Help me choose a melee dps!!

Hello All!

My main is a 37 War and im loving it! I have an itch to try out dps! I never really cared for ranged dps, so im asking for help on melee class selection! Mainly monk, nin or drg; is there a class that is needed more than others towards endgame? Is one better than the other in terms of dps? Im looking to wreck some dungeons and enjoy killing bosses! Just looking ahead if i have to do group finder and not wanting to get turned away bc the class i chose is subpar or another class has more utility for group content. Thanks!

nin:global dmg buff(debuff of 10% on mob/boss), haste, mudras, aoe friendly
drg:pierce debuff(drg/brd 10% dmg on target), jumps, 2 stuns, aoe friendly(starting at 34-38?), simple compared to other 2 the way i read them, 2 gap closers

someone else can fill in the mnk info

Black Mage - just whack stuff with your staff xD

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Black Mage - just whack stuff with your staff xD

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This is hilarious!!

Speaking of blm... out of all dps who takes the cake? Whats are the top 3 classes in terms of raw dps, assuming gear is equal.

Monk: Highest sustained damage, lowest burst/longest build-up time. In a long fight with high uptimes, no one beats monk.
Dragoon: High burst, high sustained damage, high mobility.
Ninja: High burst, high sustained damage, raid utility in the forms of TP restore and increased damage for other DPS.

More or less. There are some nuances with each class, like monks having the most positionals and being required to constantly move.

I was wondering about this also.
I JUST started the game, and chose Glad as my starting class. I have experience with the tanking role in other games, but am not sure I want that much group responsibility while still learning this game. So that leaves me with melee dps as my second choice, and was trying to decide between Ninja or Dragoon.

If Dragoon is simpler, I might go that route. Not sure though. I'm pretty overwhelmed.

Since your main is WAR I would recommend one of the strength based DPS classes, Dragoon or Monk. You'll be able to use their accessories on your tank once your left side gear gives you enough Vitality. Dragoon also makes use of your WAR skills as a cross class so that's a plus.

So there are a few things to consider:

Single Target DPS:
MNK>NIN>DRG
MNK has a long build up time, but can produce massive numbers against single targets. NIN and DRG are very close in this category. NIN is just slightly higher in my opinion. All 3 are very capable of the hardest content in the game though.

AoE DPS:
DRG>NIN>MNK
Both NIN and DRG AoE is MILES ahead of MNK. MNK AoE is just awful, but it needs to be as a trade off for their incredible Single Target DPS.

Difficulty Level:
MNK>NIN>DRG
Lots of debate here, but most people tend to agree that NIN and DRG are significantly easier than MNK. DRG DPS is all about off GCD abilities and timing buffs correctly, as well as how to use your jumps without dying due to jump lock animations. NIN DPS is relatively simple as well, since they have the easiest rotation, but the class suffers from mudra lag currently, so if your connection is poor, this is not a great choice. MNK difficulty comes from all of the positional requirements. Though your rotation will not be penalized for screwing up your position, your DPS output will be. But don't let this scare you. With a little practice, most players can handle MNK.

Utility:
MNK>NIN>DRG
DRG utility is very poor. The only good thing they have is a piercing debuff, which will also boost damage done from BRD's, but that's pretty much it. NIN utility is significantly better, with access to a 10% raid wide DPS buff and the Goad ability. MNK utility is the winner here because of dragon kick. This is the only melee class intelligence debuff available in the game and it is extremely helpful for the end game content at this moment. They also provide a group wide healing buff which can be very helpful.

Levelling Efficiency:
NIN>DRG>MNK
Since you do not have a class to lvl 50 yet, you will spend a lot of time questing on your way there. One last thing to consider is solo effectiveness. NIN is a solo master due 3 main reasons: stealth, front loaded damage, few positional requirements. This class is a breeze to level with. DRG is the next best since they have very few positional requirements as well. MNK is the bottom of the barrell here (also the worst levelling dps class in the game) due to the fact that almost all of their attacks are positional based, and when soloing enemies they will always face you rendering your dps neutered. This factor does not matter for long, since when you get to 50 you will never have to worry about it again, but it is still something to consider.

