Should FFXIV go permanently F2P ?

Ok, I know I'm sort of /poking a slumbering drake with this topic, but imo, it just might save the game - If done the right way. Heres what I suggest:

1) Final Fantasy XIV goes completely Free To Play. So not a trial-setup. No "you can only level up to rank/level 20, and then you will have to pay each month. Free.

2) Like most other F2P games an ingame store is added where people can buy stuff for real money. This store has to be fully stocked with eye-candy, and fluff - like new special armors only available this way, or new emote motions. Also adding in "convenience-items" like special high potions and single-use XP-booters. (Empress Band anyone?)

3) Items added to store must never ever feel like they are a necessity. Above mentioned armor must have a free equivalent. What people would pay for would be cosmetic only. The potion has to have a looong cooldown. Something you'd only use once and awhile. XP-booster should also have a hefty time cooldown. So no "forcing" players into buying anything. If someone rejects another player from joining a party, because they lack something only purchasable from the store, the concept has failed.

4) Prices at the store must be kept at a level where everybody feel they can afford to spend money. Make stuff too expensive in there and no one will buy anything. "A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush..."

Now... Would you support this idea? Would SE make money this way? Possibly even attract new players?
What do you guys (and gals) think?



{/hurray for me first post - sorry it had to be said. ^.^;}

SE would never do this.
They are a company, and like any company they need more than a cash shop to supply their demands.
On top of that, I believe I read an interview with a developer on either FFXI, or FFXIV about having F2P games. They said morally Final Fantasy is not about the ability to purchase items with real money, but to work for it like a game should be.

No, just no.
I've played many F2P games and some P2P, so I think I can say I have some experience on both.

1. F2P games usually gain less money than P2P. Sure, most of the time it's enough to keep the game going for a few years, but often the playing experience is way worse than in P2P games because they can only afford minimal staff so there are few and bad events, boring expansions, etc.

2. To even gain any money at all, F2P games NEED to make Cash Shop items needed.
"Oh great, I can buy myself a LP potion for 3$ which heals 20 LP while I get one that heals 50 LP for 500 Gil ingame. I'll totally buy it, although it's less useful than the ingame one."
Nope, nobody is gonna do that.
It's different if the cash shop item heals your LP by 2000..but in that case, you would be REQUIRED to buy it for certain bosses, which would lead to the game being extremely cash shop dependant, and that's just not fun at all and horrible..

3. I've played a game where you really didn't need cash shop items, it was F2P AND it even had all the great expansions, events every week, etc.
It was fun, I loved it, I still love it, in my opinion it was the best game ever made and I would never have quit it, but the reason I'm playing FFXIV right now instead of that game is because it had to be shut down because the company was actually PAYING for it instead of gaining money for it.
I'd rather NOT see FFXIV go down that path...

So P2P is fine by me.
(It also helps keeping annoying little children away who can't pay for it..in many F2P games the average age is 13, while in FFXIV it's 18+.)

F2P = bad. In every single aspect.

Actually i'd rather SE already being charging subscription fees so they would be able to put much more manpower here to speed up things.

I'll play either way, but I seriously doubt SE is hurting for money, probably why its been F2P all this time while they get it up to par. As far as SE never going F2P, they recently bought Wakfu from Ankama, it's a pretty fun flash turned based mmorpg. I've played both, and F2P and P2P have both let me down, nothing lasts more than a few months before its repetitive. The best mmo i've ever played is FFXI (pre-abyssia) hands down. I'm excited to see FFXIV molded to something of the likes of it, and the patch notes for 1.19 look to be promising.

But that would lead to most players quitting because they don't see why they should pay for a broken game, and they are kind of right.
Charging fees NOW of all times when the game is just starting to get better could break it's neck.

A "donate" option would be nice though, so we can support the process if we want to :)

I see no problem with it going F2P i mean hell guild wars did fine with it right?

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Originally Posted by Zemeckis

I see no problem with it going F2P i mean hell guild wars did fine with it right?

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Come on now, we are talking about SE. =/

No - Please see all the other threads for responses/rants/constructive post.. that's for both sides the argument.

I'm against this as while we don't have a great community at times, all the F2P games I've tried have had much worse.
You generally just Pay to get the best, so little/no reward for putting in the and effort.
Content is generally more hollow then P2P games from my experience an better polished overall.
(I'm here cos it might have a FF story hidden somewhere lol)
All players are on a semi equal footing regardless of the RL income they have.

Guild Wars is different, doesn't have "cash crap" stores. It's just B2P.

Can't say I like the idea of F2P for a couple reasons:
- I personally find that I am unable to commit to a game I'm not paying for (or intend to pay for)
- Cash stores in F2P games are always way OP and then it becomes a "have this paid item or gtfo" community

i rather p2p for the game instead of it becoming f2p AKA: pay to win/look good.

