New to 3* and above crafting - need some advice

Hi all,

So I'm starting to get into 3* crafting, and I just made my HQ Artisan's File last night.

I currently run with this rotation:

Comfort Zone
Inner Quiet
Steady Hand II
Piece by Piece x2
Hasty Touch until 20/80 or 10/80
Master's Mend II
Steady Hand
Great Stride
Ingenuity II
Innovation (skip if Excellent at this step)
Byregot's Blessing
Careful Synthesis x3

- I use Trick of the Trades where possible. For every Trick of the Trades proc, I use Basic Touch over Hasty Touch.
- I refresh Comfort Zone and Steady Hand II whenever they fall off.
- Definitely use Basic Touch on Excellent proc.

I can't help but feel like I'm missing something here. Admittedly I've only ever done macro-crafting, so to do them manually is a little nerve-wracking (I got 98% on my File last night).

Is there anything I should change? Anything I can improve on? Anything I should know before heading into Master Book II token crafting, or 4* crafting?

I'm planning to smash out crafting soon, so I'd like to know how to craft better.

You should be aiming to restore dura a 2nd time.

I don't know your stats, but I'd recommend using something like PbP - RS x2 - CS2 for progress.

Use the saved CP to try and get a 2nd mend2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juniglee

- Definitely use Basic Touch on Excellent proc.

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Before the BB it's best to mostly ignore Excellents, unless but if you have dura/sh2 up just use a hasty, if you would have otherwise used a progress skill.

If you have excess CP Basic can be used, but you should still have CP for a 2nd Dura restore move.

Use Ing2 only if have excess CP, for added quality, but it's better to use the saved CP geting more stacks and finish with GS-Inno-BB.

The basic things you try and see if you like:

• use PbP outside SHII, it's 90%
• use Rapid Synthesis, your 3 star progress can be brought down to PbP, 2xRS, CSII. That can save you durability and CP.
• INGII is about a 30% boost to progress steps on 3 stars, but less than a 7% boost to touches/BB. If you don't need it to complete your progress, don't use it for BB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

You should be aiming to restore dura a 2nd time.

I don't know your stats, but I'd recommend using something like PbP - RS x2 - CS2 for progress.

Use the saved CP to try and get a 2nd mend2.

Before the BB it's best to mostly ignore Excellents, unless but if you have dura/sh2 up just use a hasty, if you would have otherwise used a progress skill.

If you have excess CP Basic can be used, but you should still have CP for a 2nd Dura restore move.

Use Ing2 only if have excess CP, for added quality, but it's better to use the saved CP geting more stacks and finish with GS-Inno-BB.

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MM2 consumes a lot of CP though. Assume minimum 3* craft requirement stats of 393 craft, 375 control, and about 386 CP after HQ Bouillabaise. Unless I don't use Basic Touch at all, and just hang onto every ToT proc, then maaaaaaybe I might be able to go for a 2nd MM2, but otherwise I feel like I will be very CP starved at the end, and not be able to use SH - GS - Ing2 - BB - CS. I ended my File craft at 38 CP remaining, without a 2nd MM2, so I don't know where I would have fit in a 2nd MM2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

The basic things you try and see if you like:

• use PbP outside SHII, it's 90%
• use Rapid Synthesis, your 3 star progress can be brought down to PbP, 2xRS, CSII. That can save you durability and CP.
• INGII is about a 30% boost to progress steps on 3 stars, but less than a 7% boost to touches/BB. If you don't need it to complete your progress, don't use it for BB.

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Oh, I thought I should have as many boosts up as possible. Not sure how many % I would have been at without Ing2, but I will give it a shot.

So I guess I will open with PbP once, then towards the end, I use Ing2 after BB, then do RS x2 and CS2. Does that sound about right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juniglee

MM2 consumes a lot of CP though. Assume minimum 3* craft requirement stats of 393 craft, 375 control, and about 386 CP after HQ Bouillabaise. Unless I don't use Basic Touch at all, and just hang onto every ToT proc, then maaaaaaybe I might be able to go for a 2nd MM2, but otherwise I feel like I will be very CP starved at the end, and not be able to use SH - GS - Ing2 - BB - CS. I ended my File craft at 38 CP remaining, without a 2nd MM2, so I don't know where I would have fit in a 2nd MM2.

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You should not be using Basic Touch except very rarely.

As I said, don't save CP for ing2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

• use PbP outside SHII, it's 90%

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Personally not keen on that one, for the sake of 5cp, can end up needing to spend an extra 15cp and 10 dura.

