I recently rejoined the game and feel the game has made good progress over the past year. That said the current Guildleve system creates a huge barrier to actually playing the game with everything in its current state. I've been able to hit 24 on one character and at this point I'm effectively stuck. Guildleves really seem the single best SP source in the game, but you are available in such limited quantity that you can't level on them alone. This leaves behests, party grinding, or solo grinding. Behests and party grinding are great, but with the population in the game at it's current state they aren't really viable at this level. I don't think anybody wants to sit and shout in town for hours trying to get a party invite. It ruins the fun of the game. Behests also could be fun, but at this level it's rare to ever see another player doing them. That makes doing appropriate level ones difficult. So that leaves solo grinding which is neither fun, nor efficient at leveling.
So my feeling is that the timer on guildleves should be shortened to 1-2hrs, or completely removed with random leves being accessible whenever you exchange a completed one. The rewards can be almost completely removed and it wouldn't matter so long as the level experience is improved. This is almost necessary to keep new players coming into the game since it will continue to be difficult to find parties to grind out SP at these levels. The server populations just don't seem to be large enough to support that kind of play style.
Guildleves create a barrier to new players
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08-19-2011, 04:12 AMHinotoriGuildleves create a barrier to new players
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08-19-2011, 04:34 AMDenmo
First off: Join a linkshell. Your major complaint seems to stem from a lack of people to party up with. Dev's aren't worried about that right now. For one the game is free, and two, it's 15 bucks at Gamestop. Invite some friends. Make your own linkshell. Remake your character in a more populated server (oh noooo, you say to me, those 24 ranks took me FOREVER /sarcasm).
Secondly: 1-2 hours? No. Not likely going to happen. At best I can see them allowing for unused guildleves to be stored up for use on a day that people have time for. Your character's rate of growth is something that's closely monitored by the dev team. They're not about to make it so everyone can get to rank 50 in a couple days (which is what will happen at 1-2 hour guildleve refresh).
Thirdly: If you find yourself unable to do the 6 rank 30 guildleves on your own, and you refuse to party up with people around you, might I suggest you beef up your other jobs a bit? They're full of abilities that can help you survive better. And it doesn't take more than day's worth of guildleves to get 3 to ~rank 10.
Fourth: Join a linkshell. The dev's aren't going to spoonfeed you this game if you refuse to utilize what's there for you. -
08-19-2011, 05:48 AMSeraviEdalborez
Tough it out. If you find yourself soloing, remember that stuff you can kill quickly for "ok" SP will far outstrip big numbers that you need a minute or two to kill. Earns more money this way too, depending on what you fight.
Seconding Denmo for the most part. The first 24 levels are almost too quick anyways due to the innate low-rank-SP-boost. -
08-19-2011, 12:27 PMMariyaShidou
Look at it this way, if they are going to allow unlimited Guildleves, then the SP and gil reward will be severely lowered to match its effect and in the end you have an even more grindy game. They are, for all intention, not going to make this a game where you can easily hit the cap in a week or so.
However, they are going to allow you to store leve coupons when you're not online during the reset, and you can do your whole week worth of Leves at weekend. That way, casual players who only play at weekends will be able to get as much benefit as someone who log on every day without having to do so. -
08-19-2011, 08:17 PMHinotori
I've read about the leve coupon storage in the next patch. Maybe with the travel options coming in also it won't be as bad, but they never mentioned adding additional leves available at one time. So you're still stuck with the 3 level 20 leves per city. 20-25 you don't have access to the level 30 leves yet, so that limits the options.
I understand there are some level 50's with strong opinions on this, but my perspective is one of a new character. I don't really appreciate the unfriendly snipes. This is just what it feels like as a player entering the game, which is something the Dev's should be most concerned with right now. Finding a linkshell that actually has enough people at the level you are wanting to party at is not as easy as it seems. What you think of with a linkshell is how awesome it is to have a bunch of level 50's willing to do NM's and stuff. Of course there are people appropriate to your level...it's where everyone ends up eventually. While you say this would make leveling "too easy", you don't just level 1 job in this game. In the end you will want to pick up abilities from several jobs which effectively multiplies the number of levels you have to gain.
If the game creates these feelings in new players, it is going to continue to have difficulty gaining new players. While several things can be done to improve that experience, I really feel giving greater access to leves would be the best benefit. If the concern is about not having access to quick reward quests every day, then leave the current leves in place and add a less limited set that lacks gold/marks rewards.
