About Kicked individuals returning to the same instance...

I have a FC mate very upset at a situation that was imposed on them.

A very verbal tank found through Duty Finder was kicked from the group after preforming VERY questionable pulling practices (Pulling an entire group in Halitali from entrance to boss and locking the monsters in the boss zone with the players, exiting out themselves).


The group then kicked the member who promptly re-queued and returned to the very same party that kicked them.

I recall this being an issue presented by the community before, but I did not know if there was any word on the matter. Is it possible for me to get an update to see if this is something the Developers would be willing to fix. It's very upsetting to have to repeatedly deal with a person whom you've already agreed to kick within the group moments after just kicking them.

While not encountered frequently, such bad experiences may be enough to drive players away - as I am found right now attempting to calm my FC mate down who is saying, flat out, that he does not wish to support SE if this matter isn't resolved.

I see multiple possible solutions to this matter. Have blacklisting be account-based and not server based, and players who are on one another blacklists are not paired. While questionable in implementation, a cool-down period for queuing (something small, like five to ten minutes?) Could be implemented to players who are kicked from instances, to better enable a replacement of a different player into duty. Or simply disabling someone from rejoining the same instance they have been kicked from (though this may require some more in-depth coding, but will probably be optimal if it is done.)

If there is a planned fix on the way, I would like to be made aware of it so I can reassure my FC mate of such and keep him here with us. He's well loved in our FC and I know there'd be a pretty strong hit to our FC's morale if he were to leave over this issue. Any response officially (Or even a link to an official response I've overlooked) would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time.

other than flat out not allowing a player to re-enter the same instanced they were kicked from, there isn't much they can do.

the whole can't be paired with blacklisted players gets complicated and makes ques very long, seeing how once you start adding in everyones blacklist the number of players that could be paired is greatly decreased.

a player kicked shouldn't get a penalty as there are plenty of vote kick abuses and someone getting a penalty because of trolls is not the way to go.

the best i can say (even though its not the best solution) just kick the player if said player returns kick again and proceed to leave before anyone joins so you may avoid the 30 minute penalty.
but like i said its not the best but its a ok temp till something is done (if anything at all)

I agree. A penalty would open up venues of abuse. However, limiting the person who is kicked not to join the same instance/group is reasonable and probably under the scope of good practice. We recently experienced something similar in a duty finder turn 7 where the tank just had a really bad attitude. After various attempts to get the person to just calm down and stop with the harrasment of particular party members the group decided to kick him/her. The person requeued and joined the same party and then AFk'd.

So we did what anyone in our position would do. We 7 man'd it.

Classy stuff.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

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Yes, but that still penalizes the player that queues up with good intentions and is forced to reset their instance (possibly losing their Adventurer in Need bonus as well.) on account of a single individual who took it among themselves to misbehave.

As far as Vote Kick abuse, that can be reported and a 5 - 10 minute penalty is minor compared to the 30minute penalty of someone who is kicked from Frontlines.

With so much reliant on instances to accomplish things. Waiting for friends to have a 'safe' instance becomes increasingly counterproductive, and with the lack of tools in place, the few bad apples in the community can leave a strong, lasting negative impression upon players. I'm just worried about the long term impacts of this, as it's straining my members at this point.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

As far as Vote Kick abuse, that can be reported

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"Differences in playstyle caveat means I can kick anyone I want" crew incoming in 3, 2, 1...

People posted screencaps of GMs telling them that you can kick people out of a duty for any reason but denying them of loot is not ok.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

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to me it's a lose/lose either way good players are being punished for what bad players do and which they will not stop doing as there is no 100% way to stop this, a penalty will get rid of them ever being able to rejoin (unless dead period and you don't get a replacement in time) but when the same thing happens to good players they have to wait to reque. so it really comes down to which way you would rather have it.

now i will say you can report players who reque and screw things over. afking on purpose to hinder the group is reportable, griefing is reportable.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

other than flat out not allowing a player to re-enter the same instanced they were kicked from, there isn't much they can do.

the whole can't be paired with blacklisted players gets complicated and makes ques very long, seeing how once you start adding in everyones blacklist the number of players that could be paired is greatly decreased.

a player kicked shouldn't get a penalty as there are plenty of vote kick abuses and someone getting a penalty because of trolls is not the way to go.

the best i can say (even though its not the best solution) just kick the player if said player returns kick again and proceed to leave before anyone joins so you may avoid the 30 minute penalty.
but like i said its not the best but its a ok temp till something is done (if anything at all)

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Considering that other MMOs prevent a kicked player from returning to the group that kicked them, this is very much doable. Any reasoning at all from SE or anyone else for as to why they can't or won't do this is just rubbish.

