aussie ninja's

How bad do you find the mudra lag? Even with a vpn, i find it under performing compared to my drg with similar gear, which is extremely annoying as i really wanted to main this class. How are we supposed to improve when our internet connection determines how much damage a ninja can do?

It's not just you guys who are experiencing it. I'm in Japan and the mudra lag post 2.45 is appalling. Then again as of late around this time I post I've been getting booted from the game for no reason. Not my internet either as I can pull up videos and it auto sets it to 720p and is fully loaded almost right away or I get about 9mb dl on a steam game. They fucked up something that's all I know.

The only time I mess up my mudras is when I forget about them and I do Mutilate instead of my Ninjutsu >.>. If you like NIN then you just have to deal with the abilities the way they are, you play your job because it is your job and because you like it.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

The only time I mess up my mudras is when I forget about them and I do Mutilate instead of my Ninjutsu >.>. If you like NIN then you just have to deal with the abilities the way they are, you play your job because it is your job and because you like it.

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People shouldn't have to deal with the way they are. This is a failure on SE's part to make it to where anyone anywhere can use the same job whether they're next door to the server or in Australia. They know about this issue but have gone on the record saying they don't give a crap at the moment. They need to be held accountable for such a half assed system they put in place.

Some days it's better than others for me. It really wasnt that bad until 2.45 now it's just awful. Ive been practicing and can do a little better with it now but its far too easy for the lag to mess it up and waste the 20second cooldown as it is.

Press 1-2-3, then Ninjutsu, well at least that was the plan. In reality, when there is a spike, you press 1-2-3, it will be either 2-3,1-3 or even only 1 or 2 or 3. So either you waste extra time, in turn reduce your DPS,to track down the correct order, if not fix it or accept the bunny which is also stupid and lower your DPS. Either way, your DPS will never be as high as it should be, optimally.

Solution to Mudra lag, as an Australian Ninja:
-Press first mudra in the combo you wish to use.
-wait a a half second for Mudra buff to apepar on your effect bar.
-Press the next two Mudras as fast as you like.
-wait a half second for the effect to apply proper.
-Now you can Ninjutsu.

The total time is around 2 seconds. Less than a standard action, but not perfect by any means. This is how i get my Ninjutsu's to trigger perfectly, every time.

By doing so in the process, you lost HIP of your DPS. No kidding. And you are screwed if there is suddenly lag spike

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Originally Posted by LionKing

By doing so in the process, you lost HIP of your DPS. No kidding. And you are screwed if there is suddenly lag spike

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iIdid say it wasn't perfect.
You lose more by screwing yourself out of your intended Ninjutsu for 20 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Solution to Mudra lag, as an Australian Ninja:
-Press first mudra in the combo you wish to use.
-wait a a half second for Mudra buff to apepar on your effect bar.
-Press the next two Mudras as fast as you like.
-wait a half second for the effect to apply proper.
-Now you can Ninjutsu.

The total time is around 2 seconds. Less than a standard action, but not perfect by any means. This is how i get my Ninjutsu's to trigger perfectly, every time.

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Ideal opening rotation you would end up losing 4 seconds according to this and then another 2 seconds on what should be your 3rd mudra cast before a Huton recast. The ideal rotation with minimal delay, time to get that 3rd one in before it ticks to 20 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

Ideal opening rotation you would end up losing 4 seconds according to this and then another 2 seconds on what should be your 3rd mudra cast before a Huton recast. The ideal rotation with minimal delay, time to get that 3rd one in before it ticks to 20 seconds.

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Lose 4 seconds, or lose 20 seconds. Your choice.

They asked for a way to get around the Mudra lag screwing up and costing the entire 20 second recast.
I gave a way to guarantee the Ninjutsu. Playing with any kind of latency is ALWAYS going to screw up your DPS timers. You can't get around that. You just do what you can to mitigate the loss.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

iIdid say it wasn't perfect.
You lose more by screwing yourself out of your intended Ninjutsu for 20 seconds.