So all in all, the melee classes are balanced decently well at the moment. All 3 melee classes are heavily used in the current end game content due to the normal party DPS composition being 2 melee, 1 bard, 1 magic user
I currently play DRG for my static and am having a great time with it. All 3 are viable so pick the one that seems the most interesting to you! daggers, fists, or spears!

Thanks everyone for all the great info! A lot to think about! I think im leaning towards drg right now! :) thanks!!!

The constant moving around of the MNK is the only reason I would suggest NIN or DRG over MNK (and I main MNK and love two of it's attack animations to much to move to another Melee DPS role).

It's not so bad when the tank is stationary, but if that tank is constantly moving and the monster moves with them, it just becomes a pain :/

Solo wise, pretty sure DRG and NIN beat MNK damage wise, with not being so position based, but I can only go on feel there for classes that are level 34 and 39/40 respectively.

NIN and DRG also look to have better weapon skins (opinion based here) also, maining a WAR, a DRG just seems like a natural DPS class to go with from an RP standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

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Well put.

My opinion: In terms of Melee DPS I'd go MNK. It's very fun & fluid to play and a bit more forgiving on positionals than DRG was While NIN is ok IMO, I like MNK the most. I've not got to 50 DRG to give my full player experience opinion on the job, but working on it...

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

Difficulty Level:
MNK>NIN>DRG
Lots of debate here... (SNIP)

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Okay, I agree with almost everything he said (for what he typed out) except the order of difficulty. The difficulty in any job is somewhat false it's usually people think of their initial learning curve/experience as the indicator that this job is hard, but I will say I've never had issues playing monk or any other dps outside learning the initial rotation. Anyone who says MNK is hard due to positional is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

The harder class to play is ninja because regardless of positional requirements you need to be aware of your dot cycle, other people's TP, your TP, huton recast timer, back positional for trick attack, kassatsu timer, suiton/ta timer, and MUDRA LAG. Also if you cannot get in around 12-13 mudra casts in a housing area before auto-bunny then your connection is having issues and your input lag will lower your DPS and cause other potential issues like accidental bunnies. Playing Ninja at the peak performance almost feels like it requires WTFAST or other pingzapping programs that help you avoid bad routing. So mudra lag coupled with the other things you must be aware of, while playing ninja, makes the job the hardest.

What you should play as a melee: MNK
What you should play as a caster: BLM

All this MNK love, but didn't the polls show it to be the least loved class? :)

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

My opinion: In terms of Melee DPS I'd go MNK. It's very fun & fluid to play and a bit more forgiving on positionals than DRG was While NIN is ok IMO, I like MNK the most. I've not got to 50 DRG to give my full player experience opinion on the job, but working on it...

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haha yes, DRG used to be very unforgiving on positionals, but recent changes have made it much more pleasant to play with. I will eventually get around to levelling up MNK and NIN, but there is just something about jumping off screen and crashing down on an opponent that feels so good! At least until you get jump animation locked into AoE damage...... ;)

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Originally Posted by Mardel

The harder class to play is ninja ...

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Ya this always brings up a bit of debate, and I think the difficulty is just different for different players. Personally, i find the constant motion somewhat more daunting than a lot of the CD timer awareness that NIN requires. And the main reason that I believe NIN to be a bit easier is because of the simple nature of their damage rotation (excluding mudras). It is just a simple combo1 -> combo2 -> combo3 -> combo1 -> combo2 -> combo3 style that you add mudras and the one DoT ability on to.

By comparison the main DRG rotation looks more like this:
HT -> Combo1 -> Ph -> Combo2 -> HT -> Combo2 -> Ph -> Combo1 -> HT -> Combo 2 -> Ph -> Combo2 -> Repeat

DRG also has a lot of their own off the GCD timers, including B4B, Invigorate, IR, jump, spineshatter dive, dragonfire dive, life surge, power surge, leg sweep, etc.

All in all, none of the classes in this game are all that difficult to play, but I just find the combination of buffs and movement requirements of MNK to have the highest skill ceiling.

Now you guys have me debating mnk or drg! Im a new player and dont have any 50s... would it be more beneficial for me to hit 50 on the war then go to an alt?