Also, how is this making leveling "too easy". A good grind party can already make a level an hour. 8 guildleves/hr is not going to be any faster than that. It will just be an alternative for when there aren't enough people on to support a party. This supports new players joining until that time happens. -
08-19-2011, 09:01 PMPerrin_Aybarra
the limitation and reset seems fine to me, on top of it the ticket system will make it even better.
Plus I will suggest this. If the rank 30 leves are not available to you yet (when you get those you'll have 6 per city since there are 2 camps) then you can do the rank 20 leves and pick up the rank 10 leves which you can do at 5 stars difficulty. They will still give you about the same SP as a 1 star leve level 20.
You have to use what is given to you and stop complaining about things that doesn't really need to be fixed. -
08-19-2011, 10:27 PMArchadius
The 5-star speed and difficulty bonus is a Godsend. Couple it with Guardian's Aspect and you will gain ranks like crazy at any level.
Also, something to keep in mind for "speed" purposes is that you only need to fulfill the requirements listed, you don't have to "kill everything that pops". In some leves this is crucial to getting that speed bonus. Seriously, if all you have access to right now is r10 and r20 leves, try doing the r10's on 5 star and the r20's on 4-5 star. Use the method I suggested. Pop stuff and run away if the leve doesn't require that the monsters be killed. The bonus will be well worth it. I consistently earned 50k+ SP on a r45+ MRD doing 6 leves in roughly an hour, maybe two, SOLO, having a party makes it even more of a joke. At lower ranks this will be even faster due to the high SP gains and how easy monsters are pre-30.
Hope that helps. -
08-20-2011, 12:31 AMHinotori
I'm pretty sure doing a 4-5 star is near impossible even for the level 10's in the lower 20's unless you have a really high physical level. As a THM a level 20 2 star is dangerous and I can easily get 2 shotted by mobs even with VIT as my second highest stat and current level gear. Disregarding feedback and complaining how someone "isn't using every possible tool" is not going to help get new blood into the game. People starting are not going to have great linkshells or the ability to do leves on 5 star difficulties solo. It's a system that is frustrating. Right now it's do the few available leves at 20 and 10 then log out. If the game was costing money with this system, I wouldn't be playing. I'm pretty sure that's how many starting players would feel.
Given that Square needs to get new players in, the opinion of someone in my position is worth more than the feelings of those who are high level and established. I'm sure things are better after 30 when I can actually do the level 30 leves (I hit 25 and attempted the 30 leves, and that is completely impossible to solo at this level with my character for a while. 2x lvl 35 mobs in each pull mean that I get 2 shotted). But getting to 30 is a problem with the poor access to leves which is the frustration.
Feel free to continue to express your irritation that a player who is new has a different opinion of the system than you do at your higher levels. I just don't think it's in the best interest of getting new players. -
08-20-2011, 01:35 AMSeraviEdalborezThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra
I will say that if you're a THM, invest in a shield if you haven't already. Aegis Boon is practically 15 seconds of invincibility + free healing against regular attacks (use a shield with a Blocking stat of at least 80, doesn't matter if it's under or overleveled).
Spend time getting some melee classes to 12ish. There are a lot of useful low-end abilities that will make your life easier. Second Wind from Pugilist is especially useful; turn 250 TP into ~300 HP every 45 seconds. Featherfoot at 12 PGL is 1 free dodge every minute. Invigorate at 14 LNC is free TP in battle every ~1:30.
From your mage classes, Punishing Barbs, Repose (see next line break), Poison (any Damage over Time spells), and Spiritbind (if you have MP issues) are things to consider if you haven't already.
Even if enemies having ranged attacks seems to defeat the purpose of bind, most of them are slower and weaker than their regular auto-attacks. Bind wears off when (non-DoT) damage is dealt, but otherwise lasts quite a while.
On leves with multiple enemies, abuse the fact that you have AOE casting.
Plug in your points to VIT for more HP, a little MND for more MP. Practically DEX and PIE will do almost nothing, and STR/INT don't provide high boosts. Until they remove physical, at least.
You are not limited to leves. Grinding (something you can kill easily and quickly even if the reward sucks) at least makes you money, even selling to npcs. Fur/hides go for a fair bit.