I'm inherently opposed to F2P models as they open the door to 'pay to win' models which defeats the purpose of playing a game to begin with.

With that said, I have severe doubts that FFXIV will ever succeed with a front-loaded entry fee of $60 in addition to a monthly fee. One of those things has to change. I would prefer it to be the $60 price.

The game should be a free download on both PC and PS3 with 30 days free full access up to rank 20.

If they made it P2P alot of people would quit, i know i would, with it being F2P people who wouldn't give the game a chance for it to get better..will. Word of mouth gets out, people tell their friends about how much it's changed, and ff14 is able to restore their dead community. It being F2P for now until it gets better is a VERY smart move by SE...expecially since they botched the release and put such a sore taste in peoples mouth most people quit, i just came to the game after having quit a couple months after release *yes i was one of those idiots who pre-ordered the collectors edition* i noticed the game community was WAY less...it saddens me, i hope they can save this game since im totally done with World of warcraft etc and im in search for a good new game to invest my time in.

Reading through the replies here I sense a latent "fear" that going F2P might reduce quality of content and make the game less able to compete with the P2P alternatives. "This game is F2P and thus must be crap".

I gotta say that I find this very interesting. I would never try and change peoples minds about this topic. I was only curious as to how people would feel if FFXIV went F2P. That said, I can't help remind you all that FFXIV is in real trouble as it is. Sure tons of stuff have been changed, and yes the game will be close to a completely different game once SE manages to implement most of the stuff they have planned.
The sad fact is however that MMO's rarely get second chances. And once released, have a very small window of opportunity to attract new players. I don't have to remind you all of how most reviews went for this game, and its not likely that they will be revised, no matter how much work SE put into it. New MMO's hit the market every day, why should they return to re-review an "old" horrid (in thier minds) game, when they have others and newer ones that need their time and effort. (Not to mention attention got from info-starving people waiting to hear news about their favorite games. They just attract more people by reviewing new games instead of old ones.)

Fortunately for SE, FFXIV will get a second chance once the PS3 version of the game get released. I would just hate to see it populated by primarily console-owners. I have nothing against them as such (lie! :P) but if FFXIV gets a rep as a console game, then SE might, just might, favor them once it comes to expansions. And most PC people and console people simply wants different things from their game.

Then theres the fact that allot of once-P2P games have turned F2P. And doing better for it honestly. I heard Age Of Conan got a nice little comeback when they turned F2P. So did EQ2 and lots of other games. Ok so they did not all go completely F2P, but imo if your going F2P, might as well do it right.
Going F2P might just get some more people to check FFXIV out.

Oh and the most successfull MMO ever, if measured by accounts is a F2P game. Last I heard Maple Story had like 300 million players. Most of them Korean and Chinese, but 300mil. I think thats really impressive for a F2Pgame. An old school side-scrolling one at that. ^.^

Keep them opinions ticking in. If SE should start thinking this over, (although most of you don't want them to it seems ^^), they need to do so asap.

This game is really good it's just the grind to 18+ is the learning curve and a true test of patience.

If it becomes p2p i will quit, oh and i have only posted two times btw.
If you want it to be worth playing, tell them what you want, for one thing is sure, it will go p2p, maybe not today, maybe not tommorow, but we all know it will be.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

But that would lead to most players quitting because they don't see why they should pay for a broken game, and they are kind of right.
Charging fees NOW of all times when the game is just starting to get better could break it's neck.

A "donate" option would be nice though, so we can support the process if we want to :)

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I agree with this 100%... and even with the donate button. I would like to support the efforts of the creatives behind FFXIV. I mean I have Deus Ex pre-ordered (next week yay!) and am looking forward to the new Tomb Raider but... am I really supporting the part of S-E that is behind this game?, I doubt it.

but ya, F2P = nooooooo

No, no, and no.

F2P measns low budget which means weak content.
With that you also get a bunch of annoying kids playing because they don't have to ask mommy or daddy for their credit card.
Even worse, a cash shop could ruin the game. For cash shops to be of any use to the devs, they need to provide overpowered items you just can't play without otherwise you would only get the free stuff in the game.

I've played F2P before and I don't want to see FFXIV going down that path.

Oh and yeah charging now = suicide. I'm all for a donating system though. I want to thank Yoshida and his team for their work without loosing half the playerbase (that's what charging now would mean).

I think you people are to worried about kids invading its not a easy game with a ton of combat and bears don't drop swords they drop bear meat i think the nature of ffxiv will drive them away a bit.

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Originally Posted by Esk

I'm against this as while we don't have a great community at times, all the F2P games I've tried have had much worse.
You generally just Pay to get the best, so little/no reward for putting in the and effort.