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I was not criticising your post. More like we Aussies Ninja should not be suffered like this in the first place. Ping/lag Spike should not heavily affect our performance. On any other jobs, there is no such thing. On Ninja, Mudra HEAVILY rely on Ping/Lag Spike/Traffic to actually be good and for those like us, it is a MASSIVE disadvantage

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Lose 4 seconds, or lose 20 seconds. Your choice.

They asked for a way to get around the Mudra lag screwing up and costing the entire 20 second recast.
I gave a way to guarantee the Ninjutsu. Playing with any kind of latency is ALWAYS going to screw up your DPS timers. You can't get around that. You just do what you can to mitigate the loss.

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I understand that but that 4-6 seconds that AU, NZ and other players far from a data center is pretty unacceptable on SE's part. Especially for a job that has a short cast timer in it. It's a work around that is there because SE doesn't want to fix the issue itself.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

I was not criticising your post. More like we Aussies Ninja should not be suffered like this in the first place. Ping/lag Spike should not heavily affect our performance. On any other jobs, there is no such thing. On Ninja, Mudra HEAVILY rely on Ping/Lag Spike/Traffic to actually be good and for those like us, it is a MASSIVE disadvantage

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I understand that, Ive been playing MMOS for years (Even on dialup).

The only way we Australians will get rid of the Mudra is to have Australian servers.
As that would cost far too much for SE to do because yay Australia, the alternative to alter the way Mudras interact with the server.
My only suggestion for fixing it is to make Mudras client side only.
Then give us the option (retaining the functionality of the Ninjutsu button that changes automatically) of using the individual Job Skills (They're there in the Job Skill List).
Basically,
Current - Mudra (Wait) Mudra (Wait) Mudra (Wait) Ninjutsu. <- this would be what the US and JPN people with good ping use.
With the client side activation, it would go - Mudra+Mudra+Mudra (wait) /ac Huton.

It would allow us to set the combo locally, and send that to the server to enable Huton to be cast. (personally, I'd just use the same macro sets i use for for my Monk for alternating Twin Snakes with Demolish on one button)
That would reduce the lag we face to the same as what we wait for activating things like Swiftcast.

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

I understand that but that 4-6 seconds that AU, NZ and other players far from a data center is pretty unacceptable on SE's part. Especially for a job that has a short cast timer in it. It's a work around that is there because SE doesn't want to fix the issue itself.

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Well i can understand SE not wanting to invest in the creation of internet services that bend time and space to overcome the basic laws of distance affecting Latency.

It's incredibly annoying as I'm pretty much forced to use the only other dps class i like (dragoon) to actually stand a chance at clearing t9+. Otherwise i would be doing too little dps. It's extremely disappointing that they said it's not a priority as well.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

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Other MMO's take into account when creating mechanics for jobs and encounters that take into account for things like this. SE is really the only one that goes "Well it's your problem you live in a country with shite internet so go away stop bothering us."
Everything here is done server side so we ping with a skill to go off and then it reaches the server saying it did. Other MMO's have it done client side and then pings back to the server saying they did it. So stuff like Hallowed, Benediction, and Mudra's suffer greatly from this.

The lag wasnt that bad till the 2.4 patches started coming in. Now it only gets worst after every patch it seems. using the VPN to help with it doesnt really help too much at least not to make a difference. (singapore here)

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Originally Posted by Amiantos

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It has little do with Internet speeds.
It has pretty much everything to do with distance and routes. Convince SE to put some Servers in Australia and watch the problem vanish.
I have a line speed of 100/40 mbps (Yay pre-liberal NBN), and i still get spiky latency to the servers, the most likely cause of this is bad routing between myself and the server.

