Hand Of The Gods

You use an oak composite bow +2.
You use a handful of iron spikes +1.
You use a piece of red coral +3.
You use a green megalocrab shell +3.
You use Standard Synthesis. The attempt succeeds!
Progress increases by 13%.
Quality increases by 6.
You use Assemble.
Progress increases by 30%.
Durability decreases by 5.
You use Perfection.
You use Careful Synthesis. The attempt succeeds!
Progress increases by 9%.
Quality increases by 25.
Your Perfection effect fades.
You use Preserve.
You use Standard Synthesis.
Progress increases by 17%.
Durability decreases by 8.
Quality increases by 1.
You use Hand of the Gods.
Your Preserve effect fades.
You use Standard Synthesis. The attempt fails!
Progress increases by 5%.
The harnessed Wind element becomes unstable!
You use Standard Synthesis. The element grows chaotic!
Durability decreases by 2.
Quality decreases by 135.
The harnessed Wind element stabilizes.
You use Standard Synthesis. The attempt fails!
Progress increases by 10%.
The harnessed Ice element becomes unstable!
You use Standard Synthesis. The attempt succeeds!
Progress increases by 12%.
Quality increases by 3.
Your Hand of the Gods effect fades.
You use Standard Synthesis. The attempt succeeds!
Progress increases by 14%.
Quality increases by 5.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 5.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 10.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 7.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 9.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 7.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 10.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 9.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 17.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 6.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 14.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 7.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 15.
You use Touch Up.
Durability decreases by 36.
You botch the synthesis!
You gain 106 woodworking skill points.

Before it blew up i had 271 Quality and 147 Durability at about 80% of the synth.
And then i used Hand Of The Gods...

Clearly the Gods do not act in your favour.

wierd it only going down by 2%, if it glitched i would have expected it to go down alot more than that after a chaotic explosion, but as it being so small not really that huge an issue on this synth though is it?

Wel the problem wasnt the Durability going down by two it was the Quality going down by 135 :)
I was trying to make an hq Crab Bow so i wanted all the quality and the durability.

When you "explode" a unstable element you lose half of your quality.

whats the quality going down have to do with hand of gods, i thought hand of gods stopped durability decreasing? I think my newb crafting skills is failing to grasp the problem XD

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

whats the quality going down have to do with hand of gods, i thought hand of gods stopped durability decreasing? I think my newb crafting skills is failing to grasp the problem XD

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Yea wondering same thing too. I think it does reduce chance of success.

Hand of the Gods

Hand of the gods decreases chances of success of an action. it sometimes decreases it so much it makes harness go
unstable and if it's unstable while u still under the effect of hand of the gods it can grow chaotic and blow for half ur Q...



Hand of the Gods
Action Cost: 7

Alchemy Optimal Rank: 50
Requires: Discipline of the Hand
Cast Time: 0 sec.
Temporarily reduces chances of success while preventing loss of durability. Most effective for finished items.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

whats the quality going down have to do with hand of gods, i thought hand of gods stopped durability decreasing? I think my newb crafting skills is failing to grasp the problem XD

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it doesnt technicaly stop durability from decreasing, it lowers durability losses by 20(which is the max it can go down if its a normal, non-unstable synth)

ahh i see. and i see what yuri is saying that it is a pain in the ass if that happens often, makes the skill a bit pointless for hq, maybe its more to try and finish a synth where you are about to fail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

ahh i see. and i see what yuri is saying that it is a pain in the ass if that happens often, makes the skill a bit pointless for hq, maybe its more to try and finish a synth where you are about to fail.

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its actualy not useless for HQing at all

you get more touchups if you do it succesfuly(blowing up an unstable is something that hurts regardless of what your doing)

I love Hand of the Gods, but it's a capricious little beast. If I don't optimize my conditions then I often end up with half of my quality gone, too.

Since I hate to see that happen, here are some things I do to mitigate the chance:

I like to use HotG during the first half of the synth if it procs, since this is when my chance of success is highest and my risk is lowest.

If the element goes unstable, I just wait it out. This usually looks like

wait/wait/Greater Calling/wait/wait/Resolution/wait/wait

The aim here is for the element to stabilize so that there's no chance of it going chaotic.

Even if you decide to not wait out the instability, you should definitely end HotG, since it only raises your chance to make it go chaotic.

Why would you use a 1-1.5 million gil mat for a +3 crab bow attempt? Both the +3s I've made were with NQ and +1 oak bows. Problem with these things is people aren't willing to pay what they're worth, so you shouldn't throw +2 oak bows in there. When you start doing things like that you'd make more money by selling the mats to some lazy guy than you would trying to sell +3 crab bows.