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I think the term here is "You get what you pay for" which is very evident in this game. the graphics are some of the best i've seen in a while, along with other factors as the quickness of patches and whatnot. There is also the fact that when it dose become P2P you pay for individual character slots which is a new concept for me as i'm more used to at least 5-10 character slots per server such as CoH and WoW.

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Originally Posted by RogueDK

Fortunately for SE, FFXIV will get a second chance once the PS3 version of the game get released. I would just hate to see it populated by primarily console-owners.

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As you said, it's a second chance (only a big gaming company like SE even gets the chance to do that, other MMOs would be dead) with the PS3, and I think if lots of console owners join and have fun and the new reviews which will certainly be done when it gets released on the PS3, word will spread that Final Fantasy XIV was changed in many ways and is a great game now (well, IF it becomes one).
Sure, they really hurt themselves with the first release, and bad reputation is hard to get rid of, but I think SE has people who gain their money just thinking of strategies on how to make people want to play the game.
Changing it into a F2P game is certainly not the right way.
Even though the games you named gained new players when going F2P, it's because their player numbers were already plummeting, and I think that's certainly not the kind of image FFXIV should show to the world when it's trying to get released for the second time.

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Originally Posted by RogueDK

Last I heard Maple Story had like 300 million players.
I think thats really impressive for a F2Pgame. An old school side-scrolling one at that. ^.^

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You got the order wrong.
The only reason it's popular is exactly BECAUSE it is F2P and simple, not DESPITE that.
Do you really think people would play it if it required more than momentarily immersion (maybe yes) and if you actually had to pay monthly fees (most certainly not, even if it improved the game)?
Btw, I don't know where you heard about 300 million, but that number is obviously wrong.
Just this year (2011) the publisher released the number of accounts, globally there are about 8 million.
Although the number of accounts doesn't even mean a thing, because that also includes people who never played the game again after trying it for one minute.

But that's not the kind of game SE is trying to make.
FFXIV is an extremely different concept and while you CAN compare it with SOME korean MMORPGs, you can't compare it with Maple Story.
Games always had certain demographics they were aimed at, people with certain interests, and MS and FFXIV are very different in that aspect.

I am against F2P. As someone said before I have played both and P2P games are always better for some reason. Cash shops make it so the rich can profit off the poor etc etc. People are going to leave when the game changes from F2P to P2P anyway weather they say "the game is broken or not" most of them just can afford it. I plan to keep on going no matter what and most of the people I know believe the same. I'd hate to see people go but that is their choice.

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Originally Posted by Mythe

....I'd hate to see people go but that is their choice.

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most of the people that would go would mostly be kids who can't pay for it or can't get there parents to pay for it in which case means less lag and not so much crowding in the more populated servers. and keep the more serious players because they are paying hard earned money in a video game. Which when it dose go P2P I aint goin no where anytime soon. I also agree with the donation feature.

Cash shop is never cheap, whoever thinks so probably have never really played F2P game seriously. I spent at least $50 a month on F2P games just trying to be a wee bit competitive, and I know a lot of people who spent like$200-$300 a month. Don't let their prices fool you, you need a lot of spending to get anywhere and sometimes the price don't even try to fool you, like $100 for a mount.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

...the price don't even try to fool you, like $100 for a mount.

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now that would suck big time

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Originally Posted by Darrkness

now that would suck big time

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Which became outdated after half a year when another more costly mount appear with more speed.

Lulz.

at least WoW was smart enough to not charge real money for mounts... just large amounts of gold to learn how to ride one then large amounts of gold to buy one

Think about it this way: if the game is F2P then you can forget about online help or assistance from a GM. The game MUST be PTP so we can get quality content and timely assistance. The shareholders would back out before you could say boo and the game would be dead before you know what happened.

F2P? Absolutely, as long as square would not follow the typical model other f2p games.
Here's an idea:

"Micro expansions"
Small quest packs with a different story line each with about 10 to 20 quests/instances.
Unique item rewards at the end of the quest chain (so you still have to work for your meal)

Rather then having a system where you get items from a store, have a system where you get content.
People who pay a monthly fee get VIP passes and can access all game content vs people who pay individually for each quest pack.

I also heard about that and think micro transactions are the future of MMORPGs, but I'm not so sure if I want FFXIV to try it..maybe one day, when it stabilized and found it's place on the market.
For now, it may not be so bad to stay with a more classic model.

Still hoping for a donate button, btw :(

so you do agree with me in a way. You would pay the monthly fee and be a VIP account, while others would possibly preffer buying quest packs individually. This is also a great system for those who play the game a lot vs those who play it for a few hours a week.
A player with less time to spend in game might prefer to play only quests dedicated to the character class he is interested in raising.