People like you just need to understand that you DO NOT have a direct, one piece line from your PC to the Server. You're bouncing your signal through dozens if not hundreds of nodes to get the server. And if any one of those nodes buggers up for any reason whatsoever, congrats on your lag spike.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

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One of my friends in the AU plays WoW on a NA server and is able to raid just fine. Where as he quit 14 because he couldn't do jack shit because of latency issues after he hit 50 when playing on a NA server. SE chose the half assed route and always has done so with their MMO's on making the accessible to people in terms of this. They chose to make end game a version of Jump Rope and expected people to have top tier connection while they funnel their shit through a half assed tier connection.

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Originally Posted by LionKing

I was not criticising your post. More like we Aussies Ninja should not be suffered like this in the first place. Ping/lag Spike should not heavily affect our performance. On any other jobs, there is no such thing. On Ninja, Mudra HEAVILY rely on Ping/Lag Spike/Traffic to actually be good and for those like us, it is a MASSIVE disadvantage

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It's not just NIN, nin is just the most noticeable to be affected by latency because you can clearly see it with the way mudra is designed. Other jobs are actually affected as well. Bad latency affects the GCD which results in doing less attacks over time compared to a player with good latency. It's always been this way. I transferred off the NA datacentre onto the JP datacentre and my WAR dps over an entire fight went up 20 just from that. My latency is currently half what it was on my old server.

As has been stated in this thread, the only way to fix this is to have an oceanic based datacentre.

Although, in saying that, FFXIV has to be the worst MMO I've played for latency. It's like it's affected more by bad latency than other MMOs. I suspect there is some programming flaw behind this, perhaps the game being reliant too much on server side updating. I know WoW handled a lot of actions client side then passed it on to the server, I suspect it's the other way around for FFXIV. This is obviously the case with positioning, I played WoW with 300ms+ and never had trouble dodging AoEs. SE probably could have done something to negate this back when they were programming the original game, but now it's a bit too late.

"Nunchuks? Those aren't even Australian!" :p

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist that seeing the thread title. :D

Seriously though, I can probably safely say that realistically, SE will never add Australian-specific servers - the fact there isn't even European-specific servers (a far larger player population region which the Australian version is actually lumped with), shows this only too well. In the grand scheme of things, Australia/New Zealand/Oceania is literally just a drop in the ocean (no pun intended) as far as player population is concerned to warrant the excessive financial investment on SE's part to set up an Australian-based server group, with little return on such an investment to them. That's just being realistic.

The NIN Mudra lag can be an issue, but I find I often have more of a problem just screwing up the combination by accidentally hitting some other skill or ability simply because I'm uncoordinated. :p As others have said, if you don't hurriedly input the combo then there is less chance of lag spikes screwing it up. Once again, learning to pace yourself in the game makes things so much easier, as a lot of the game's issues originate in players rushing things.

And for the record, I'm Australian too (born and lived in Perth all my life). ;)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Seriously though, I can probably safely say that realistically, SE will never add Australian-specific servers - the fact there isn't even European-specific servers (a far larger player population region which the Australian version is actually lumped with), shows this only too well. In the grand scheme of things, Australia/New Zealand/Oceania is literally just a drop in the ocean (no pun intended) as far as player population is concerned to warrant the excessive financial investment on SE's part to set up an Australian-based server group, with little return on such an investment to them. That's just being realistic.

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There might not be European servers now, but there will be. They already have plans to move the EU servers to a datacentre over there around the time of the expansion. It's been confirmed.

So the precedent has been set, which leads oceanic players to ask, why can't we have servers too? Tonberry alone has a large population of oceanic players, add that to the oceanic crowd spread over all the servers and, while it may not be as many as EU has, there might just be more out there than you think.

But yeah, no major title MMO has ever had an Australia based server, so I don't see SE doing it either, but wouldn't it be game changing if they did? There are other issues as well, like Duty Finder. The oceanic community would only require a single server, so how does DF work then... They certainly couldn't match people up with the NA servers or even the JP ones, the server delay would be so screwy. From the dev teams perspective, that's probably even more of a reason not to do it than the financial cost is.

In the end, the closest we are going to get to it is Tonberry server. Although you'll have to get used to running with Japanese speaking people in DF.