Fix the cash shop

This is stupid SE you are making lots of people are thinking this and now I'm starting to believe it the cash shop was never ment for people to sell things from it for in game gil.

It's suporting rmt gil sellers by selling wedding bands for 6 million gil a pop.

If not rmt it goes towards people selling them to by clears for coil extreme primals and the such that makes it harder for others who intend to clear this content with out resorting to buy clears if this goes on I say just nerf every coil turn so you can just go in get loot or clear and move on.
The cash shop is a broken system and this needs to be fixed so that it can't be abused this goes agents everything about them stoping rmt activities and just handing them a way to just make it so they don't need to use bots.

Fixs this

You should report people you see advertising to sell the bracelets. SE already said they don't want people selling the bracelets for gil.

Editing because reasons:
It's not against TOS but they would like people not to do it either. Up to you if you want to report them or not, up to you if you want to talk about this in forums or not (though if you do that, you can't use character names as they frown on that in forums).

As to whether they'll do anything about this in the future. Hopefully but they haven't said anything. Of course given how much they'd have to rethink this, it wouldn't be a quick fix anyway.

You report one 2 more pop up they already know there's a problem with this so they need to fix it so it's not abused and its not just the bracelets it's the dyes too.

It's the people who are setting the price on what their worth in game I know this isn't what they intended but it's a broken system and it needs to be fixed.

Some people are all ready calling the game pay to clear and win because this isn't stoped.

SE said they'd do something about it if it was continuously abused. Even if more pop up, you should keep on reporting so they realize if it's abused enough to do something about it.

Editing because reasons:
SE said they might do something about it, maybe, who knows, we'll never know, their statement was ambiguous anyway.

The question, is why is that bracelet tradable to begin with? I can't trade my moogle hat.

SE said we cant sell the bracelets? :-/

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Originally Posted by LygerZero

SE said we cant sell the bracelets? :-/

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

And in other languages, they were a bit more firm about this. The english message is moot in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

You should stop fear mongering on the forums. You start at the beginning saying that the OP needs to report players, and then contradict your own statement by posting Bayohne's response where it clearly states it ISN'T against the TOS.

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Fearmongering? How is this fearmongering? I'm not saying that letting them walk about will bring about doom, or break the economy, or anything that would actually be considered fearmongering. I just said to report.

If the OP wants something done. He should report as how is SE supposed to know whether "this type of trend continues" if people don't report it... Worst that happens is nothing is done. <sarcasm>Oh my, how scary, bar your doors at night.</sarcasm>

I also never said it was against TOS but that SE doesn't want people to sell the bracelets. This in no way contradicts the official response.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

It's clearly fear mongering. You're telling people to report it because it is being abused. How is it in any way shape or form abuse, when it was placed into the game as such, and was stated in every language, that it isn't against the TOS? Maybe you should have posted Bayohne's reply to OP, instead of just saying REPORT FOR ABUSE?

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It was also stated in every language to STOP. There have even been topics, by people trying to sell bracelets, that have been closed with the message that they want them to stop.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

It was also stated in every language to STOP. There have even been topics, by people trying to sell bracelets, that have been closed with the message that they want them to stop.

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They said they would LIKE PEOPLE TO STOP. They didn't flat out say STOP, period. They also have been closing every single thread popping up by every White Knight complaining about it. This isn't one sided, so don't portray it as such. You are feeding people false information. It verbatim states WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO STOP. Not to stop. They left it up to players to stop themselves. If they really wanted it to stop, they'd have forced their hand 3 weeks ago and either banned them or changed how the system works.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

They said they would LIKE PEOPLE TO STOP. They didn't flat out say STOP, period. They also have been closing every single thread popping up by every White Knight complaining about it. This isn't one sided, so don't portray it as such. You are feeding people false information. It verbatim states WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO STOP. Not to stop. They left it up to players to stop themselves. If they really wanted it to stop, they'd have forced their hand 3 weeks ago and either banned them or changed how the system works.

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It takes time to change a system. Of course they wouldn't have changed it already...

And also, that's just semantics. The English community team simply wrote it in a nice way.

You also didn't specify how else SE is supposed to know if " this type of trend continues " if people don't report it. Like I said, worst that happens to the seller if they really don't care is that nothing happens.

I'm also not sure what the White Knight comment is supposed to be. I wasn't talking about Black vs White Knight threads (For VS Against threads). I meant, they have closed threads where a person would specifically advertise selling in a particular server. I saw it mostly in the French forums but sadly I can't find them anymore, which makes me think they were deleted after (that or I'm searching for the wrong keyword. There's no Community Team tracker after all and none of the responses were made by Devs)

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Originally Posted by thunderbreak

The question, is why is that bracelet tradable to begin with? I can't trade my moogle hat.

