I don't understand what's happening when I play as NIN.

So to kind of be petty and spite the tanks since when I go as Tank and the DPS always does this to me, I've been going into my duty roulettes as NIN, and I push the DPS as hard as I possibly can.

If the Tank is grabbing groups for a big pull, I start applying DoTs to the enemies as we're running to the next group. I put down Doton, and I focus on one enemy and drop it's health to a suitably low point, then move onto the next one, if there's 5 or more, then I go ahead and do Death Blossom, as soon as there's 3 or less enemies left, I go back to single target.



And let me tell you, I pull off usually depending on what's happening. Combining everything together and bursting them down usually nets me a lot of enmity, usually always second on the list. The healer has to work harder most times too because I take one or two hits before the tank reigns everything in, and we go through the dungeon with me front loading my DPS soon as we make contact, after I get Mutilation and Shadow Fang applied anyways.

Yet, no one has said anything to me yet about this. No "Hey, could you not go ham as soon as we get to the enemies?" Or anything like that. I even died on the Kraken in Sastasha HM earlier because the tank didn't let the healer get his MP back, so he was scrapping the barrel for MP while I had top enmity and everything was targeting me so I dropped since squishy.
But I keep getting all the commendations, always as NIN too. I have no idea why I keep getting them from everyone though I'm being a pain even if my numbers are good.

Someone explain this to me.

Because Ninjas are cool. Keep it up mate.

I have noticed this too. I am not super geared or anything, hell only i93/4 or something like that, but I handle my biznezz. From time to time I pull from the tank, and don't get yelled at.

Maybe they look at NIN as the slow kid and don't yell at him coz he don't know no betta...

Heh as bard I'm used at snapping aggro from tanks most of the time. Most tanks will give it one try at regaining agro then let it go.

If you're dealing so much damage that you can pull threat from the tanks, you're probably getting commendations because that amount of DPS (unless the tank has a much lower iLv weapon) is probably pretty impressive.

Just be wary of the healers (like me) who will watch you die if you don't respect your tank's limits and keep pulling threat from him/her (ie. don't be a jerk).

Or most tanks just suck, that might be an other - more plausible - explanation.

Hmm you said you apply dots while running from one group to another. Tanks normally don't hit the mobs to much till they stop. No reason to dot them up anyways. Aoe rotation: BfB IR Katona kassatsu Katona - Death Blossom till ninjitsu is back up.

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Originally Posted by Destinova

Hmm you said you apply dots while running from one group to another. Tanks normally don't hit the mobs to much till they stop. No reason to dot them up anyways.

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^This times a thousand. You could also ask the people you're pulling from instead of a bunch of strangers who've never seen you play. Just because they don't explicitly ask you to change your playstyle doesn't mean they approve of what you're doing.
Also, everyone has a different system for player comms; don't rely on that at all to judge how well you play.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

The healer has to work harder most times too because I take one or two hits before the tank reigns everything in

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Why are you not using Perfect dodge?! Stop making things harder for the poor healer :D

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Originally Posted by Nahara

If you're dealing so much damage that you can pull threat from the tanks, you're probably getting commendations because that amount of DPS (unless the tank has a much lower iLv weapon) is probably pretty impressive.

Just be wary of the healers (like me) who will watch you die if you don't respect your tank's limits and keep pulling threat from him/her (ie. don't be a jerk).

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I can't recall seeing anyone with less than an Animus weapon so far as any of the tanks, most had that or higher. Didn't matter if they were WAR or PLD either, kept pulling off regardless. I only have the Vajras on my NIN since I don't have the gear I want on it yet to warrant using the Diamond Daggers.
Basically, everyone hates me but they're impressed at what I'm doing so they're giving me all the commies?

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Originally Posted by Pots_Talos

Why are you not using Perfect dodge?! Stop making things harder for the poor healer :D

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That quote was hugely relevant to something I did recently, where I wanted to scold a NIN for not using it to dodge one attack that could have prevented him from dying, but now I don't know remember where it was from.

Happens to me on BLM even though I often pull hate from the enemies with my Fire IIs and Flares. Yet, I still often get commendations. Oh well, the more the better!

If you're focusing on a single target of the group to the point that you're about to pull hate, just switch targets until the tank gets things back under control. It's not like you have to kill the mobs in a certain order in most cases (Bees first always, but otherwise it's not relevant unless you're doing a lockout ala WP or Mythlox). How is this not obvious to you?

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Originally Posted by point09micron

If you're focusing on a single target of the group to the point that you're about to pull hate, just switch targets until the tank gets things back under control. It's not like you have to kill the mobs in a certain order in most cases (Bees first always, but otherwise it's not relevant unless you're doing a lockout ala WP or Mythlox). How is this not obvious to you?

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I'm not sure if you saw the part where I'm doing things like that intentionally and getting commendations for it???
This thread is me asking why when I do it on NIN, that people don't say anything about it, and give me all of the commendations.