If you kick a player it means you don't want them in your instance. Being able to rejoin the same party you left means the vote kick function is not fit for purpose.

Not really sure why people are debating this at all, the only feasible option is to make it so kicked players can't re-enter the group they were kicked from. The solution is simple so why are you guys trying to complicate it?

Odds are it wasn't SE's intention for kicked players to re-enter the same dungeon and it only really applies to jobs in short demand. I'm willing to bet that this QoL change is on their list and that they just haven't gotten to it yet.

Out of all my time playing this game I've only encountered this issue one time so I wouldn't call it a high priority based on my own personal experience but I would like to see the change made. If your friend is going to quit over one bad experience then he's probably going to quit anyways, tell him to get over it and move on.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

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I just hope they have something in the works for a more immediate solution. Cause re-queuing itself is a problem when you just wind up with the same individual. You don't see the resolution of utilizing the report system, leaving the player feeling dis-empowered and disenfranchised. They don't matter enough to invoke something until a committee comes and looks at it. That doesn't solve the short-term problem that becomes a long term one due to repetition of encounter. It also puts unnecessary policing work on the Game Masters where a simple kick should have resolved the situation in favor of the majority the first time around.

I'm in support of the "Can't return to same instance once kicked." Idea. I'm just hoping we can get some acknowledgement either way from SE on this to let those chafing badly under the issue know that relief is on the way.

As of right now the best way to deal with this would be wait for about 5 mins before allowing "finding more member", that way if the said kicked player decided to requeue again to join in progress, the player might end up on another instance or another join in progress instance.. The player also may gain penalty from trying to get into your instance if the player clicked withdraw 3 times

I've seen this happen in both good and bad ways. Bad- when someone is trolling and are kicked from a group, immediately requeuing and getting back in, as happened to your fc mate. When its a tank or healer which are rarer than dps, it's likely they'll get back in the same group.

Good- Ive had friends go into groups, ST for example, that are full fc groups aside from them who kick them out before a specific boss because they dont want the person not in their fc to get loot over someone they're competing with on the same job.

I have no idea how hard or easy it is to implement a fix to not let them back in the same group (though it would be handy). Hopefully someday they do, in the meantime its best to just wait a couple minutes before hitting the find new member, as suggested above. If the kicked person was a tank, they'll likely get an instant or very quick queue anyway for a different group, and they'll get a lockout penalty if they withdraw from that window when they see it's not the in prog one they were just doing.

In one of the runs I had, a party members was kicked due to an emergency for repairing his gear. Then quickly came back to resume the run. While this is an advantage but it can't be valid not to restrict kicked player from requeuing, at least for minimum x min. So I join to support OP

I'm amazed people are against this. Why are some people so quick to want to get back into a dungeon with a group of people who just kicked them out, anyways?

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Originally Posted by Krr

"Differences in playstyle caveat means I can kick anyone I want" crew incoming in 3, 2, 1...

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Hi there :)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2358628

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I'm amazed people are against this

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Sums up the vast majority of my time here on these forums

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Originally Posted by BraveheartRamo

In one of the runs I had, a party members was kicked due to an emergency for repairing his gear. Then quickly came back to resume the run. While this is an advantage but it can't be valid not to restrict kicked player from requeuing, at least for minimum x min. So I join to support OP

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I've had one run where the tank which queued with dps and these tweety lovebird lala hugging each other every 3 mins, the tank needed repair so vote kick was initiated and hoping he will get back to the dungeon, another tank joined in and got vote kicked because he wasnt the lala's darling.. And the tank was new to the dungeon too.. Poor sod

Tell your FC mate that the FC and other friends will make a point of going to dungeons with them. No more pugs.
What about the DR? Skip it (ofc you can team up for HM & Expert). What would you rather have, extra exp or no grief?

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Originally Posted by Sadana

Tell your FC mate that the FC and other friends will make a point of going to dungeons with them. No more pugs.
What about the DR? Skip it (ofc you can team up for HM & Expert). What would you rather have, extra exp or no grief?

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With respect, I addressed this earlier.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

With so much reliant on instances to accomplish things. Waiting for friends to have a 'safe' instance becomes increasingly counterproductive, and with the lack of tools in place, the few bad apples in the community can leave a strong, lasting negative impression upon players. I'm just worried about the long term impacts of this, as it's straining my members at this point.

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I pose a simple question: Why should an individual have to join a pre-made party only to evade players that a kick should have already addressed? It makes no sense even to me and not in the least to my FC mate.