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The reason it's tradable is because it was designed so I could be gifted but like every thing else like with hunts people find a way to abuse it your moogle hat can't be traded because it's ment for you and others who got a pre order on the game.

It's very different.

I for one would prefer devs or who ever comment on the status on if they intend to change it because it's being used like this or not. Because the cash shop wasn't ment to be used like this to begin with and it needs to be made clearer on if they care that it's being abused I know they still make their money either way but what about our trust cuz there are people who are starting to think that it's becoming pay to win and I for one am not happy.

Let's just sell levels on cash shop oh wait we can do that cuz we buy a wedding band sell for 4 mill and get carried in Levels and such it ruins the game.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

Give them the credit.

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Hard to give them that kind of credit when people report/blacklist gil sellers, and by your "credit" they should have plenty of logs to find them, yet the same ones still roam around. Some "tracking" that is....

But whatever, I don't want to argue about this. I'll just go edit my post.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

I also never said it was against TOS but that SE doesn't want people to sell the bracelets.

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No, what you said was that OP needed to report it because it was abuse. The literal definition of abuse is "to use wrongly or improperly". You can argue all you want that this is abuse and were being traded wrongfully, but you don't seem to grasp that they full well knew it was being implemented as trade able, and only after a bunch of players complained about it, did it turn into it being used against the original intention of the item. Nearly a full 3 days later, well after plenty of people made millions, possibly tens of millions. I don't believe for a second that nobody thought this wouldn't happen beforehand, but that's just me. They aren't stupid.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

No, what you said was that OP needed to report it because it was abuse. The literal definition of abuse is "to use wrongly or improperly". You can argue all you want that this is abuse and were being traded wrongfully, but you don't seem to grasp that they full well knew it was being implemented as trade able, and only after a bunch of players complained about it, did it turn into it being used against the original intention of the item. Nearly a full 3 days later, well after plenty of people made millions, possibly tens of millions. I don't believe for a second that nobody thought this wouldn't happen beforehand, but that's just me. They aren't stupid.

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OK now I really have a beef with you. For someone who was so hung up on semantics over the "LIKE" thing, you certainly are taking my statements way out of their context!

I SAID:
You should report people you see advertising to sell the bracelets. SE already said they don't want people selling the bracelets for gil.

No mention of TOS Or abuse there. Just that they don't want it (which is true).

Then my second statement:
SE said they'd do something about it if it was continuously abused. Even if more pop up, you should keep on reporting so they realize if it's abused enough to do something about it.

In case you can't read. I didn't say it was abused. I said this is how SE would learn IF it was abused so that they can decide if they want to do something about it or not.

You can't just combine two separate statements into one "report because it's abuse" statement as that was not the case at all.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

OK now I really have a beef with you. For someone who was so hung up on semantics over the "LIKE" thing, you certainly are taking my statements way out of their context!

You can't just combine two separate statements into one "report because it's abuse" statement as that was not the case at all.

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Of course I can, and I just did. I'm not going to argue about it, that's not what this was about. It was about the OP being told the truth, and not being given blanket statements. I will bow out of this conversation, and I believe both you and I made our points. Have a good night.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

Of course I can, and I just did. I'm not going to argue about it, that's not what this was about. It was about the OP being told the truth, and not being given blanket statements. I will bow out of this conversation, and I believe both you and I made our points. Have a good night.

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Good riddance. Nothing like seeing a person who wants people to be "told the truth" and harps on the semantics of a single word that was most likely used in politeness, then feels free to combine things into what they weren't supposed to be, and claims things were said that weren't actually said.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Good riddance. Nothing like seeing a person who wants people to be "told the truth" and harps on the semantics of a single word that was most likely used in politeness, then feels free to combine things into what they weren't supposed to be, and claims things were said that weren't actually said.

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I'm sorry you're so mad about it all. Maybe post what Bayohne said next time a thread pops up, instead of leading people on with your hyperbole.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

I'm sorry you're so mad about it all. Maybe post what Bayohne said next time a thread pops up, instead of leading people on with your hyperbole.

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Just go away. You're a hypocrite with double standards. It wasn't a hyperbole and it's not my fault you extrapolated more from my posts than what was actually said.

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Originally Posted by Squintina

Just go away. You're a hypocrite with double standards. It wasn't a hyperbole and it's not my fault you extrapolated more from my posts than what was actually said.

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It most definitely was, and yes, you should post quotes when able to.