To reiterate: Do not rely on comms as an accurate measure of anything at all ever, especially skill. People give em for really random reasons: if they q'd as a group of 3 then ur their only option, some people just give out their first 5 randomly for the challenge, etc. Comms are not worthless, but don't try to draw any specific conclusion from their patterns. Just take em as you get em.
To reiterate again: Ask the people you run with, or ask a NIN you know personally to check you out. Just saying "I pull sometimes when I do all sorts of different things, but no one says anything and I get comms" has no helpful information. You could be anywhere on the spectrum from worst to best NIN in the game if that's all the info we have to go on.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

To reiterate: Do not rely on comms as an accurate measure of anything at all ever, especially skill. People give em for really random reasons: if they q'd as a group of 3 then ur their only option, some people just give out their first 5 randomly for the challenge, etc. Comms are not worthless, but don't try to draw any specific conclusion from their patterns. Just take em as you get em.
To reiterate again: Ask the people you run with, or ask a NIN you know personally to check you out. Just saying "I pull sometimes when I do all sorts of different things, but no one says anything and I get comms" has no helpful information. You could be anywhere on the spectrum from worst to best NIN in the game if that's all the info we have to go on.

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If he's intentionally pulling hate off the tank and making things hard for the healer, we all know exactly where he is in that spectrum.

I think the point he is making is he is intentionally squandering the 2 hit advantage most tanks build on the run but doting on the run as well then pulling hate by front loading once the pack has come to a stop. Front loading annoys him when he is tanking but he gets coms percived for doing the same thing he hates. Dps get coms based on kill speed mostly in my experince (this is from occasionally asking people that happen to be on my server, that I happen to get queued up with multiple times a week for wgatever reason). The irony is typically you as a dps will get more coms if you do something stupid to ekk out a little more personal dps even if it is a net dps loss for the group as a whole. OP if it makes you feel better I would not com you if you pulled hate with your front loaded burst. I may com you for pulling hate mid burn depending on if I see you selfmitigate/heal and switch targets or not.

Well, one reason you're getting comms is that no one is really looking at why things happen, just at what happens. They see someone die, it was the healer's fault, no comms for them. They see the tank lose aggro, it's the tank's fault, no comms for them. DPS pulls aggro? Clearly, they must be a better DPS than the other DPS because they're doing more damage. So, "logically," the person who deserves the comms is the "better" DPS.

This means that, even though it's your fault you are pulling aggro from the tank, and your fault you died, and even though the other DPS is doing better at his role by NOT drawing aggro, you emerge looking better than the rest. So, if you want to comm farm and don't care about making every run you're in miserable for the other players, keep it up?

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

This means that, even though it's your fault you are pulling aggro from the tank, and your fault you died, and even though the other DPS is doing better at his role by NOT drawing aggro, you emerge looking better than the rest. So, if you want to comm farm and don't care about making every run you're in miserable for the other players, keep it up?

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Holding aggro is very easy in this game, about 95% of the time if a DPS has aggro it is the tanks fault. Don't be dense. Understand which game you are playing.

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Originally Posted by Lavieh

Holding aggro is very easy in this game, about 95% of the time if a DPS has aggro it is the tanks fault. Don't be dense. Understand which game you are playing.

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"Don't be dense?" Seriously? Degenerating into personal attacks this fast? Wow.

Yeah, so anyway, when a tank is holding aggro on 10+ enemies, and a DPS goes all out on one of them while the other is using AoEs, the tank is going to lose aggro on something even if they're a good tank.

So I am currently levelling a pally tank (lvl 47... almost there...) and I am usually happy about it if a dps manages to pull hate from me. I prefer that everyone in the group is going ham so that the dungeon ends quicker. If a dps manages to get hate from me, then they are putting out some serious harm on an enemy, which i am totally ok with.

And to agree with another point that was made, if I lose hate on an enemy (and I am equal gear level with the person who pulled hate) then it is usually my fault. Part of being a good tank is understanding that there is no consistent rotation to follow. Gotta stay on your toes and try and preemptively spot which enemies will give you aggro problems. It is not like it is difficult to see when a mnk/nin is wrecking a mobs face in, and then to adjust accordingly to make sure that enemy is on you.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

Don't be dense?

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Yet you continue, AoE Threat is so easy now after all of the buffs they gave it. You single target a single mob and a good tank could still easily hold thread. Maybe you think this isn't FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by Tex_Mex

Part of being a good tank is understanding that there is no consistent rotation to follow.

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WAR: Overpower > Overpower > Overpower > Overpower... > Flash when out of TP.
PLD: Flash > Flash > Flash > Flash > Flash, throw in Circle of Scorn when it's up. When MP starts to become an issue, use Flash > Savage Blade > Riot Blade > repeat, again throwing in CoS when available.

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

"Don't be dense?" Seriously? Degenerating into personal attacks this fast? Wow.

Yeah, so anyway, when a tank is holding aggro on 10+ enemies, and a DPS goes all out on one of them while the other is using AoEs, the tank is going to lose aggro on something even if they're a good tank.

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Well..

1) The rank doesn't always have to pull massive groups of enemies.
2) If the DPS can't pull hate off of a tank that feels he/she needs to pull that many enemies, while single targeting to attack.. then your dps players are pretty bad.

Most DPS that do this though are probably thinking, ever enemy the kill quickly, is one less enemy that is hitting the tank. Less heals the healer has to use on the tank.

Also, for most DPS, if they pull hate on an enemy (unless it hits stupid hard ) they should be able to kill it before it kills them.