I'm already pretty much reliant on at least partially premade parties on my Dragoon Character to alleviate queue times to play on my desired class. That much inconvenience I accept. But the fact that a kick has no consequence for a Tank who can simply rejoin the very same party by clicking "Join in progress" is unnecessarily enabling harassment.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

With respect, I addressed this earlier.

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My apologies. Clearly low on coffee this morning... ><;

Is it inconvenient, yeah... but this is pretty much how I and some others from my FC got through the game. My first ever DR experience had some twerp cussing at me (this was during Early Access) for nothing more than me saying I was having a hard time targeting with the controller. Hate to be so thin skinned, but that left a lasting bad effect on me.

There's other stuff to do while waiting for folks to be free (side quests, crafting, etc.). If we have fewer people online for some reason, I will 'stack' dungeon runs by telling folks "I'll go to X dungeon with you when I finish Y dungeon with SoNSo" (hell, swap help and have the same team go to both dungeons if they can.) I leveled and geared each role so I can fill the whatever's needed for any dungeon run.

That being said... I can't imagine how long it would take for the DF queue to check everyone's blist before signing people up. Can you imagine trying to get into CT or Frontlines? :/

I'd recommend a double-shot expressio today.

In my OP:

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I see multiple possible solutions to this matter. Have blacklisting be account-based and not server based, and players who are on one another blacklists are not paired. While questionable in implementation, a cool-down period for queuing (something small, like five to ten minutes?) Could be implemented to players who are kicked from instances, to better enable a replacement of a different player into duty. Or simply disabling someone from rejoining the same instance they have been kicked from (though this may require some more in-depth coding, but will probably be optimal if it is done.)

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I think this (bolded) one goes over the best with people here on the forums.

Overall, even though for the most part I evade this issue, My friend would not be sitting on two Zodiacs if it was not for his braving the Duty Finder frequently. He's also at the forefront of helping our DPS members of the FC bypass the long queue times by queuing as a healer (one of this two Zodiacs). You can imagine how many times he's encountered someone troublesome. He leans more to the Blacklist issue, citing that WoW manages to accomplish this, however given FFXIV's lower population I can sympathize with the concerns on its effects of the Queuing times. I think the more immediate concern is the returning players who were just kicked. I can't think of another game that allows that.

SE said they are going to fix that, they still haven't. They said that months ago. >_>

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Originally Posted by DoctorPepper

Not really sure why people are debating this at all, the only feasible option is to make it so kicked players can't re-enter the group they were kicked from.

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I agree with this.

I had the "honor" of being paired by Duty Finder with a tank who liked to verbally harass anyone in his party. One day, I was lucky enough to be partied with him again. He trashtalked me because I "couldn't heal Shiva Ex solo" and even went as far to say that "noobs should be using party finder and party up with other noobs". It was not aimed at me, but to the other healer who was new to the duty (he died so I had to heal Shiva Ex solo). Someone kicked that tank out, but then he went back in the duty which prevented us from getting another tank. The other people just gave up instead of kicking him again, because obviously he would just come back again. That's 7 people inconvenienced because some guy wanted to keep trolling us even after he was kicked.

If he had been kicked unfairly, he could file a report to SE. But for us who really didn't want him in our party for valid reasons... there was no way for us to protect our group from him because he could just go back in and troll us.

Apologies if someone has mentioned this before, but I've experienced multiple situations where kicking someone and having them rejoin was a major blessing. I remember a particular Pharos Sirius run I was doing for an Animus book, where the tank disconnected in the sewer and was auto-kicked. After waiting almost ten minutes for a new tank to join and no results, one of the dps asked to be kicked (pretty sure he would still have had an "abandon penalty" if he left manually), and that same dps immediately reentered after switching to a Paladin. We were then able to finish the dungeon.

I have had this happen probably a half-dozen times since they enabled player kicking, whereas I've only experienced a player doing it with negative intentions once.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Apologies if someone has mentioned this before, but I've experienced multiple situations where kicking someone and having them rejoin was a major blessing. I remember a particular Pharos Sirius run I was doing for an Animus book, where the tank disconnected in the sewer and was auto-kicked. After waiting almost ten minutes for a new tank to join and no results, one of the dps asked to be kicked (pretty sure he would still have had an "abandon penalty" if he left manually), and that same dps immediately reentered after switching to a Paladin. We were then able to finish the dungeon.

I have had this happen probably a half-dozen times since they enabled player kicking, whereas I've only experienced a player doing it with negative intentions once.

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If he left manually, since the party is not full, he would not have a penalty. I've done the same thing: we lost tank or healer, I'd leave and join in-progress as tank or healer.