Take something from this, as exasperated as it may sound. You're not doing it "wrong", but you could be doing it a lot less painfully. In what way are the leves "impossible" to solo? Running out of MP, or getting killed in like 3 hits? -
08-20-2011, 01:44 AMAeyis
No need to get so hostile guys, the OP brings forth a valid argument.
Also no need for posting suggestions as to how the OP should be playing the game.
That's just showing how terrible you are at reading posts, and how good at missing the point entirely. -
08-20-2011, 01:56 AMPerrin_AybarraLook, i am honestly not trying to call you down or judge your playstyle, but instead of crying about the leves maybe you need to adjust your tactic. THM are very powerfull even if it's your only class. It is actually very easy to do a level 10 leve with 5 stars when you are a level 20 THM. Please, learn to play your class, adjust your startegy before requesting a change in the way leves work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinotori
I solo leves all the time, I did not have a shell until I got level 25-26 and I found that getting to 30 was easy and fast with just leves and quests/story missions. Not saying that my feedback is better than yours, but the system works fine as it is, soloing 5 star rank 10 leves is more than doable when you are level 20. -
08-20-2011, 01:59 AMPerrin_AybarraNo, his point is not valid. The leve system works fine, the sp adjustment they did is working nicely. The fact that they are putting in a ticket system to be able to stock up on leves and mass do them on the weekend or when you got time just invalidates his point, and that is why we are making suggestions to improve the number of leves he can do which is more than we can say about your post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
If we were being hostile we would just call him down and not make suggestions... -
08-20-2011, 05:48 AMAeyisExcept that you are effectively telling him that he doesnt know what hes talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrin_Aybarra
Which seems real strange since he clearly presents his thoughts as his opinion,
his personal experience on the game and how he believes others might feel the same.
Your basically telling him: ''your wrong, heres some suggestions so that you can learn to play better''
But tbh i dont expect someone with your forum name to be keen on knowing how to listen to people. :P
Know your absolutely right about the leve stacking being implemented, thats also what i first thought about when i read his post.
However if you believe it is indeed a large improvement over the current system and will fix his problems, then just go out and say that, and only that. xD
Anything else isnt really advice~
Note that telling him to learn to play his class when obviously his new (you know, where we all start at?)
is the defination of hostility. :p
I personally could not do those things you mention off the bat when i started, however i decided to level all classes to 10+ and being a well experience mmo/other game veteran i could do so not long after.
This does not mean its easy to learn period and that anyone who cant do it needs to l2p.
To validate my point, have you ever soloed the rank ''10'' dodo leve at drybone at 5 stars while being rank 20? -
08-20-2011, 06:00 AMPerrin_AybarraHmm you are right, I went completely off and was a bit out of place by telling him to adjust his tactics. However I don't know what you are trying to imply with yourQuote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
I might have been wrong in the way I tried to help OP, but you are not much better by saying stuff like that.Quote:
tbh i dont expect someone with your forum name to be keen on knowing how to listen to people. :P
Anyways, to answer your question, no I have not soloed that leve as I started in gridania and stayed in that area except for story quests. But I did solo other leves on 5 stars while I was rank 20, and I'll even say that I did solo 5 stars rank 10 leves while I was level 17-20 as a Conjurer and as a THM (to be fair, on my THM I had more physical levels since I had CON leveled up already)
anyways, sorry if what I said upset you, the fact remains that you can get plenty of SP with leves at any level and it will even be better with the ticket system. The OP ask for more leves or a faster reset, for which I said and will say again since you think that I can't read, that the leve reset timer is fine the way it is. -
08-22-2011, 01:16 PMAeyis
It was a snipe at Perrin, i never much liked the way hes bad at listening to people. xD Otherwise hes great tho! He does deal with a lot of rather annoying characters after all lol, so maybe its a good quality of his~
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08-22-2011, 10:04 PMFrein
May I suggest doing local leves, as well? It takes me several hours to do all my leves each reset and I don't feel that there is a need to shorten the cycle at all. If it was shorter, I would never have time to do anything else. Also, battlecraft leves have such absurd SP bonuses that if we could grind them non-stop, we would indeed be able to go 1-50 in a few days.
