2.5 and mudra lag

Is SE at least looking at the issue for 2.5? It really is frustrating knowing that i cannot reach optimal dps due to this annoying lag.

I think I know what you are saying, where you click 3 mudra, as you go to execute the move.

You do the second mudra instead of the 3rd happened to me a couple of times.

I just slowed down while executing my moves

i know how you feel, mudra lag killing my DPS

Yeah pretty much. Especially for australians (internet isn't fantastic down here) it really limits how much dps we can do.

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Originally Posted by FyrmurlFloerasksyn

Yeah pretty much. Especially for australians (internet isn't fantastic down here) it really limits how much dps we can do.

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the game is designed around 300ms and on a great day we get <300.

Aussie lag is not the problem.

I'm not saying it's THE problem. I'm just saying it is is pretty noticeable on aussie connections.

Last I heard, it was dismissed by the devs saying there was little more they could do to fix the problem. Even at 150 ping, mudra lag can sometimes be unbearable.

"Jin - Chi - Ten - Huto-! Wait, why is it showing Katon? Ok, guess I'll just throw down Doton and cry without Huton for 20 seconds."

Or my favourite: Suiton animation goes off, then game decides it never actually landed and switches to bunny after I use my next GCD.

working as intended :P

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Last I heard, it was dismissed by the devs saying there was little more they could do to fix the problem. Even at 150 ping, mudra lag can sometimes be unbearable.

"Jin - Chi - Ten - Huto-! Wait, why is it showing Katon? Ok, guess I'll just throw down Doton and cry without Huton for 20 seconds."

Or my favourite: Suiton animation goes off, then game decides it never actually landed and switches to bunny after I use my next GCD.

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Yes, I had the same happen with even one button skills (animation goes off, the skill doesn't) like Spirit Withih, Circle of Scorn, every Dragoon's Jumps etc.

It's due to how the game network were coded around. It's pretty bad, but what can we do?

If they cant fix the lag, would it be too problematic for them to remove the Mudra failure from using another skill? That way you could do, for example, Jin - Chi - Ten - Spinning Edge - Huton. Being able to use the ability without screwing up the Mudra would allow you to cast the appropriate Ninjutsu without lag screwing it up. You would still fail if you put in an incorrect combo (or just suffer the consequences of the wrong Ninjutsu).

It isn't really a fix, but it would alleviate some of the annoyance of having to basically force yourself to slow down just to get the abilities to work properly.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

If they cant fix the lag, would it be too problematic for them to remove the Mudra failure from using another skill? That way you could do, for example, Jin - Chi - Ten - Spinning Edge - Huton. Being able to use the ability without screwing up the Mudra would allow you to cast the appropriate Ninjutsu without lag screwing it up. You would still fail if you put in an incorrect combo (or just suffer the consequences of the wrong Ninjutsu).

It isn't really a fix, but it would alleviate some of the annoyance of having to basically force yourself to slow down just to get the abilities to work properly.

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This would be exploited to HELL, though. It would completely redefine the way ninjas are played.

Mudra lag is a problem but it's not one with an easy fix since latency is a monster with no weak points to hit for massive damage.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

This would be exploited to HELL, though. It would completely redefine the way ninjas are played.

Mudra lag is a problem but it's not one with an easy fix since latency is a monster with no weak points to hit for massive damage.

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How exactly would this be exploited 'to Hell'? It would be slightly more efficient that what is currently possible, yes, but the duration of a mudra is 5 seconds so you'd only be able to weave in 1 skill. It seems pretty reasonable to me since the alternative seems to be 'just sit there for a moment and wait so that you can confirm everything registered properly'.

The timing is already designed to theoretically allow you to perform all mudras and execute the ninjutsu without extra downtime. It just doesn't actually work all the time in practice.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

the duration of a mudra is 5 seconds so you'd only be able to weave in 1 skill.

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Just correcting one small thing, but the 5 second timer refreshes each time you use a mudra.

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Originally Posted by Nutz

How exactly would this be exploited 'to Hell'? It would be slightly more efficient that what is currently possible, yes, but the duration of a mudra is 5 seconds so you'd only be able to weave in 1 skill. It seems pretty reasonable to me since the alternative seems to be 'just sit there for a moment and wait so that you can confirm everything registered properly'.

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You could also weave in your cooldowns while doing your ninjutsu. NIN already did so much DPS they had to be nerfed without a huge safety net like this. It would basically be the same as PLD, WAR, MNK or DRG being able to weave all of their attack chains together at the same time. NIN get the mudra restriction for the same reason you have to combo to get Greased Lightning.
Otherwise, and this is just spitballing, NIN would be able to create macros that handle all their ninjutsu for them without penalty while they focus on their attack chain. SE anticipated this and added the rabbit.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

This would be exploited to HELL, though. It would completely redefine the way ninjas are played.

