was levelling, and after I'd spent 45 min waiting the queue finally popped. The other DPS and Healer kept trolling and running ahead of the tank and pulling the entire room and wiping us. I'm finally like- you do realize I had to queue for almost an hour for this to level up right? They finally stop and we clear the first room, and they do it a couple of times and then we get through second boss, and at this point I've wasted time before the dungeon, and time during the dungeon. There's enough time to finish it but then they just vote abandon it after we down the second boss and all that time to get the exp for finishing that dungeon was wasted. Had to queue up all over again and wait on a new party.

This is the type of situation where we should be able to identify characters by name with a screenshot or vid link and not get in trouble for violating the name & shame policy. Maybe they didn't technically break the rules but it was intentional harrassment by wasting my time.

Personally, I wish that if a vote abandon was successful, those who voted to not abandon get to stay there and re-queue for more people (or can leave with no penalty). Also, there should be a minimum delay of about 10 minutes after a failed abandon vote before anyone can call for a vote, and the same person has to wait about 30 minutes before they can call for another one.

But wouldn't this lead to another problem? All but one person votes no for abandon. The lone person who voted no would be ushered out by the game and suffer no penalty for it, leading the way for others to avoid rage quit penalties.

Vote Abandon is fine the way it is except for one thing...
It should identify who's initiating the vote so those who abuse it can be identified and kicked for harassment.

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Originally Posted by Haibel

This is a discussion.

After running world of darkness 20 times last night and not getting a single win, I think it's time to ask this question.

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I hope this is hyperbole.
like really?
20?

I think my question would be..
"Should I be playing this game?"

I havent done WoD yet but am looking forward to it. I miss reading the rage and sarcasm in the comments after a wipe. Always makes me laugh.

Its so funny that people quit after 1 or 2 wipes in a brand new content where people are still polishing and figuring out the tactics.
I bet that most people who initiate a vote abandon are people who are looking for a group that already knows it and can get carried through it.
If not they would actually stay and try to learn for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Logo

I hope this is hyperbole.
like really?
20?

I think my question would be..
"Should I be playing this game?"

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Yes it was 20 times and it had nothing to do with me. I was Nearly the last person to died in almost all wipes.
there is only so much one person can do with wipe mechanics that involve multiple people. Your response really
type casts you as the typically rage quitting / vote dismissing dick that whines any chance they can.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Either that, or at least let the people who didn't agree to abandon remain there to pick up new players to fill the places of those who left. Why should those who never agreed to abandon it lose their run as well just because a couple other people couldn't be bothered to finish what they started.

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This, basically. Every instance vote abandon has been used outside of primal fights, I would have vastly preferred to have the option to stay in the dungeon to wait for new players. Even in a situation where I DON'T want to wait for new players, and would want to leave immediately it's still not a problem. In this case, the group is not full, so I can leave without penalty anyway.