Party Finder fail x times = kick

What does this actually mean btw? Recently i join party finder a lot to get faster access in extreme primals hoping to get them ponies, this phrase has been said a lot in party finder along with 100% or full exp stuffs, but the way i see it, people are failing x times, and yet they dont get kicked, even the pf maker fails a lot at times, and i'm seeing them parties got disbanded after that, i've never seen someone actually get kicked from failing.. Do people actually get kicked from failing and they continue on without the player or else?
Just to feed my curiousity..

They probably put that in their announce to write off any newbies not confident with the tactics etc.

In short, even if the party finder maker sucks, he hopes to get carried. lol

OR too many people failed and the pt leader does not even bother to find out who was sucked. DISBAND!!!! Simple, Quick and Effective.

These PF ads always make me laugh. When I come home from a crappy day at work, and am feeling a bit down... gazing over the plethora of ridiculous PF ads always makes me feel just a little bit better.

I failed so many times, never had a successful attempt and only got kicked once. I'm improving though.

When I join parties like this, the leader is usually fair. They go, "Now look, I'm sorry so and so, but if you keep making us wipe I'm going to have to replace you." I don't put this in my PFs because it makes me feel like I'm some elitist and I don't like being "that guy", but I get very upset when I make a farm group in PF and some people play like its their first time doing the instance.

It often means that the PF group leader has no clue on what (s)he's doing, is looking for a quick and easy carry, and is obviously not going to work if other people come in who also don't know what they're up against.

My experience has been the same as the above posters: its usually the party leader being bad. I LOVE joining these groups as Tank and after the leader fails X times saying "Sorry guy the leader failed so its time to remove myself from his group" =P

Somewhere around 99.9% of the people that join "experienced clears only" pf groups fail super hard. Like, obviously don't even know what to do in phase 1 fail.

Well, it's true, if i were to judge myself, i cant really tell who is failing especially in later extreme primal fights, the aoe is somewhat involve more than 1 person, hailstorm/ thunderstorm for example, will be lethal if there are 2 stacks. So getting hit by aoes aint really a specific player's fault.. Or them solo tanking method without healer/smn gives virus and tank died abruptly with more than half hp intact.. Heck i never even see a blm gives me that magic def buff as a tank.. But it's just weird that people put these ads on pf and not really enforcing it, unless of course, it's like what hyunckel said, to scare off shy noob..

My expectation was somewhat people are using parser, keeping vid to see in detail who's doing epic fails.. Guess that isnt the case..

And yeah in my view be it farm/full exp/training is pretty much the same in pf, and pf makes the environment more ellitist compared to df..

Fail usually means if you wipe the party. if you die 1 or two times its normally no issue to get you back up and kill it still.

PF = Pseudo-Farm

I've seen the so called "elites" or some raiding FC all with T9 clears screw up on thunder and divebombs and then rage quit, finger point, and/or get into name calling hissy fits. If you don't put in time to build you static, recruit people do NOT expect the PF to magically find you a perfect farm group. It is a miracle once a every 50 blue moons or something when that happens.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

do NOT expect the PF to magically find you a perfect farm group. It is a miracle once a every 50 blue moons or something when that happens.

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Of course. Because as you were telling everyone a couple months ago, any not experienced player is allowed to join farm group, and other players must teach him how to do this battle and wipe again and again until he gets it. Or have you finally changed your mind about farm groups?

It's irritating how you guys are so quick to accuse people of being elitist if they actually put standards for people to meet if they apply to their pf. Yeah, some of them may be douches looking for a carry (though in my experience they usually mention it) but a good number of them are probably people who have sat through learning parties, whether formed on pf or not, and experienced plenty of wipes. Eventually they probably got to the point where they had the fight down but the parties kept wiping due to other peoples' actions. Why are they not allowed to to ask for other people to at least have as much experience as themselves? When I'm looking to clear something multiple times over the course of an hour how is it elitist for me to ask that only people who are capable of doing just that join my party?

As for op, I've never seen anyone kicked out of those parties because I never join them. I have seen people kicked out of parties when they were obviously becoming a liability (they joined as a replacement and suddenly we start wiping) or were being very obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

Of course. Because as you were telling everyone a couple months ago, any not experienced player is allowed to join farm group, and other players must teach him how to do this battle and wipe again and again until he gets it. Or have you finally changed your mind about farm groups?