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08-22-2011, 10:46 PMPerrin_Aybarralol yeah ok, I thought it was something like that but wasn't too sure, good snipe though :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Aeyis
Edit: Also, when I read back my comments I do feel that I was kinda harsh and maybe almost out of place. I just hate when people request changes in a system that works fine when clearly they just need to experiment a little more. The fact remains that even at level 20, doing the leves of level 10 at 5 stars is viable and really easy until you get high enough to start tackling the level 30 leves. -
08-25-2011, 10:58 PMHinotori
Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is the way it should be. You "can" level in the current system, but it is often terrible and frustrating. My point is how this system is discouraging to anyone starting out in the game. Sure, once physical levels are done with things might get easier (or more likely harder for anyone who's physical level is even 1 level higher than the job). Level 30 leves are near impossible because I will die in literally 2 waves of attacks from the leve spawns. With stoneskin and protect I am able to take SOME of the level 30 leves at 26. This is going all-out nuke and in a perfect world I will kill them before that third attack. This is with a large amount of my points in VIT. The 3 level 20 leves in an area are not much total xp for a day long reset, and the level 10 leves at 5 stars are worth almost nothing (less than 500 sp for all the kills and completion) because of the "it's not recommended you do these outside the optimal range" penalty.
Now I'm not saying anything about the level 30+ experience because I'm not there yet. It is entirely possible that when you get to 30 and those leves start becoming easy that the game changes. Pre-30 the level experience is terrible and makes even a dedicated fan of the franchise question sticking through it.
Also, you should realize that I'm not asking for help in squeezing that 10% more out in a day to make the grind a little more bearable. I'm pointing out that I'm not a heavily dedicated grinder and probably a pretty typical moderate MMO player. I saw the changes to the game, felt it was better and was playing a lot. Hit the 20's and starting having problems where I didn't feel there were enough leves to keep the leveling process smooth and can't find parties at this level easily because of the lack of players or whatever. I stopped playing more than logging in once every day or so to do the leves. If the game cost anything to play I would have canceled because of the experience and having no way to know that it improves at later levels. If I'm feeling this way you can assume that others are too and THAT is bad for the game. -
08-26-2011, 05:25 AMFrein
Even in the 40-50 stretch you can get at least half a rank every reset from your battlecraft leves and 20 aspect points. I can't imagine it being much worse in the 20s. Exactly how quickly do you expect to rank up?
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08-26-2011, 06:51 AMHinotori
That seems fine for 40-50. At 20 it is about the same because you only have 3 per city and the level 10 ones stop giving decent rewards after you exceed their level range. You also have very little else you can do in this range because of the lack of low level parties. This is where the problem comes in. Solo grinding is terrible xp, behests don't have anyone else doing them at this range either so you can only do them if you can solo them, etc. Add to that the 3 leves per city in this range and all 8 would not even give a level plus is more than the anima you would have. That part will at least be better after the transportation patch.
I would expect that 1-2 levels per day or 1.5 days would be more appropriate, but that also would include the ability to actually party which is missing at these levels. You end up feeling stuck because of the lack of opportunity to advance and that makes the game discouraging to play. -
08-27-2011, 01:18 AMFreinI visit every city on every reset just to do my local leves and I don't run out of anima despite usually teleporting from one region to another. I'm sure your anima reserves will be fine even if you do the appropriate level battlecraft leves for each city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hinotori
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10-05-2011, 02:19 PMTunaTime
If you find soloing SP slow, check out this guide . I made it to rank 22 THM (with access to rank 22 CJN skills) in about 10hours without doing any battlecraft leves.
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10-06-2011, 05:26 AMPaynesGreySorry to say but after 1.19 that guide requires a lot of reworking. I used it pre-patch to get few classes to the 20s, but it's not going to work anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by TunaTime
I know you were trying to be helpful and all, but guiding players to use that level guide isn't doing any good atm. If you haven't tried yet, I suggest you go ahead and try to kill a mob around 10 levels higher than you (the recommended enemy level in the guide) and see how it turns out.
So yeah, many great guides need to be made from scratch. -
10-06-2011, 06:41 AMTunaTime
La Norscea:
lvl 20 - 22 : Giant Crab
Location: 37-38 / 23
Farmed here from 21 to 25. Gonna stay here until level 26 and then move to Gullperch Tower until level 27. 1 - 2 shotting the Crabs with profundity + fire II / Blizzard II.
From there on I plan to....
Go to Coerthas from The Black Shroud at level 27. There's Arbiters in the beginning of the zone. They are between level 27 and 29. There's also does level 28 - 29.
At level 30 / 31 move to Nanawa Mines. Level 30 - 34 mobs there.
Insert guildleves whenever you want to
Haven't figured out what to do after that :-)
Hope this helps.