Art for Gil: Against TOS?

I'm just curious, with all the uproar about the cash shop and whatnot... I'm curious.

Is it considered against TOS for artists to offer commissions of artwork with Gil payments? There's not exchange of real money, but it's for services still..I guess considered to be of a "3rd party", but is it against the TOS?
I'm very curious on this, as it seems to be a grey area that doesn't really fit in to the RMT category.

Wouldn't that be kind of the same as accepting gil in game for services, such as melding or crafting? That isn't against ToS, so I would say that this isn't either as no real money is exchanged.

it's a very grey area but one I don't really see a problem with. Just discuss it with them out of game?

People are willing to pay with Gil for ingame services. Some want to be carried in Coil, some want to have materia melded into their gear, some pay for crafted gear etc.

I don't see why you wouldn't be allowed to draw something and trade it for Gil. If you can draw, and need Gil, and the other person can't draw and has Gil to spend...

Artists FTW ♥

I believe this has been asked before and the answer was that it is against the TOS. You are exchanging a real life service for in game currency.

I think it's against the TOS... If not I could buy art from the artist and sell it to people in game for Gil... You see the issue here?

Hmmm, could be interpreted as,

paying for art with gil.

Or

Buying of gil with art.

Just don't discuss it in-game and you'll be fine. I doubt anyone would care on SE's side, but it's a gray area as others have said.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

Just don't discuss it in-game and you'll be fine. I doubt anyone would care on SE's side, but it's a gray area as others have said.

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It's not that grey... I have £20 in my steam account, I'll gift you a game worth £20 if you give me 20 mil Gil. Is that also grey?

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Originally Posted by Shadray

It's not that grey... I have £20 in my steam account, I'll gift you a game worth £20 if you give me 20 mil Gil. Is that also grey?

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Yes, because unlike RMTs whose only job to accumulate and sell gil in the mmo, tanking the economy through botting, cheating, and even hacking, your individual sale is a drop in the bucket. That's why I and many others call it a gray area.

A player can send any amount of gil he/she chooses to anyone for any reason so yes this would be allowed.

What ISNT allowed in regards to the TOS is to demand real life money for ingame services regardless what they are.

What about real life items which can easily be converted back to cash?

Or paying someone Gil to buy the paperclip I just put on eBay for £20?

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Originally Posted by Shadray

What about real life items which can easily be converted back to cash?

Or paying someone Gil to buy the paperclip I just put on eBay for £20?

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Thing is, TOS basicly says that you cannot demand real money to provide ingame services to players, nor are you allowed to pay real money for a ingame advantage (in this case it would be refered to as buying gil).

But if YOU make a desicion to offer money to someone if they carry you thru something then aslong as you dont connect those 2 things by shouting in ingame chat how you just payed 20 dollars to get a primal carry you should be fine.

Highly entertained that a character named "Devils Lawyer" is participating in this thread. Moreso that they're advising "don't ask, don't tell".

But yeah, fanworks of any kind that are exchanged for goods, money, or services are something that SE most likely will ignore unless the issue is forced. Fanworks do a great job of advertising and promoting their products, so they do a lot of good for the company - but for SE to actually come out and say that it's okay opens up a very uncomfortable can of legal worms.

If you ask SE if it is okay, they will almost certainly say "no". If you don't ask and just do it? SE will likely look the other way, as long as the exchanges are not high-profile or for an absurd amount of profit.

I don't think it's going to be an issue since you are not getting real life money involved and aren't screwing with the economy.

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

Yes, because unlike RMTs whose only job to accumulate and sell gil in the mmo, tanking the economy through botting, cheating, and even hacking, your individual sale is a drop in the bucket. That's why I and many others call it a gray area.

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If you are saying that they are contributing to the "wrong," even if it's only a drop in a bucket, then that is not gray it would be black as you've identified it as being wrong. "Gray area" is when you cannot distinguish clearly whether it is right (white) or wrong (black). A "small amount of wrong" is still "wrong." It's only when you mix right and wrong together that it becomes any kind of gray.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

But if YOU make a desicion to offer money to someone if they carry you thru something then aslong as you dont connect those 2 things by shouting in ingame chat how you just payed 20 dollars to get a primal carry you should be fine.

