What are your opinions on DD and AV being in the new relic quest?

I'm pretty salty about it XD
(AV) Most of the times, they ask for full runs. That lasts 40+ minutes. Even when we skip the mobs, it's 30+ minutes. I honestly rather take the 30 minute penalty than do full clears for a chance at the item drop.

As for DD, I just don't understand it. I never had an issue of entering this dungeon as a DPS.

DD is the worst dungeon in the whole game.

-As a DPS it takes forever to get entry
-Your level, stats and skills are heavily restricted, you are basically crippled
-The whole dungeon is VERY long and with the wrong df+new people can be very difficult
-It's extremely dull, boring and dark
-Has too many trash mobs
-Doesn't give any tomes so you can't even add anything to the 6000+ sol needed
-It's a f-ing mess.

What annoys me the most is that most people seem to get their drop in DD on their first or second run. But I'm one of those who got stuck on it, having to spam the dungeon over and over again.
AV is okay, at least it's pretty and can be enjoyable.

Only difficulty in DD is the frogs knocking you downstairs and the second boss when you got handicaped slow reacting players... What a pain. Otherwise it's not hard at all. Not so long either. Takes 30 min to complete. Not really more than 15-25 min waiting time as dps.

AV on the other hand... Takes forever to enter. You have 90% chance of getting people who want to skip half the trash (and fail to do so-> body pull everything -> Rage quit, true story, and that was an ilv110 paladin lmao). Making this a waste of time for leveling people to lv50. Better off farming DD first room or Cerileum FATEs. No wonder AV has a gigantic queue time

Crafting side I like their inclusion for increasing the value and desirability of gear equipable in the level 45 to level 49 range. Runs are very different when people are wearing level appropriate unsynced gear. A Paladin armed with a HQ Goblin Longsword (level 45, i48) and HQ Vintage Kite Shield (level 45, i48) is 10% to 15% stronger than a Paladin using synced i50+ weapons in both dungeons.

They were probably added to make more people run them to completion, as when lvling most people only grind up to the first boss. They've done it before too, Yoshi-P felt people weren't running Sunken Temple of Quan (normal) so he added it to a story quest in a one of the patches.

So probably expect more of this stuff to happen where "irritating" dgns are concerned

My opinion? Annoying... that's it, just annoying. I'll do it, but I don't like it. I'm a hypocrite like that though I guess.

I'm on my 5th AV run so far. Just timed the last one and it was 37 minutes, skipping the first room trash. The enemies in AV have too much health compared to DPS's DPS. If I could DPS I wouldn't mind, but 22 minutes for a queue is not appreciable. I just really, really, really think adding in AV and DD were stupid and a forceful way of making people grind dungeons that were largely considered bullshit and annoying. Any instance with too much of a single color gives me a headache as well >.>

Got my DD item on my first try. Forgot I was there for it too.

I have a question. Do you have to go to a dungeon on the class you are doing the relic on? I am assuming so. Not that it really matters for me as I'm doing it on tank anyways and I have super queue anyways, but I figured this would be good info to know.

Everything about the relic quests are to increase activity in underused content. If you don't want them to add AV and DD into the relic quest, then run it a hundred times a day and get your friends to do the same. ;)

I feel extremely glad that I got both drops in 5 combined runs between the two dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

I have a question. Do you have to go to a dungeon on the class you are doing the relic on? I am assuming so.

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http://www.dealspwn.com/writer/wordp...on-540x194.png

Only for old relic stages. You can queue up and do the current iLv125 Zodiak quest dungeon grinding in any job you want. Go go go Tanks & Healers ;)

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Originally Posted by TheCurls

Everything about the relic quests are to increase activity in underused content. If you don't want them to add AV and DD into the relic quest, then run it a hundred times a day and get your friends to do the same. ;)

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This one got it. Too bad people who land into those dungeons when you're obviously queuing there for leveling purposes don't give a damn about you and just want to speedrun those (herp derp muh relic)

Since for a dps it takes anything between 15 to 45 min before the queue pops for those 2 dungeons, while you're forced to solo LEVEs (some are a pain without a chocobo healer or a healing capable job) & FATEs (since just summoning a chocobo companion or joining/inviting people for FATE farming prevents you to queue in duty finder... /shrug)

It makes it so not worth it if everytime people wanna skip half of the mobs. Better off farming Dzemael first room or be in full FATE parties and hope for massive XP gains with Svara or Dark Devices FATEs. All the while doing LEVEs with added levels and a chocobo to take care of the increased difficulty.