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Originally Posted by Mardel

The harder class to play is ninja because regardless of positional requirements you need to be aware of your dot cycle, other people's TP, your TP, huton recast timer, back positional for trick attack, kassatsu timer, suiton/ta timer, and MUDRA LAG. Also if you cannot get in around 12-13 mudra casts in a housing area before auto-bunny then your connection is having issues and your input lag will lower your DPS and cause other potential issues like accidental bunnies. Playing Ninja at the peak performance almost feels like it requires WTFAST or other pingzapping programs that help you avoid bad routing. So mudra lag coupled with the other things you must be aware of, while playing ninja, makes the job the hardest.

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I disagree that NIN is the hardest to play, in comparison to the other two. This is arguably debatable. Every job has its WTF's, OOPSIES and everything else... However Mudra lag has no bearing on difficulty to play the class and furthermore is not an issue for me when playing NIN. I've experienced it and it's very easy to get down/anticipate/adapt to...

The only thing that makes NIN a tid bit complicated to play is that I don't have enough room on my hotkeys for what I need on my rotations (PS3)... I'M a Tank and Healer at heart so anticipating when my tank needs TP, I'm usually right on time with Goad. Other than that, NIN IMO is very "leh snore" to play to me.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

except the order of difficulty

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To be honest, difficulty is relative. What I find hard will be incredibly simple to someone else. I'd just leave the difficulty out of the equation since the OP should know what they are good and bad at. For me, I know i'd screw up mudras like nobody's business, hah.

Tex_Mex did a great job with describing the jobs otherwise. I'm biased as MNK is my main. Take each at face value and go with what you'd want to do.

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Originally Posted by Dashadow11

would it be more beneficial for me to hit 50 on the war then go to an alt?

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Yes. Once you get WAR to 50 any other class you level will get a 50% exp boost all the way to 50.

To be 100% honest with you, your first class all the way to 50 should probably be a healer or a DPS, as these roles require a lot less knowledge of the game to perform well. Now if you are a MMO veteran, and comfortable with the responsibilities of tanking, then more power to you! But I typically recommend DPS classes for peoples first 50's.

And both MNK and DRG are great classes. I prefer DRG mostly for aesthetic reasons, but I WILL be levelling my monk soon, since I love the design of the class.

I have main tanked in WoW from vanilla through MoP as a war or druid. Tanking is really all i know! I just see the cool melee and i ask myself, maybe i should try that!

When you say get to 50, do you mean hit 50 and immediately seitch or do i finish out the story quests? Sorry, im newb lol!

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Originally Posted by Dashadow11

I have main tanked in WoW from vanilla through MoP as a war or druid. Tanking is really all i know! I just see the cool melee and i ask myself, maybe i should try that!

When you say get to 50,do you mean hit 50 and immediately seitch or do i finish out the story quests? Sorry, im newb lol!

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Awesome! Ya if you have that tanking experience, then you will be just fine tanking in this game and taking a WAR to 50 first, if that is what you desire. And trust me, when you get your first class to 50, do yourself a favor and finish the main scenario story quests. The ending is EPIC and was one my favorite parts of this game!

Once you hit 50, and if you choose to continue levelling up your warrior, it becomes all about gear. When you first hit 50, you will have an average gear ilvl of around 45-50. As soon as you start doing level 50 content, you will find that the majority of players that will do end game content with you are avg ilvl 95+. While this does not matter for a DPS, it does mean that you will have a difficult time holding threat as a tank until you can improve your gear level a bit. The good news is that holding threat in the early lvl 50 content does not matter that much since most players outgear the content by so much that they could run it without a tank entirely if they had to. So if you choose to go that route, don't be discouraged if you lose threat on enemies, there is nothing you can do about it until you can upgrade your gear. The most important piece for any melee class (tanks included) is your weapon. So look to get that upgraded as fast as you can.

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Originally Posted by Zedd702

I disagree that NIN is the hardest to play, in comparison to the other two. This is arguably debatable. Every job has its WTF's, OOPSIES and everything else... However Mudra lag has no bearing on difficulty to play the class and furthermore is not an issue for me when playing NIN. I've experienced it and it's very easy to get down/anticipate/adapt to...