Anyway you should never synth through an unstable element if you care about quality. I don't care if I have to pop all my available abilities to reset the waits I will keep waiting it out. My quality is more important than that.

I hope SE fixes that fact someday.
The fact that some can make a +3 out of all NQ mats on a piece that some other only +1 or NQ with all +2, +3 mats and perfect synths.
Makes no sense.

Oh you will never make a +3 crab bow from all NQ mats. +2 if you're lucky... My +3s have come from these:

Red coral +3
Crab shell +3
Oak bow +1
Iron spikes +1

Red coral +3
Crab shell +3
Oak bow NQ
Iron spikes +3

Higher quality mats always help since the higher the quality the higher the chance for a higher HQ. For the smallest chance of a +3 you only need about 170 or so quality however. Get that over 270 or so and your chances will increase again. Who knows how the formula works but it's clear higher quality = higher chance. It should never be as simple as instant +3 with +3 mats or you flood the market.

When I make oak bows I always sell the +2 and +3s, just not worth synthing them for what could be a worthless NQ or +1 crab bow.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

Oh you will never make a +3 crab bow from all NQ mats. +2 if you're lucky... My +3s have come from these:

Red coral +3
Crab shell +3
Oak bow +1
Iron spikes +1

Red coral +3
Crab shell +3
Oak bow NQ
Iron spikes +3

Higher quality mats always help since the higher the quality the higher the chance for a higher HQ. For the smallest chance of a +3 you only need about 170 or so quality however. Get that over 270 or so and your chances will increase again. Who knows how the formula works but it's clear higher quality = higher chance. It should never be as simple as instant +3 with +3 mats or you flood the market.

When I make oak bows I always sell the +2 and +3s, just not worth synthing them for what could be a worthless NQ or +1 crab bow.

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maybe it's just bows then, I've made +3 jewelry out of all NQ materials, and I have received a +1 from as little as 40 quality. Would be interesting to know just what the tiers and percentages really are.

Ya a friend made +3 Armored Caligae from all NQ mats and so did another friend with an Iron Celata +3..

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Originally Posted by Bigglesworth

maybe it's just bows then, I've made +3 jewelry out of all NQ materials, and I have received a +1 from as little as 40 quality. Would be interesting to know just what the tiers and percentages really are.

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I got a +1 electrum ring from 6 quality after It went chotic XD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

I got a +1 electrum ring from 6 quality after It went chotic XD

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This game's logics of HQing never stop to amaze me...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

its more to try and finish a synth where you are about to fail.

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^
This exactly. A synth 5 above your level often goes wrong at 70% Hands of God gives you a chance to complete it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bigglesworth

maybe it's just bows then, I've made +3 jewelry out of all NQ materials, and I have received a +1 from as little as 40 quality. Would be interesting to know just what the tiers and percentages really are.

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It's all based on quality. If you can push the quality on NQ mats high enough you can +3 it. But you won't be able to push the quality on crab bow synth with NQ mats high enough for a +3. This is because of the rank of synth makes obtaining quality harder.

You need a minimum amount of quality to get to a tier of HQ, most people speculate that it's something like this:

+1 - 0+
+2 - 70+
+3 - 170+

But then I further speculate that each level will increase the chance of the HQ further, for example you've a higher chance of getting a +2 at 170 quality than at 70, and 370 will give you a higher chance of a +3 than 170. But nothing is guaranteed. The formula is almost certainly a sliding scale where increasing quality increases chance of +1/2/3s.

I find I HQ more from touch ups than the finished synth, which is why HQing anything that isn't a finished item is a pain in the ass. Touch ups still use your quality, I see it the same was as finishing the synth for the first time, just another roll on the HQ lottery.

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I find I HQ more from touch ups than the finished synth

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On this note, HQ chances appear to be the same during touch-ups.

Chance of No HQ = (1 - HQ Chance)^(1 + No of Touch-ups)
E.g. 5% HQ chance, with 5 touch-ups => Chance of HQ = 1 - (0.95)^6

Tymora, where did you come up with your formula?

Looking at your log for the actions leading up to the chaotic explosion that halved your quality, I'm wondering why you didn't just "wait" out the unstable. When I'm doing HQ attempts i never use any action on unstable orbs unless i have Perfection up. Its much better to spend 10-20 durability tops "waiting" then losing half your quality. You can also use abilities to reset your wait counter if they come up before the orb calms down.

HOTG is still a great ability to use for HQing, but its also good to know it's limits. My typical HQ set up for abilities is HOTG, Perfection, Ingenuity, and Harmonize. You can add in additional filler abilities as needed that can be used to add additional wait resets.

For those that are not familiar with a "wait reset", waits take increasing amounts of durability each time it's used and any ability you use will reset the wait amount back down to 1.