90% things fail far too frequently for my liking anyway xD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

You should not be using Basic Touch except very rarely.

As I said, don't save CP for ing2.

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Ok will give it a go then. I was under the assumption that I should replace a Hasty Touch with a Basic for every ToT proc, but it's true that will only put me at one possible MM2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juniglee

Ok will give it a go then. I was under the assumption that I should replace a Hasty Touch with a Basic for every ToT proc, but it's true that will only put me at one possible MM2.

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Does not have to be a 2nd Mend2, can be Manip/Mend1, but Mend2 x 2 is the aim.

With CZ used atleast twice, but ideally 3 times.

Again it's situational.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Personally not keen on that one, for the sake of 5cp, can end up needing to spend an extra 15cp and 10 dura.

90% things fail far too frequently for my liking anyway xD

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Like I said, try it and see if you like it. There is no set best way for top level crafting, just good ways and bad ways. Using PbP in or out of SH is good either way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juniglee

So I guess I will open with PbP once, then towards the end, I use Ing2 after BB, then do RS x2 and CS2. Does that sound about right?

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If you use INGII, have it hit BB as well. The PbP, 2xRS, CSII doesn't need INGII to finish if your craftsmanship is high enough, which I think it is if you can attempt 3 stars. Do the 2 RS under SHII early on, get them out of the way so you're not counting on them to hit.

Prioritize building IQ over saving CP for ingenuity and innovation. Another successful touch and another stack will go further than either of those buffs.
If your stacks are maxed, a regular hasty touch is worth as much as adding innovation onto BB with GS (12.5%).
[Maxed IQ brings your control to 300% of base, and innovation adds 50. 50/300 is 12.5%. BB maxes at 300%, which doubles to 600 with GS. A hasty is 100. 100/600 is also 12.5%.]

The key to making the master 2 books is to get more touches than you need to fill IQ.

I don't bother with Ing2. It is too expensive for what it does on 3* IMO. I have Ing1 available for 1-2* where it really helps, and use it on 3* as a filler between GS and BB at the end of I have CP and am fishing for a good condition. I use 3x Rapid 2x CS for 3-stars, with no ingenuity.

http://www.ffxivcrafter.com/

Play with this for a while.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

http://www.ffxivcrafter.com/

Play with this for a while.

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the simulator for 3 and 4* are not accurate, less its been updated recently. Honestly better off practicing on wolfram ingots. Its cheap and if u can get some HQs out of them it can make you some money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

http://www.ffxivcrafter.com/

Play with this for a while.

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Ignore this poster. Downvote Downvote Downvote

SouterTaru and Scarebearz both know what they are talking about. They completely disagree with each other on a lot of points, but both of their styles work. **I've tried both**

I've recently started doing more and more crafts like Stouter Taru, and Find I'm reclaiming less. For Example, I don't use PbP Right away. My rotation is more like this:

Comfort Zone
Inner Quiet
Steady Hand II
ToT / Hasty Touch until SH2 falls off.
Tot / Piece by Piece x2 or until CZ falls off.
Refresh CZ
PbP / CS2 until @ 10/20 Dur
Master's Mend II
Steady Hand 2
ToT/HT until SH2 wears off --and--
Refresh CZ when it wears off
Once at 11 stacks IQ, depending on progress, use Rapid Synth to gain progress. while SH2 is active. CS2 if SH is down.
MM2
SH2
Ht until SH wears off
Great Strides
depending on available CP, I'll ING2 + Innovation to bait good/excellent proc, if I'm low on CP, and have enough durability left, I'll hit Careful Synth instead.
Byregot's Blessing
ING2
Careful Synthesis until complete. Often is only one CS2 left at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

They completely disagree with each other on a lot of points

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:D

To be honest, I tend to agree with StouterTaru's posts more than the majority of crafters on these forums xD

Like you say, there are more than one "correct way" to do these and personal preferance comes into play a lot too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

Ignore this poster. Downvote Downvote Downvote

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Except.. it is accurate. You should try it. And you advocate IG2 and don't use CSII to fish for BB finisher proc. lol

http://i.imgur.com/1MQpZwq.jpg

This was linked to me a long time ago to start off and frankly I think it's the best beginner's rotation to 3 star crafting. I still occasionally use the first rotation now and then.

Manually crafting is however better because you can adapt to situations better but that should be obvious.

