New Jobs: Cross Class Skills? Thoughts?

Its something I've been thinking about quite a bit, and earlier I a XIV youtube video I watched mentioned their guesses. Made me wonder what everyone is thinking about this.
I am assuming, of course, that they GET cross class skills despite being classless.
I'm going to list my thoughts, and reasons why. Hopefully, everyone else will too!

Dark Knight:
Marauder: Firstly because it wouldn't make sense to not be linked to a tank, and I personally don't see it meshing with Paladin the Holy/Light centric. Secondly, being a two handed tank; it makes for a better linkup; skill wise, also makes more sense. Yes I know this would mean they didn't get Provoke; I believe DRK is going to have their own version comprised of darkness.
Arcanist though Black Mage makes sense I see ACN being the linkup over BLM simply because of some of the spells available in the ACN spellbook that are DRK from previous games: bio, miasma specifically. Thunder and scathe could also classify though which is why both make sense to me. Lore wise, BLM might actually be a bit ahead of ACN.

Machinist:
Archer is a given for me. I mean they're both ranged TP dps. Straight shot(as a cross class ability could be awesome), Hawk's eye, Raging strikes, Quelling strikes; great setup for cross classing.
Rogue is less given but what I think makes most sense. Being the only class that doesn't currently give abilities to any job, at least one of the three will use it and while Perfect Dodge makes sense on DRK; no other ability actually does. Perfect Dodge is a good dps CD for those oh crap moments, as any Rogue can tell you. Goad being a cross class skill, means it will have a better chance to be utilized in raids as if there isn't a rogue, it could still be present. Rogue currently doesn't list any other crossing skills however I could see Mutilate and Jugulate being cross class as they wouldn't have their modifiers.

Astrologian:
Scenario 1:
Conjurer is the default healing class, so it makes the most sense to have it be available as a cross class. Protect and Stoneskin are a must. Raise for early levels depending on when they get their own. Cleric Stance, because they'll have some dps capability.
Thaumaturge mostly because Swiftcast is too important to not have it as part of the lineup. However, as with the current classes that use THM, thats its only purpose.
Scenario 2:
In this thought process, I asked, what if they get their own versions of protect/stoneskin/swiftcast; which is potentially possible.
If that was the case, I started to think about what else could be crossed. Then I looked at it from more of a lore/mechanical standpoint...
Arcanist for Eye for an Eye and Virus. Ruin for a cheep spam-able dps would be useful too, depending on their dps spells. Throughout the Arcanist quests, they tell the player that you use equations and other such means to harness the Aether to weild its potential, which could easily be seen as a standing point for Astrologian.
Mechanist is a gadget class for what we can tell and would likely fall under the same type of category as Arcanist in smarts lorewise. Also, could give some CD usage or support ability to tie into the build of a healer nicely.
Scenario 2 is pretty much highly unlikely, but the possibilities it would create is interesting

With that part over, will any of the new classes share abilities with older jobs. Could in getting to 60, unlock DRK for WAR/PLD/DRG? MCN for BRD/ROG/MNK? AST for SCH/WHM? SMN seems outta place here lol

Thoughts?

On that note does anyone have any idea on cross class skills on the expanstion. R they going to change the cross classes of each job. now that we have more of them or are they keeping them the way they are for example Bard had Conjurer and Thm as cross class abilities now they have Puligist and Lancer. Whats next maybe in this expansion they may change it up and switch Puligist or Lancer for rogue. I mean its not a bad idea I mean altering the playstyle of each class a lil bit by giving them new cross class.Whitemage gets Astrologians cross class it doesn't seem like a bad idea to constantly switch them up. It would promote players to explore other jobs more.

I'm honestly expecting we'll see some form of changes to the system when 3.0 hits - even if it's just "every job gets 3 classes to pull from for crossclassing instead of 2".

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

I'm honestly expecting we'll see some form of changes to the system when 3.0 hits - even if it's just "every job gets 3 classes to pull from for crossclassing instead of 2".