Just some observational insight on the ability Preserve. Preserve doesn't affect Risk it only forces the orb state to remain white, which from experience is bad since orb state is the best indicator of overall risk. The best analogy i can use is imagine a moldy wall, that you cover with a few coats of white paint. It's still a moldy wall. Use Harmonize instead, you won't be sorry.

Interesting set of abilities there Twinkles. My HQ setup for high end items is usually Perfection, Assemble, Hand of the Gods and Epiphany.

I use Assemble because it's a guaranteed 30% progress which can be great to either get that synth finished during an unstable element at 70%+ or if you've had a rough synth and want to get it done to have more durability for touch ups. Sometimes I'll swap Assemble for Inspiration however, depends on the rank of the synth and definitely if it's not a finished item.

Just looked up Ingenuity, it looks very good depending on how much it reduces difficulty. I may test that next time I'm making something tough and swap it with Epiphany.

The real question is: "Why didn't you use the wait command until the unstable element disapeared?" It's like you wanted to lose all that quality. You should know HotG decreases your chance to succeed. (And thereby increasing your chance for an element to destabilize...).

For shame.

On another note, each touch up is the same as making another item of the same durability/quality. Therefore touching up one item 10 times is the same as making 11 of the -exact- same item (with same Quality/Durability/Risk/Etc...)

So if your HQ chance is 1/100 then you could make any number of items and use touch up enough times to hit your HQ possibility, unfortunately with items that do not allow touch ups youd have to make 100 of them. Hence why it seems easier to HQ touch up items. (And time wise it is.) But mathematically its not.

I keep trying to figure out what the optimal left over durability is for touch ups. It seems if you have too much you end up with some horrible touch ups that take 25-35 towards the end. I normally aim for around 90 minimum.

How many times do u use wait till it goes off??
I usually use it so many times i get about 40+ dura loss due to waits even if i use other skills to reset itand it still stays put as being unstable, it mostly just never goes away lol.
And i though Dura was needed for touche ups at the end. t thought the more Dura the more touche ups the more chance of HQ o.O...
Also i have so many times gone through a whole synth being unstable by just spamming standard and it didnt explode.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xenor

It's all based on quality. If you can push the quality on NQ mats high enough you can +3 it. But you won't be able to push the quality on crab bow synth with NQ mats high enough for a +3. This is because of the rank of synth makes obtaining quality harder.

You need a minimum amount of quality to get to a tier of HQ, most people speculate that it's something like this:

+1 - 0+
+2 - 70+
+3 - 170+

But then I further speculate that each level will increase the chance of the HQ further, for example you've a higher chance of getting a +2 at 170 quality than at 70, and 370 will give you a higher chance of a +3 than 170. But nothing is guaranteed. The formula is almost certainly a sliding scale where increasing quality increases chance of +1/2/3s.

I find I HQ more from touch ups than the finished synth, which is why HQing anything that isn't a finished item is a pain in the ass. Touch ups still use your quality, I see it the same was as finishing the synth for the first time, just another roll on the HQ lottery.

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I've seen like 5 different sets of this kind of HQing chance patterns by people.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

I've seen like 5 different sets of this kind of HQing chance patterns by people.

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I don't think anyone knows the exact formula. We just speculate based on experience. It's clear however that you need a minimum amount of quality to be able to reach the next tier of HQ. No one knows for sure what it is but you can get a good idea from experience.

For waits you should be aiming for something like 1, 2, 3, 4, ability, 1, 2 3, 4 etc. Usually that will have cleared any unstable element but you get some annoying ones that can take up two or even three abilities. Still better than losing your quality.

Durability is only good if you have the quality to begin with, for the reason I mentioned above. You won't +3 anything if you just knocked your quality from 250 to 125.

Ya same goes for the oposite u wont get an hq with 250 Quality and 46 Durability. . .
If my synth starts with 143 Durability and after 10 waits and a few failed actions ends up with 65 thats pretty much a done>

I completely disagree with that. I've +3ed on the first touch up before and 46 durability is more than enough to get one touch up. Additionally I've HQed plenty times without having to touch up. 65 is quite high durability, I normally aim for 90+ but I can still get 5-6 touch ups from 65.

Barbarian's Bardiche synth..

Scale Glue +3
Mahogany Branch +3
Silver Nugget +3
Basilisk Whetstone +3
Iron Axe Ferrule +2
Buffalo Leather Strap +2
Buffalo Horn
Bloody Bardiche Head


Turned into an NQ axe with R50 BSM & R50 TAN
What a bad joke.
I ought to go into all caps rage and smash my monitor with my face and kill all the cute puppies in the world.
while i burn in hate after this event.