I'm starting to think this is getting out of hand my main purpose of starting this thread was to get an idea on if people really think this is wrong.

I do think it is wrong that it's being used this way and I hope by the next patch they do something to stop the abuse that is happening.

Can we at lest agree that it is wrong for people to be doing this and stop fighting back and forth.

And if we don't think it's wrong? The statement by SE doesn't even say it's wrong; they're more concerned that it's causing a lot of threads here.

Edit: let's get that quote in here to clear up the hyperboles...

from http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2638380

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

As you know, the promise wristlets were designed to be tradable so that one person would be able to purchase a pair of wristlets and gift one to their partner.

While the trading and selling of these items for gil is not against the terms of service, in the event this type of trend continues and topics continue to arise regarding whether or not this is considered real-money trading, we will have no choice but to change the design of this system. Therefore we would like players to stop selling and trading the bracelets for gil so that they can continue to be used for their intended purpose.

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So it's not against ToS, but basically if topics continue to arise regarding (it) we'll have no choice but to change. I hate posting in these threads for this exact reason, it draws more attention to a complete non-issue. But with people like Squintina posting on this you gotta step in and correct things from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

But with people like Squintina posting on this you gotta step in and correct things from time to time.

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Listen you. I stopped replying and I even edited my posts. Get off my back.

Even though I didn't actually say anything incorrect. I never said it was against TOS or abuse. I merely suggested to report so that SE would know and they can decide if it's abuse or not (and then they can decide what,if anything or nothing at all, they want to do about it).

For the record: I personally don't care if people sell these bracelets anymore. I do think it has the potential to cause some imbalance, but at the same time, there are only so many bracelets that will be sold. Most people will get married 0-2 times and many of the people who do get married will buy their own directly off the cash shop anyway.

Anyway, unless someone directly speaks of me again, this is my last post in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

And if we don't think it's wrong? The statement by SE doesn't even say it's wrong; they're more concerned that it's causing a lot of threads here.

Edit: let's get that quote in here to clear up the hyperboles...

from http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2638380


So it's not against ToS, but basically if topics continue to arise regarding (it) we'll have no choice but to change. I hate posting in these threads for this exact reason, it draws more attention to a complete non-issue. But with people like Squintina posting on this you gotta step in and correct things from time to time.

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It's right there at the bottom of bayohnes post.
We would like people to stop trading the bracelets for Gil so they can be used for their intended purpose.

This shows that they are against it and that it is being abused.

It clearly says they would like people to stop selling it for gil and use it as intended so he has said their against it it doesn't matter if it isn't against the TOS they don't want it being used like this.

I agree though that not everyone has the money for it but that is what the standered package is for.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

It clearly says they would like people to stop selling it for gil and use it as intended so he has said their against it it doesn't matter if it isn't against the TOS they don't want it being used like this.

I agree though that not everyone has the money for it but that is what the standered package is for.

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Edit: This just is not worth the time and effort any longer. Just don't be pissed at SE when the trend indeed continues because in reality they didn't care. They only cared because people were upset about it. GL in your endeavors to change the unchangeable. I'm out.

I couldn't care less about someone selling the rings. I've thought about doing it, but since it's stupid easy to make gil anyway I've chosen not to.

However after reading the entirety of this thread, the infatuation with "correcting" Squintina makes me sick to my stomach.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

It's clearly fear mongering...snip...

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You've got to be joking. This couldn't be further from the truth. This is clearly NOT the case.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

...snip.... gotta step in and correct things from time to time.

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INDEED.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

...snip...hyperboles...

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Buzzword.

I'm tired of forum communities using this word (and semantics) without understanding the inevitable conversation to follow. Then, people do not even specify what type of semantics they accuse people of using. So, someone might use a word for an exaggerated effect for their own personal gain of statement, then someone will defend themselves regarding the connotation behind what they said, and a dozen people will log on and say "semantics/hyperbole".

Then, someone else will log on and argue the literacy of exactly what was said and then someone else, after it is all said and done, will say, "I think it's clear what was said" nullifying anything anyone had to say anyway.

So...I'll just be that guy.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

...snip... they're more concerned that it's causing a lot of threads here...snip....

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It doesn't actually say "threads". It says "topics". Sure it's as clear see through what "topics" meant, BUT it could literally mean almost anything anywhere forever and ever. Topics can be created through in game messaging from SE's perspective. They don't just use this board to discuss their agenda or "topics" for the day. 72 in game messages reporting people selling xyz in game can very well create a "topic" on their honey to do list. I'm also 100% sure their "topics" to discuss for they day at some point in time (earth time) have been directly inspired by facebook, twitter, reddit, etcetera.