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System revamp has been something I've thought about 6-7 months ago; back when I was playing SCH and SMN at the same time, thinking they both shouldn't have been linked off Arcanist.

That said, I dont actually know how they'd revamp, in any sense, so making guesses off current system is all we have atm.

Is there really no one who has thoughts about this that want to share? To comment on my own thoughts, saying that makes no sense or anything? :(

Healer cross class skills are widely the same.

Stoneskin, Eye, Virus, Swiftcast.

Ok, Stoneskin not so much for SCH (but still a nice to have).

If Astrologist can't get those or similar, then something needs to be in the Astrologist skill tree to make up for it.

DPS classes are generally the same:
Raging Strikes or B4B. Since Archer was one of those who had access to both, it's possible Machinist will also get it.

Tank...
Provoke, Foresight, Covalecence (or similar).

The new classes may bring new styles of play, but throughout all the classes most of the skills have been pretty uniform.

Off Topic: Now...if we got BLU, I'd swap mains immediately. I miss regurgitation.

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Originally Posted by Sumimi

Off Topic: Now...if we got BLU, I'd swap mains immediately. I miss regurgitation.

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yeah, I miss finding their abilities and learning them. Its the real class to go out into the world and see its beauty as you track down creatures. Gameplay was so much fun. Though, without skill/magic chaining it'll be a little less fun as that was a blast to solo-chain.

OT: I think stoneskin is way more important then Eye/Virus for a healer, swiftcast is non negotiable. That's why I'm hoping we get AST versions of some so they can branch out into a different X-class fromula

I think it's important to look at the cross-classable abilities that are currently not utilized by jobs such as Straight Shot.

What I expect to see:

AST- Since it's dealing with the cosmos and we know it's about prediction I assume it will have its own version of reducing incoming damage (maybe Shell), a shield (Rewind, heals back a set amount of damage sustained immediately) and Raise/Resurrection (potentially Re-Raise as a pre-emptive cast with a short duration). Because of the importance of needing a way for your DPS to actually be DPS while leveling I expect them to have their own version of Cleric Stance. This pretty much cuts CNJ out of the pool. I'd expect ACN/THM.

DRK- Because of the need of Provoke for endgame content I expect this to continue. They'll probably take from GLA for that as well as some mitigation tools. I could see them getting LNC as well. While reducing your defensive ability is usually a no-no for a tank it makes a bit of sense for a DRK (especially one based off of FFIV) to have Blood for Blood. LNC also gets an ability that turns an attack into HP as well as Keen Flurry for a parrying boost.

MCH- Hands down I expect to see ARC. There are several abilities that make perfect sense: Straight Shot (CC but no jobs), Venomous Bite (same), Hawk's Eye (huge DPS gain for ranged (expected NIN to get it... oh well)), Quelling/Raging. ROG would make sense for the next one as no other job makes use of it and there are some CC abilities already: Perfect Dodge, Goad, Death Blossom.

SE has said that there will be some changes coming in 3.0 however so we may see some cross-class abilities being shifted around. Since they said it won't be a major change I'm thinking it's possible for AST to get their own Swiftcast and for them to be put on WHM's/SCH's list while at the same time removing THM. The same could go for WAR/PLD and DRK as well as NIN/BRD and MCH.

If no part of the system changes at 3.0 I would expect, in short

AST - CNJ & ACN
DRK - GLA & MRD
MCH - ARC & LNC

I will expect the number of cross-class skill slots to increase to 6, and I hope at least half the classes gain another abilty that can be cross-classed. However I certainly hope they do change some things. Adding a third class you can pull abilities from would give players a much greater amount of choice in what skills to use, at least for most classes, since several jobs can't even fill 5 with useful abilities right now.

My biggest beef is that I also don't want to see 3 jobs with cross-class skills that cannot be used by any other job for 12-15 months. I didn't expect them to give rogue skills to any job when it was released, but that was simply due to the schedule of the release. They could not give the new jobs any skills that can be cross-classed, but that's the opposite of what I want to happen. I don't know if the devs would prefer a re-shuffle of tertiary classes, or just add a third class for every job to pull skills from, even if it didn't happen until lv60, but I hate to see abilities that "can be cross-classed" only by classes that for the most part aren't viable in endgame content.