Meaning people who would normally queue up for leveling purposes still don't queue up for those dungeons and you end up doing it, frustratred, between you speed running relic grinders haha.

It really isn't that bad.

I did 19 runs of Dzemael Darkhold and 20 Aurum Vales so far, and didn't even feel that salty about it really.

As with every single aspect of the Relic quest following and including Zeniths; Disappointing.

If the 2.51 portion follows suit, I doubt I'll even bother with whatever 3.0 offers... It's just been an endless and soulless grind, would it have killed them to break it up occasionally with a proper Trial?

DD didn't seem that hard to finish relic, we made a pre made group in PF and were doing 10 min runs with a lot of sac pulls.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

As with every single aspect of the Relic quest following and including Zeniths; Disappointing.

If the 2.51 portion follows suit, I doubt I'll even bother with whatever 3.0 offers... It's just been an endless and soulless grind, would it have killed them to break it up occasionally with a proper Trial?

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I can only assume that would be the absolute worst option and would sink the game/bankrupt the company. Can you believe we went a whole year with this Relic grinding?

Can we get Trials now? I think at this point you've segregated the playerbase enough concerning Relic-Haves and Relic Have-nots where not everyone is going to be running around with them.

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Originally Posted by Hyunckel

-post-

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o.O Thank you scary lawyer person!

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

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I'm with you on the DD runs, don't worry. It was my worst one at 1/14. I was really happy to get my AV on the first try though. Aurum Vale can take forever if you end up with under 50's who want the full clear especially with how obnoxious the first room can be.

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Originally Posted by BillyBones

DD is the worst dungeon in the whole game.

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I'm the opposite, I hate AV with a passion and was soooo happy when I got the drop first run. DD, I still kinda like, bosses are pretty fun and Sacc pulling can go pretty quick if you got AE to burn the first mobs. Just run em all to room before first boss, stand in crystal so they tickle and AE em to oblivion XD. kill boss, Sacc pull to 2nd bosses room, get rezzed kill boss. Have to clear next room, then sacc pull to last boss.

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Originally Posted by Ceodore

I have a question. Do you have to go to a dungeon on the class you are doing the relic on? I am assuming so. Not that it really matters for me as I'm doing it on tank anyways and I have super queue anyways, but I figured this would be good info to know.

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Newp, just need the quest, most a my MNK relic drops I got running as PLD.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

If the 2.51 portion follows suit, I doubt I'll even bother with whatever 3.0 offers... It's just been an endless and soulless grind, would it have killed them to break it up occasionally with a proper Trial?

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Woulda been funky if they had used the Extreme primals for the relic (Still <3 Titan extreme, fun fight is fun).

I suppose it really doesn't matter for me anyways, since I have all my classes at 50, so dungeons like DD and AV are a waste no matter what class I go on anyways. But I think one of our healers will appreciate being able to use his alts on this portion of the quest.

Good intention but bad execution, ARR general. Wanting to revitalize old content is fine, adding an RNG and a conflict between players who want to run for the exp and players who just want their relic item already is bad.

They weren't that bad, just.. longer than the other dungeons from the lack of overgearing and 50 skills. I was guessing there would've been more lower level focus for the zodiac update, but I suppose it was useful as most people, myself included, dropped dungeons in the 40s sans DD-1st room burns. Especially when the weapon holders can choose to play in-demand roles.

You could always take some gear to SB with in AV and DD. If not that then put on some netflix or something. Really helps.

terrible idea. The whole quest was ok for me, but these 2 dungeons really stank. Currently working on relic for bard now, and the part I worry about most of all are these 2 dungeons.

As a few others had noted, it creates great dissonance between the Nexus queue'd individuals and the ones looking for full clears.

Those of us who just want to clear to have a chance of the item aren't to fault at all and shouldn't be.
Why clear the first room (which is FOREVER) when you can just sac pull the first room, and clear the first boss in under 6 minutes?

A real speedrun of AV should only take about 18 minutes. (3 sac pulls; 1 sac pull per third) Knowing that, spending 35-45 minutes per run is angering.


Can't blame the people who want EXp either. Especially DPS who wait for it.

AV is actually one of my favorite dungeons. I just wish they would have used Cutters Cry instead of DD.

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Originally Posted by Cutie_McSnuggles

AV is actually one of my favorite dungeons. I just wish they would have used Cutters Cry instead of DD.

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Please don't give them ideas please!