The only thing that makes NIN a tid bit complicated to play is that I don't have enough room on my hotkeys for what I need on my rotations (PS3)... I'M a Tank and Healer at heart so anticipating when my tank needs TP, I'm usually right on time with Goad. Other than that, NIN IMO is very "leh snore" to play to me.

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Mudra lag does not affect difficulty per se, but it does affect your ability to be a good Ninja player. If you've got high latency you can pretty much forget about ever doing the numbers you should be able to do as a NIN, and that's something that shouldn't be ignored when choosing a DPS. The effect of latency on Monk and Dragoon output isn't even in the same universe as it is with Ninja.

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Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Mudra lag does not affect difficulty per se, but it does affect your ability to be a good Ninja player. If you've got high latency you can pretty much forget about ever doing the numbers you should be able to do as a NIN, and that's something that shouldn't be ignored when choosing a DPS. The effect of latency on Monk and Dragoon output isn't even in the same universe as it is with Ninja.

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Correct you are.

That's what I was implying. But in direct regards to Mudra lag and the other stuff that was quoted in my previous post does not make NIN more difficult class to play than MNK or DRG even with its latency, although I agree it is to be considered when choosing between the three melee DPS, it does not compete with positional requirements of the other two Jobs as NIN can do its damage from anywhere on the enemy...

Don't let people throw you off my saying that DRG is "simple". While it most certainly may be at lower levels, the class has an exceedingly high skill ceiling at 50. Although the positional requirements have been eased to be the same style as monks, they still provide significant dmg and should always been utilized. On top of that, DRG has a 24 ability long rotation before it completely "repeats" which is much longer than NIN on MNK. Being accurate and knowing you priority for your off GCD ability weaving is a huge part of your dps, and you must keep doing this on top of keeping track of your rotation/debuffs/buffs/dots/positioning, ect. Not to mention, every time you use a jump you have to know the fight well enough to know that you wont be coming back down to land on something that will kill you. This takes experience and learning but is completely necessary at endgame where jumping at the wrong time could lead to you getting one shot by mechanics or taking massive dmg, and also having the foresight to hold you cd's/jumps for the right moments to maximize their effectiveness.

All in all it's a very well built melee class that can offer something for everyone and is easy to learn but difficult to master.

Welcome to FFXIV OP!
Id honestly recommend DRG. im not going to add to the "who's more difficult" debate...I'll just say that DRG is well balanced now, doesn't have a horribly difficult priority list, and allows you time to get a feel for the combat pace and the dungeons as you level. id recommend DRG over the others initially, but really pick what you want. up through the higher tiers of raiding it really doesn't matter. I went Archer/BRD for my first 50. I do feel that going DPS first is best in this game. coming from a decade + experience in MMO's, the learning curve in this one is a bit steeper for the encounters, so it helps to run them as DPS first.

Ninja is by far the most challenging one. MNK and DRG are equally easy. Don't be fooled by the people who say that MNK is rocket science. It isn't. To be fair, none of the classes are really hard to play. But personally I would go MNK. I choose MNK because it's the most fun and in my opinion the easiest. Well, at least as easy as DRG, although I would say it's harder on DRG to get the numbers.

I've always been partial for Dragoons cause of their gear

Huge lack of bard love in here........

haha, but personally if I hadn't gone bard I'd be going ninja for my personal DPS class. You can try them all out and see which one you like to play the most, too.

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

AoE DPS:
DRG>NIN>MNK
Both NIN and DRG AoE is MILES ahead of MNK. MNK AoE is just awful, but it needs to be as a trade off for their incredible Single Target DPS.

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huh ? Nin has AoE possibilities ? Katon every 20 seconds, and that's about it. Monk is far ahead of that with 2 skills, one circular and one conal (ok they cost a lot and leave you TP starved really quick, but still...), and an extra off-GCD conal attack. While not at DRG's level, Monk's AoE is nothing to laugh at.