Then of course there's their use of the word "want" in association the premise of a desired goal. It would seem logical that such an obvious outreach to the community for help with such a matter would facilitate players using the in game options to talk to their GMs. Their message straight up indirectly encourages you to do this. It's all subliminal.

You'd have to be dense to think, after reading their official statement, that they will not use all tools available to them to gauge how bad the problem is. And yes, that includes in game reporting.

You'd also have to be dense to think, after reading their official statement, that reporting players in game for doing this is not encouraged as opposed to discouraged. The response you'll likely get (haven't done it because it's a non-issue to me) is "Hey, thanks! We'll look into it!" or blah blah blah.

TLDR??

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Originally Posted by Squintina

...snip... unless someone directly speaks of me again...snip...

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You are NOT a "fearmonger" xD. Do not stop not being a "fearmonger"

God the internet is broke.

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Originally Posted by Stihllodeing

You are NOT a "fearmonger" xD. Do not stop not being a "fearmonger"

God the internet is broke.

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:)

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

and to take it up with support.

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Isn't that a form of reporting? (Do note I never specified which method of reporting to use).

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

It is, but you never stated taking it to support. Generally, people, I would say 90%, report in game for things like RMT and gilspam. They don't immediately run to the forums or the support part of the lodestone.

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and then the GM would have led them to the correct reporting method...

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

I'll also post my photo of the week beforehand, where the GM said it wasn't against the TOS. They switched a week later, this last week, after I imagine more was said within the company.

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ok and? companies are allowed to change their stances after thinking about things further. The most recent is what matters.

It doesn't change that there is a form of reporting. So whether the person reported via GM, who directed to support, or went to support directly, the result would have been the same.

On the other hand, your result, since this is the first time you've acknowledged a form of reporting, would have led someone to believe there was none at all.

Edit: not having my posts misused by other people, so that they misinterpret as endorsement for anything in game. I do not endorse a single thing. Point was made.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

No stance was changed. Lol. 12/11/14, Bayohne stated it wasn't against the TOS. Then I get this the 27th http://i.imgur.com/qEF4Y0p.png. Still not against the TOS. Note that abuse was also never used in the reply. What they did was effectively cut off people complaining about it in game, to in turn come here, and also be cut off.

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You really need to learn to follow posts... I was referencing the GM reply you mentioned. So, let me retype with the clarification:

ok and? companies are allowed to change their stances on how GMs react to inquiries after thinking about things further. The most recent is what matters.

It doesn't change that there is a form of reporting. So whether the person reported via GM, who directed to support, or went to support directly, the result would have been the same.

On the other hand, your result, since this is the first time you've acknowledged a form of reporting, would have led someone to believe there was none at all.

And it still doesn't change that if topics continue to arise they might do something about it at some point. Even if it's only frowned upon, but not punishable, as of yet, "reporting" (in whatever form) would allow them to decide if the topics are high enough to reconsider their decision(and by reconsider I don't necessarily mean any particular decision. But at least they might give a real "this is allowed" or "this is not allowed and we'll fix it" announcement instead of the "we don't want this but it's technically not against the rules" statement).

Also didn't you say you had 2 pictures? where's the second one about reporting to support?

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

term, arsehurt, a month to two months out over something that ended after 2 weeks, is beyond pathetic and childish.

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Term excused (though the person who insists on replying to prove them wrong over something would be just as guilty of being beyond pathetic and childish).

I will agree with one thing though.

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Originally Posted by Laerad3993

This just is not worth the time and effort

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It really isn't :/ Given how only a % of the population will get married a set number of times, many of whom with free plans, and those who pay have to deal with with finding a person of equal bracelet and reserving a time, the market for this is hardly worth thinking about. Perhaps if the system had been less cumbersome it might have been a bigger issue, but it indeed isn't worth the time and effort when we're mostly arguing over who has correct statements anyway.

So I can legally buy wedding bands and sell them on the AH *brb*

This is how I look at it. its not against the TOS. Selling them is not how they intended it to be used(imo thats just common sense). I doubt(opinion) they will ban players ,cause its SE fault for failing to realize they made an error before the item was released(but they may). If the item(or any) continues to be used in a way or even a game function it will be changed.

Instead of changing the item, wasting their time when it can be better spent(my opinion) elsewhere they prefer if players stop selling them if not they will be forced to change the item.

Selling them is wrong.
Its not illegal game action in the eyes of the TOS but selling it is not how it was intended to be used. If you are against it say so, report it, if your not against an item being used because "its not my fault the devs screwed up" well I'm not gonna tell you do it but what ever.