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I've NOT changed my position. There should be NO farm groups on the PF period because it simply does NOT exist on a consistent basis, and people can't force it to happen anyways. So be real, help people learn and help people clear. You are usually begging and hoping a good tank or healer would join too, so it is really their kindness that is making things possible. I don't need people who bought their clears from clear sellers acting all high an mighty and cussing at everyone else. So farm only when you get lucky. So PF = pseudo farm.

Do tryouts for your static, add subs to your static so you can farm the the non-lockout stuff. The more you help others learn and clear the larger the pool of players to draw upon to farm. It is just simple enlightened self interest playing the long game. BTW one time we had this clear party trying to help 1 newer member clear, and after a few initial wipes, we actually farmed T9 for total of 4 clears in a row, that was simply magical (even though RNG craps on me and only got the sands), and has not been reproduced since in all my attempts to get that weapon drop.

Hollow threats like kick after X whatevers is NOT going to work. Half the time, the people can't even tell who is really screwing up. And for those that think the parser is magical, someone may be parsing low because they were killed by someone else. And who do you blame for tether-charge when people not stacking properly for Imdugud?

My experience joining T9 PF farms. Either people are so used to doing it one way or people don't know how to adjust etc.

Or people got carried/looking to carry.

I've had most of them get to elementals but fuck up thunder.

I've also had groups fuck up meteor placements because someone decided to not care in 3-3-2 that the Ranged got 4 meteors in a row and that's why you pre-agree on direction and starting point.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

And who do you blame for tether-charge when people not stacking properly for Imdugud?

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We have people marked 1,2,3 there for this mechanics. On tether-charge, people marked 1 and 2 (+OT) stack with tethered person. if 1 or 2 has charge, person number 3 (it's me..) replaces that person. So if we wipe on tether+charge, it's either 1 or 2 did not stack, when they should, or 3 did not replace one of them when he should. So I clearly know who I should blame.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

.. So I clearly know who I should blame.

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If it were only that obvious. What happens when the tether moves late or the charge moves late or both and people are scrambling and adjusting? People are NOT machines and even machines screw up at time, e.g. lag. I would rather give people the benefit of the doubt and as long as see that people are putting in a earnest effort to try, and not deliberately wiping, it is really all you can hope for.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

If it were only that obvious. What happens when the tether moves late or the charge moves late or both and people are scrambling and adjusting? People are NOT machines and even machines screw up at time, e.g. lag. I would rather give people the benefit of the doubt and as long as see that people are putting in a earnest effort to try, and not deliberately wiping, it is really all you can hope for.

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If tether moved to position late, usually person who had tether says, that he moved late. It's ok to admit a mistake and fix it next time. It's how our performance as a group improves. We don't just throw ourselves against the mechanics until we somehow succeed. We watch who does what mistakes, think about how to prevent them or at least make them less likely to happen.

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

...It's ok to admit a mistake and fix it next time. ... think about how to prevent them or at least make them less likely to happen.

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That is what good parties do. And hollow threats like kick after X whatevers do NOT automatically get you the good party, and it can actually lead to people pointing fingers and sometimes even deliberate outright lying and misplacing blame, or people just refuse to say anything.

More experienced players know accidents happen, and sometimes the RNG gods and lag monsters conspire to kill you.
I've been the "last man standing" on primal fights more times than I can count, yet sometimes I still get nailed by mechanics.
I only kick people who unequivocally suck at the fight and aren't even trying to correct behavior. For primals other than Titan and Ifrit EX (mostly because I HATE the former and no one does the latter) i've done them so much I can focus on others while still doing my job. Especially Shiva.
So when I make shiva farm parties, i specify that if you, personally, die to a single mechanic more than twice in a row, then it's the boot for you.

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Originally Posted by NozomiKei

Why are they not allowed to to ask for other people to at least have as much experience as themselves? When I'm looking to clear something multiple times over the course of an hour how is it elitist for me to ask that only people who are capable of doing just that join my party?

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This is debatable actually, as i think how can one decide whether or not someone can join to your party simply because they deserve it.. It is an act of being an elite.. While of course it's understandable to put requirement for performing a duty simply because it's an agreement

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Originally Posted by Laladyn

Fail usually means if you wipe the party. if you die 1 or two times its normally no issue to get you back up and kill it still.

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That means that the weight people put on healers and tanks would be very heavy, because in dpsing, there are 3 or 4 other dps which can make up the lacking one.. Sad to be healers or tanks at times..

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Originally Posted by vp_cmc

it's ok to admit a mistake and fix it next time. It's how our performance as a group improves.