When it comes to AV, I think there should be a middle-ground. That first room is horrible, and I don't feel bad when DPS are denied full clears of it. But I don't agree with people sack-pulling the entire room either. Just clear the mobs that come in your way. Don't kill the seedlings before they hatch, etc. It's just about respecting your fellow party member's circumstances and not letting it be only be about yourself

CC would be cool... it is easily a dungeon in which speedruns are applicable >.> <.<
It's just, AV man. Took 9 tries for Halatali piece. I'd rather do 20 halatali's than go back into AV.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

When it comes to AV, I think there should be a middle-ground. That first room is horrible, and I don't feel bad when DPS are denied full clears of it. But I don't agree with people sack-pulling the entire room either. Just clear the mobs that come in your way. Don't kill the seedlings before they hatch, etc. It's just about respecting your fellow party member's circumstances and not letting it be only be about yourself

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That's an easy mindset to follow, until you're 6 runs in in which each run is 35+ minutes long.

Patience becomes lost.

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Woulda been funky if they had used the Extreme primals for the relic (Still <3 Titan extreme, fun fight is fun).

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This is what they should have done instead of half of what we got... I get that they don't want Relics to involve Endgame, but old Endgame content should be fair game... Have us do some T1 for Allagan Wootz/etc. would have been refreshing...

Heck, all this talk of it being to get people in old content... Labyrinth Of The Ancients needs that kind of boost way more than Dhzmeal Darkhold or Aurum Vale ever will... Honestly, if they wanted to improve low level dungeon queues with the Relic quest, having the Mysterious Map daily quest involve Low Level Roulette rather than Expert would have been the obvious answer... Did anyone at all actually need an extra reason to do Expert Roulettes?

I cannot like your post enough Nalien. Pretend my like is equivalent to ten of them, if you must.

I had to do DD so much...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Heck, all this talk of it being to get people in old content... Labyrinth Of The Ancients needs that kind of boost way more than Dhzmeal Darkhold or Aurum Vale ever will... Honestly, if they wanted to improve low level dungeon queues with the Relic quest, having the Mysterious Map daily quest involve Low Level Roulette rather than Expert would have been the obvious answer... Did anyone at all actually need an extra reason to do Expert Roulettes?

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Totally agree! The primals, all of em. As when I caught up with my alt SCH it took for ages to get in the earlier Hildibrand fights and LotA, stuff which blocks progression, AV and DD not so much, longest que was Ramuh @ 40 mins as SCH! LotA took around 30 mins surprisingly, expected much longer (was a good run too).

Ehh, they're kind of annoying to run, but not impossible, so I don't really mind. AV only took me 3 runs, DD is so far taking me a little bit longer, but I'm not flat out hating it. Do I wish it was somewhere else? Yeah, probably, but this is tolerable.

They only had 14 level 50 light party dungeons... They wanted 4 unique dungeons per sub-quest... So they picked the two closest to 50.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

That's an easy mindset to follow, until you're 6 runs in in which each run is 35+ minutes long.

Patience becomes lost.

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Which falls back into the massive dissonance between those that just want to hit lvl 50 and those wanting to get atmas. None of this really benefits anyone and if anything, just makes people hate each other more(I honestly HATE speed clears even when it should feel more convenient to me. I don't always do full runs, but speed clearing just kills the point of dungeons for me). I'm honestly in agreement that there are other places that need love far more than those 2...

I love DD. I don't know who can complain about this easy dungeon. And you can collect gear sets for an achievement.
AV depend on the group you get.

I finished them for relic with DD 1/1 and AV 1/2

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Originally Posted by Xhominid

Which falls back into the massive dissonance between those that just want to hit lvl 50 and those wanting to get atmas.

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You get ATMAs faster from FATEs than from AV or DD. Much much faster.

DD, AV and many of the other 2.0 and 2.1 dungeons suffer heavily from imperfect dungeon design. Long side paths with rewards that are not worth it, rooms with large numbers of enemies with a lot of hp, punishments for doing the "right" thing, etc.

Changes I would make to AV to improve it:

• Pods give equal or greater XP if killed before germination.
• Frogs do not harpoon.
• Fewer enemies in first room.
• Warped Bow, Notched Bill and Crooked Guisarme appear in chests.

Zodiac quest should have honestly been - 16 Dungeons 100% drop rate - Same Crafting things/Soldiery Requirements - Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva EX at the end.

It would have been incredibly fun and much less of a headache.

RNG Progression is NOT fair, or fun in any way. Some people finish the quest in 20 dungeons, some take over 150. It's. Not. Fair.