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So basically, "against ToS, use at your own risk."

The Company can do whatever they like, even if it COULD be considered RMT it is not because that is THEIR business, how can they punish themselves right?

But if you do that, and you didnt gain their authorization prior to post those, it might well be considered a form of RMT or rather then RMT in this case it would be Advertising which is against ToS.

What is allowed to them even if similar is not allowed for the common of mortals,

If you intend to do that, I would first gain their approval....using their name for your own benefit even if it is in the end art that is related to FF, it is still for your benefit using their name.....see my point ?

Mei

Directly from the ToS:

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2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items. You may not play the Game for the purpose of acquiring virtual items or advancement in game play on behalf of a third-party or for the purpose of selling any virtual assets to a third party for real-world money, specifically including "gold-farming" and power-leveling services.

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source: http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

Of interest is the following snippet:

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You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world ... value any in-game currency ... .

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Value in this context implies monetary worth. Art has value, and as such the trade between art and gil would conflict with the ToS. So in essence by selling your art, you're purchasing gil. And the person purchasing the art, is merely selling gil.

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Originally Posted by Fornix

snip

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Wish people would use this logic with things like 3rd Party tools (parsers etc) instead of saying "grey area don't ask don't tell" when it's in the ToS that they are against it. Two way street. Both are grey area or neither are.

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Originally Posted by ChibiChan_Hyperion

So basically, "against ToS, use at your own risk."

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Yes, it becomes kinda like with parsers, not allowed but SE wont put energy or effort to try stop it unless someone says it to their face.

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

A player can send any amount of gil he/she chooses to anyone for any reason so yes this would be allowed.

What ISNT allowed in regards to the TOS is to demand real life money for ingame services regardless what they are.

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^ This.
/thread

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Originally Posted by Devils_Lawyer

A player can send any amount of gil he/she chooses to anyone for any reason so yes this would be allowed.

What ISNT allowed in regards to the TOS is to demand real life money for ingame services regardless what they are.

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So the Artist would be ok because they aren't offering "any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items."

However the person purchasing the Art would fall foul of the TOS because they are?

If it's not against ToS, every other RL service could be offered for Gil as well?

Wait, wasn't there this girl in FFXI who....? O.o

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Originally Posted by Fornix

Directly from the ToS:

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2.2 Real Money Trading, Farming and Power-Leveling. You may not sell, purchase or exchange for real-world money or value any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items.

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source: http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

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COUGHcashshopCOUGH
I mean so cute that it's their own TOS. But of course it's ok because it's them selling it......~

Hmm I wonder...
If somone makes a bet with someone when they're drunk, can they pay him/her with gil instead of real money or is it againt ToS?
Asking for a friend...

Guys, all things said though... SE can't read minds. If you don't advertise it in shouts and don't talk about it in mails or on here, I doubt they could fathom why the gil is being sent. Helping out a friend / a random person, simply because you're nice - plausible deniability, imo.

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Originally Posted by Shadray

So the Artist would be ok because they aren't offering "any in-game currency, accounts, characters, in-game services, or in-game virtual items."

However the person purchasing the Art would fall foul of the TOS because they are?

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Aslong as the the buyer and seller is dealing in Gil then its perfectly fine.

Its when the seller demands real money or the buyer offers it where it goes against TOS.

The reason that rule even exists is to prevent third parties from profiting off of SE's (or really any online) game. An artist is not making real money off of selling art for gil.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

COUGHcashshopCOUGH
I mean so cute that it's their own TOS. But of course it's ok because it's them selling it......~

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it clearly says "you" may not, not "we" may not
the wording excludes themselves from the rule

It's against the ToS because there is no control of that comission on the RL part. People could use comissions as an excuse for real money instead of art, for gil in game, and that's where SE has no control over it, hence labeling it RMT (even if it's not) just to avoid having to deal with the posibilities. You could always do it privatedly (as not making forum threads for comissions or advertising around).