Then this question will apply to all future jobs they add. Do they change up cross-class skills every time they add new jobs, or do they leave them to stagnate for a year and a half?

I'm kinda wishing we will get away from mandatory cross class skills, things like Warriors having to level GLD to 22 for provoke. Some CDs and extra attacks are fine. I'm leaning more towards utility cross class skills. I think you shouldn't need to cross class to do basic requirements, it should make you a little bit better at those things but should not be required to play your role. Provoke/B4B/Internal/Invigorate/Quelling are what I'm talking about here. While interesting at first they create more problems in the long run.

Kinda hoping DRK and WAR both get a taunt in the expansion, and if the machinist doesn't cross class MNK/DRG/NIN then the damage of their abilities can always be increased to compensate. Utility is a bit harder to replace but still not impossible, things like ninja being given that slashing debuff skill, same with warriors. Replacing utility would mean the job needs a new skill, replacing damage due to not having B4B or Internal Release could mean just buffing of potency or base crit rate of the job reasonable levels. Invigorate is a bit more tricky since all dps need it. Although does anyone know if goad gives similar TP per use over the full duration? Does anyone know this? I left the game before Ninja was released and came back a short time ago and I'm curious. ps, I know you can't goad yourself I'm just curious about the amount of TP restored.

With them moving away from the class system in this expansion, I have a feeling this is where it's headed. We still don't know if jobs will start at 1 or 30, We can pretty much assume everyone will be getting 2 more job skills and 2 more class skills. Job skills coming at 55,60 (or every 5 levels after 30), Class at 54,58 (every 4 levels starting at level 18). We can pretty much assume that since they're jobs in this expansion we will also get 2 more cross class skill slots (maybe) but the cap may be set at 5, seems like a good number to limit it at. Some cross class skills aren't even close to useful while others are mandatory is a problem.

The new jobs can always not have any Cross Class skills and instead be self sufficient, which would be interesting. It's all what direction the developers want to take the game in.

I think going forward they should get rid of the whole "2 sub-classes for each job." It only restricts our ability to customize. We already saw this happen when they added rogues, but no other job could cross-class any ROG skills. Goad would've been a great cross-class skill for Bards and other DoW's, but because Square is strictly adhering to the 2 sub-classes for each jobs, no one could make use of it.

Instead, Square should go down a list, ability by ability, and determine which jobs can cross-class it, whether for balance or lore reasons. Don't want DoW's having access to Cure/Physick/Stoneskin? Then simply don't allow it to be cross-classed by any DoW except for Paladins. If Raging Strikes is deemed too OP for monks, they can just disallow that individual ability, while still allowing other Bard abilities to be cross-classed.

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Originally Posted by Dragonsoad

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I'm also kinda hoping they move away from cross-class skills that are practically mandatory. I don't have much of a problem with things like SCH and protect because you have to have CNJ at 15 to get SCH, and you'll have protect by then, but the example with WAR and provoke can be annoying, also healers and swiftcast.

I believe untraited goad restores 200 (20/tick 1tick/3secs 30secs) and then ROG gets a trait that increases it to 300 (30/tick).

Cross-class skill slot number is an interesting speculation. Jobs have gotten 1/10lvs and classes have gotten 1/5lvs, but lv50 classes almost fill the window width with 10 abilities. They could definitely fit an 11th one in the window without changes and changing the window is definitely not out of the question. I'll expect the number of slots to increase to 6, since, at that rate they could still give us another slot every expansion at least until we hit lv100. Whether it increases like this depends upon where they want to go, and if they want to continue giving cross-classable abilities at lv50+.

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Originally Posted by Cebo

Instead, Square should go down a list, ability by ability, and determine which jobs can cross-class it, whether for balance or lore reasons.

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This would also be a great way to handle it, that way they wouldn't feel "locked-in" to giving a class abilities as part of a package deal, and they could ensure every class has useful abilities to borrow and lend.