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I've seen a main tank actually got 4 stack of water debuff from levi's dive in fail 1 = kick farm party, now since we got a very good healer, the party turned out fine anyway.. It's rare of someone admitting mistake, but it's common to point out people's mistake or even saying that one person is doing it wrong simply because difference in strategy..

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

That is what good parties do. And hollow threats like kick after X whatevers do NOT automatically get you the good party, and it can actually lead to people pointing fingers and sometimes even deliberate outright lying and misplacing blame, or people just refuse to say anything.

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If the party leader can't figure out who screwed up, it will fail anyway

Heh. I love joining KILL parties in PF. Why? Because those people are actually working on clearing it. Most "Farm" parties I've joined tended to be... wipe at start cause nobody was paying attention at pull, wipe at DPS check cause people are slacking or half dead, wip after that to many times to count because people zone out. So yeah I prefer a kill party and if I see they know the stuff I can start counting that sol bonus and possibly a loot drop or two(given my luck though usually 0).

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

Hollow threats like kick after X whatevers is NOT going to work. Half the time, the people can't even tell who is really screwing up. And for those that think the parser is magical, someone may be parsing low because they were killed by someone else. And who do you blame for tether-charge when people not stacking properly for Imdugud?

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If someone is using the ACT parser then I would hope that they would be intelligent enough to look at combat events which show debuffs, damage taken (from source), damage dealt to target(s), etc. Tether-Charge screw ups in particular can be seen by looking at combat events and checking time stamped Vulnerability Up debuffs, then checking Wild Charge damage. You can even go deeper and call out DPS that are popping stuff like Blood for Blood at bad times which end up with them taking sometimes unhealable damage or getting one shot.

Then again, I rarely join PFs nowadays mostly because I've found that a lot of people join or create "farm" PFs when they have no business being in a farm group.

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Originally Posted by NyarukoW

PF = Pseudo-Farm

I've seen the so called "elites" or some raiding FC all with T9 clears screw up on thunder and divebombs and then rage quit, finger point, and/or get into name calling hissy fits. If you don't put in time to build you static, recruit people do NOT expect the PF to magically find you a perfect farm group. It is a miracle once a every 50 blue moons or something when that happens.

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This is only because of people who do NOT heed the recruitment demands and waste people's time. When I used to play on Japanese servers, when people requested experienced players for a farm, in 95% cases it was a farm. This attitude towards PF is a direct result of "Oh, it's PF anyway, I can just do whatever because I can play however I want".

And people who create PFs with demands expect to be carried? Don't make me laugh. How salty can you get? So many times we used to make incomplete parties asking for people who've cleared only to discover upon zoning that somebody hasn't, and joined without even saying a word!

My standards for farm parties are usually 3 failed attempts -> disband, without pointing fingers explicitly.

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Originally Posted by Karen_Cerfrumos

And people who create PFs with demands expect to be carried? Don't make me laugh. How salty can you get?

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I can confirm this.. While its not really carry per se, there exists people who have mindset that they can clear contents if they find them 7 other people to "help" them.. Few of em actually live to see the end, some of them die like very fast, some die half of the process..

The only thing that would never be labeled as a carry would be if those 7 others are from fc/ls.. But that's just it..

And why people even leave when the pf is labeled as training anyway? It should be meant as train to get better, so wipes are unavoidable..

The only reason why people would leave in a training party is because they see no decent progress and there is no point to keep going. Like my experience in Titan EX,spent 90 mins in there, just to see the same 5 people's death right because of Plums. Went in the second time, the same 5 people still were dying to the same mechanic, Plums. So I and the other two decided to leave,seeing as,well you know what @-@

I actually see a different case where the ones who die was the one who left.. Feeling guilty, else or what? Not saying a word then just leave..

I don't join farm groups for fights like T9 or Ramuh ex. That's something I'll farm with my static, FC, or close friends. The problem with those fights in PF is that they require coordination and strategies vary between groups wildly. So, if everyone isn't on the same page, perfectly good players are viciously attacked by other good players that simply do things differently. I want no parts of that. Periodically, I'll join semi-learning/clear parties because I enjoy helping others get their clears. Plus, the extra soldiery is nice :-). Then, if the group sticks together, it may become a successful farm because we've spent significant time with one another using the same strategy.

In general, I'm very selective with PF farms that I join. And it's because people can be so cruel in farm parties.

As for loot lockouts, I don't do that in any PF I host. I wouldn't assume that the people hosting loot lockout farms are bad people or anything like that. I just don't believe in it. I make a simple loot list macro and cap each item at two lots so that everyone has a fair shot at the items they want.