Mudra lag is a problem but it's not one with an easy fix since latency is a monster with no weak points to hit for massive damage.

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Latency is not the real issue of the mudra lag, but how the network of the game handles the information that is sent, and apparently, according to the devs it has to do with how the OS sends it, and that the fix is complicated.

While I'm no programmer wizard, I have my own observation skills and with them I make my own theories with a lil bit of imagination.

The way I see it, the game gives priority to some OS packets that are sent and puts the others on a slight queue, hence many people get the lag, and few don't.
There is one exception were the game will ignore that priority it gives, and thats when "big" battles happen. Test your ninjutsu speed when fighting Odin, Behe or any S Rank hunt when there's a lot of people also fighting in that battle. You'll see that your speed has increased and it's because the game decides to open wide the "flood" gates to let all the info go through without "checking", avoiding that way that many during te fight would get a very noticeable delay on their actions.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

You could also weave in your cooldowns while doing your ninjutsu. NIN already did so much DPS they had to be nerfed without a huge safety net like this. It would basically be the same as PLD, WAR, MNK or DRG being able to weave all of their attack chains together at the same time. NIN get the mudra restriction for the same reason you have to combo to get Greased Lightning.
Otherwise, and this is just spitballing, NIN would be able to create macros that handle all their ninjutsu for them without penalty while they focus on their attack chain. SE anticipated this and added the rabbit.

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So then only have a single ability be exempt from causing a failed Mudra combo. Add in the effect to Enhanced Wasp Venom and Enhanced Viper Venom so that the linked ability will not cancel a Mudra cast. You would only be able to weave in Mug or Jugulate to a Mudra combo without failing and would need to have Kiss of the Wasp or Kiss of the Viper active to do so. This would allow you to manually weave in the ability with success but macros would still be just as inefficient as they are now.

This is why this game needs to be client side.

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Originally Posted by Meier

This is why this game needs to be client side.

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Which comes with it's own set of problems.

Just bumping this topic. Can we get an update on when we can expect this to be fixed, or improved please?

The Mudra mechanics is interesting in itself, however the whole concept of having fast, smooth flowing Mudra casts isn't really helped much by the game's bad latency issues. Especially for us Australians who have something like 200-ish Ping (even with WTFast).

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Just bumping this topic. Can we get an update on when we can expect this to be fixed, or improved please?

The Mudra mechanics is interesting in itself, however the whole concept of having fast, smooth flowing Mudra casts isn't really helped much by the game's bad latency issues. Especially for us Australians who have something like 200-ish Ping (even with WTFast).

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I believe it was said during a live letter that they're looking for other/better ways to optimize the mudras. Not sure, though.

From Europe we get a lot of lag too and Vpn you get a little bit better but not as intended i guess. Maybe they should put the attack speed buff on rogue skills at least? (working like heavy trust for DRG)

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Originally Posted by kyuven

Mudra lag is a problem but it's not one with an easy fix since latency is a monster with no weak points to hit for massive damage.

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I don't believe that I'm going to say this but... they could trust the client with the combo and then only verify when they hit the finisher. That should fix the failures.

I wish they would just separate the various mudras and make them each their own ability, so I dont have to worry about Mudra lag anymore. It almost always fails because I either have a varying latency, or I click the actions too fast for one of them to register.
Tried a macro to stop this, it tends to miss an action everytime...

Just make each mudra its own action and be done with it.

I don't play ninja for this exact reason. Rather have a monk honestly.

The murdra lag is brutal, and definitely hurts a lot if you miss a huton or suiton in a DPS check, honestly though, I agree with several other's points...make these GCD skills without needing to do the combination of keys, but have them have interlocking CDs like they currently do to retain balance. Yes, it takes away from the flavor of a Ninja and combining seals, but until the lag is figured out, it is hurting us more than helping.

Not only are mudras lagging, but I'm getting more instances of Kassatsu resetting my mudras and then the guaranteed crit failing to take effect on the subsequent ninjutsu (instead, the Kassatsu buff stays on until it naturally times out).

Playing ninja has become an exercise in frustration more often than not lately. I'm actually half glad Raiton got nerfed and I can mostly ignore it with the lag I'm having.

It's a shame the Ninjas most Iconic features has lead to it's biggest downfall as well. It's even worse when it's not because it's too hard or complex of a mechanic it's that it can't actually stand up to the proper intended use (Quick input)