Compare it with Katon every 20 seconds (if mudra lag lets you...) and a laughable 120 TP 100 potency circular AoE, you know who is better at it.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

Hmm, Monk does have 2 skills, but Arm of the Destroyer should never be used for damage really. Much better just using Rockbreaker every Coeurl form while keeping Twin Snakes up and DK'ing as many things as possible in between. Or just Perfect Balance -> Rockbreaker spam. Arm might be viable if you know you can afford the TP against a massive hoard, like at the end of Sastasha HM but the damage is still very poor while eating huge chunks of TP.

I do think Ninja's AoE kinda sucks and is over-rated too, but it's at least better than a Monk without Perfect Balance. The guaranteed crit from Kassatsu on a full-duration Doton is pretty potent, and Katon's...okay....if Doton's already up. Death Blossom is kinda meh. But it's still passable when combined with the Ninjutsus. Drg leaves them both in the dust though.

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Touche. I had forgotten about Doton. I guess "less bad" would be a preferred term then regarding ninja vs monk.

Either way, melees shouldn't have to AoE that much in normal gameplay ;D

Through all the talk of difficulty, you'll spend a lot of time getting acquainted with your moves before unlocking new ones, by the time you hit 50 you should be pretty competent after spending so much time on one regardless of which job it is. I actually think they're all pretty equal in difficulty, maaaaybe NIN just slightly harder than the others because they actually have a much stricter penalty for messing up. I mean if you look at every Monk skill before you play it you'll probably get a massive headache, but while levelling it up and spending time with it it'll seem pretty straightforward. You probably have a good idea of how they all look / play like now, so I'm just gonna be that sap who says "just choose the one you think looks cooler" :P

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

huh ? Nin has AoE possibilities ? Katon every 20 seconds, and that's about it. Monk is far ahead of that with 2 skills, one circular and one conal (ok they cost a lot and leave you TP starved really quick, but still...), and an extra off-GCD conal attack. While not at DRG's level, Monk's AoE is nothing to laugh at.

Compare it with Katon every 20 seconds (if mudra lag lets you...) and a laughable 120 TP 100 potency circular AoE, you know who is better at it.

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Hmm, Monk does have 2 skills, but Arm of the Destroyer should never be used for damage really. Much better just using Rockbreaker every Coeurl form while keeping Twin Snakes up and DK'ing as many things as possible in between. Or just Perfect Balance -> Rockbreaker spam. Arm might be viable if you know you can afford the TP against a massive hoard, like at the end of Sastasha HM but the damage is still very poor while eating huge chunks of TP.

I do think Ninja's AoE kinda sucks and is over-rated too, but it's at least better than a Monk without Perfect Balance. The guaranteed crit from Kassatsu on a full-duration Doton is pretty potent, and Katon's...okay....if Doton's already up. Death Blossom is kinda meh. But it's still passable when combined with the Ninjutsus. Drg leaves them both in the dust though.

Welcome to FFXIV OP!
if You're enjoying warrior, level that first! partially so you can get to 50 quick, partially because Main Story Quests take you through 80% of the dungeons up til 50. However, remember... you get a bonus xp of 50% while you catch up battle classes to your highest class. (highest is 30 everything else gets bonus til 30) That said, can always level a dps and tank up at the same time, ie every 5 levels play catchup.

As to DPS... I'd say go this order Ninja, Bard, Black Mage, Monk, Dragoon, Summoner. I've never seen parties turn down a bard or black mage; but as both of those are ranged and you asked for melee I put Ninja first. Personally, I find Ninja much more fun then Dragoon and Monk feel really difficult for me, however Ninja needs both for cross class skills so that would also give you a good reason to try them out. (dragoon's 34, Monk's 42) I main Bard, gearing Ninja as I go (they share Right Side gear [monk and ninja share pre 2.4 left side gear]) and Scholar.

I prefer ninja mainly because it pretty much has no positional requirements (thankfully) and it's the closest thing to a sword dps class we will be getting for a while.

As you are a lifer tank, based off your statement, you would be best served leveling mnk initially. It is the only melee dps that cross classes with tanks atm.

You can never go wrong leveling DRG to 34 if you want to play a melee dps (or bard) at some point... The cross class skills are so essential (monk has some but most are lower leveled other than mantra). If you like DRG keep going with it... Or switch at that point.