The only thing to watch out for post Great Strides is to not stick to the rotation 100% if you get a good or excellent before your supposed to byregots, ignore the ING2 or Innovation and just use Byregots as the bonus from a Innovation or ING or Both will be less then a Good Proc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

http://i.imgur.com/1MQpZwq.jpg

This was linked to me a long time ago to start off and frankly I think it's the best beginner's rotation to 3 star crafting. I still occasionally use the first rotation now and then.

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To be honest I think "rotation's" like that are counter-productive, as they teach people bad habbits. E.g. Replacing Hasty Touch with Basic Touch after every ToT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

To be honest I think "rotation's" like that are counter-productive, as they teach people bad habbits. E.g. Replacing Hasty Touch with Basic Touch after every ToT.

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I would agree with you on that to an extent, but at the same time when you progress to 4 star crafting, anyone will already have some forbearing knowledge that Basic Touch is almost a thing of the past unless you get a lot of ToT at opportune places.

That rotation is linked is one of the safer ones because it provides a lot of ToT chances where as many 4 star "rotations" don't, on top of it's not MMII dependent while also removing the "calculation" aspect of crafting. Masters Mend II while great if you have the CP for it, is not really something to depend on either, because if you get shafted with no ToT procs or not enough (which I'm sure many understand where I'm coming from with that), you may sacrifice more touches for the sake of simply finishing or Reclaim. Rotations that are soluble in CP tend to be sought after for that purpose. 4 Star really just teaches you to depend less on definites for the sake of adding more chances at IQ stacks.

Crafting manually is 100% better due to ability to adapt but that's only really beneficial for Byregot's. You can't guarantee enough CP for MM II (6-8 ToT) across any rotation. While it's sought after (MM II), there are few rotations that can give you 11-12 stacks of IQ and can be solved within CP boundary with no ToTs for 3/4 star which is already overkill if you're using HQ mats, which I would imagine most people would go for with these items.

For 3/4 star, I tend to:
cz
iq
sh2
pbp
rsx2
ht until sh2 drops
refresh cz when it drops and use all tot.
mm2 at 20 dura if sh2 is down 10 dura if not, 10 is preferred. The more CZ used earlier the easier it is to fit in a third and another mm2.
at 20/30 dura, after 2nd mm2, finish with gs bb cs2 (based on your craft skill you may need 3 cs2 on 4 star) Use 1 cs2 before bb if not good or ex (standard fishing technique on 4 star m2 books).

While replacing HT with BT seems like a good idea, even when near capped CP, I would rather just be glad I will have ample cp for a 2nd mm2.

There are times when I know I will not have enough CP to CZ a third time and mm2 a second time. These times are when your experience comes in handy. Myself, I tend to drop the third CZ and just go with mm2. If stacks are high though, I will mm (manipulation if gsm) and drop cz as well. This is a rare occurrence as I will usually just drop CZ and go with it.

To point out, I only make 3 stars as mats for 4 star synths. I am sure there are 100% (with HQ mats) rotations out there, but I always use NQ mats unless I make them myself. The above basic method has worked well for me.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I'm currently doing (very similar to Rath's):

CZ
IQ
SH2
PbP
RS x2
HT until 10 or 20 Durability
MM2

SH2 before starting HT spam, put up CZ anytime it falls off.

Spam until about 20/80, then GS + SH + BB, then CS2 to finish off. No Basic touches were used, unless I saw an Excellent proc (maybe a bad habit I need to get out of?)

Managed to 100% my CRP's Artisan Claw Hammer without too much trouble XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

Except.. it is accurate. You should try it. And you advocate IG2 and don't use CSII to fish for BB finisher proc. lol

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You're right, my post was misleading. I only use ING2 to fish if I have tonnes of CP. It depends on how much progress I have left also. IE, if I need a lot of Progress, I might need ING2 running AFTER the BB o finish he synth. 4 more actions will alwas suffice. Also, if I've already almost completed it, I can't CS2, or I'll finish the synth, so I have to usesomething such as ING2 or Inn. This is all drasticall different every time I synth, because it depends on two large RN factors : how many good procs have I obtained, and how much hasty touches were successful thus far.

I get 90-100% on all of my 3* Synths, even with all NQ materials. 4* I have no problem HQ'ing with about 50% HQ materials.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juniglee

No Basic touches were used, unless I saw an Excellent proc (maybe a bad habit I need to get out of?)

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This may or may not beed a good thing to do.

Depends on your CP, dura, IQ stacks etc.

I'll sometimes Basic on an "Excellent" in the mid to later stages of a craft, but at the beginning without a lot of ToT procs, I usually ignore "Excellent" procs, apart from using Hasty if SH2 is up.