Does convalescence stack with defiance?

I just got my warrior. I am wondering if these two skills stack with each other? They both increase the amount of healing received by 20%. Thanks

Yep. Can't recall if it's multiplicative or additive (though I thiiiink it's multiplicative) but you'll get higher heals with Conv + Defiance than you would purely with Defiance.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Yep. Can't recall if it's multiplicative or additive (though I thiiiink it's multiplicative) but you'll get higher heals with Conv + Defiance than you would purely with Defiance.

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I want to say they're multiplicative, because defense buffs are, but that would result in more healing than additive, so I'm not sure. I know for certain they stack, just not really how.
With Defiance and Convalescence, if it's multiplicative, Defiance + Convalescence gives you +44% healing, as opposed to 40% if it's additive.
In conjunction with Fey Illumination, which is also 20%, this makes the buff 72.8% to incoming healing assuming multiplicative, as opposed to just 60% if it's additive.

It is multiplicative.

They do and it is one of the reasons I love having Warriors as tanks in my groups. While they do take a bit more damage I do love the fact that they get healed so much faster than a Paladin. If a warrior is in a bad spot he just needs to pop Convalescence after that I follow suit and pop Divine Seal and should just skyrocket back up.

A PLD that pops Convalescence gets more efficient heals (i.e. is faster at 100%) than a WAR (without any other cooldowns). The 20% damage reduction of a PLD is the equivalent to +25% received healing.

Edit: Plus the Convalescence of a PLD is much stronger of course.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

A PLD that pops Convalescence gets more efficient heals (i.e. is faster at 100%) than a WAR (without any other cooldowns). The 20% damage reduction of a PLD is the equivalent to +25% received healing.

Edit: Plus the Convalescence of a PLD is much stronger of course.

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^^^^ This.

Remember that, ignoring all other skills, Shield Oath and Defiance give the same eHP boost (+25%). However, since Defiance gives +25% HP and only +20% healing, PLDs are actually slightly easier to heal than WARs. A PLD with 500/1000 HP (625 eHP) is healed for 200 and now has 700/1000 HP and now has (700/0.8) 875 eHP. A WAR with 625/1250 HP (625 eHP) is healed for 200 and now has 865/1250 HP (865 eHP). The PLD gets a 4.2% healing boost over the WAR. While that's a very small difference, it does highlight the fact that PLDs are not harder to heal than WARs, ignoring all skills except Shield Oath and Defiance.

Also, since Convalescence is a multiplicative buff, it affects both classes equally. Except, since it's a PLD skill, PLDs get a better version of it (30% instead of 20%). So, a WAR with Convalescence up in the previous example would be healed for 200*1.2*1.2 = 288, giving him 913/1250 HP (913 eHP). A PLD with Convalescence up in the previous example would be healed for 200*1.3 = 260, giving him 760/1000 HP (950 eHP). That's nearly a 13% healing boost over the WAR.


Now, what actually makes a WAR easier to heal is the fact that the WAR has tons of skills that self-heal as a side effect, whereas the PLD has only one weak one (cross-classed Bloodbath). This more than makes up for the lesser healing from Defiance. Still, saying WARs are easier to heal due to Defiance or Convalescence is just wrong. Both skills are slightly weaker than the PLD equivalents in regard to healing.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

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I'm not 100% sure what "is faster at 100%" means.

Anyway, Defiance means greater damage reduction from Stoneskin and Adloquium and gives greater healing from Lustrate, so feel free to use Conv. while you have Defiance up. You won't be wasting it at all.
The stoneskin and Lustrate thing is fairly straight forward, more HP means more Stoneskin soaking and healing, respectively.
The max incoming healing bonus a WAR can have is +72.8%, while a PLD can only have +56%, which means a Scholar that casts Adloquium for, say, 1000 HP, a WAR will get 1728 points of mitigation, versus PLD only getting 1560.
That's not taking into account Shield Oath, though, but I'm not really sure the order in which defense buffs vs. shields like Stoneskin or Adloquium are calculated, so.

That means the PLD is faster at 100% hp and you cannot talk about Defiance and ignore Shield Oath. The thing is, Defiance only means higher numbers from heals. Healing a PLD is still a bit more efficient. Stoneskin and Lustrate are also more efficient on a PLD.(bs)

Edit: Basically what Nyalia wrote.

Looking at SS and Lustrate in regards to only Defiance and Shield Oath:

PLD with 500/1000 HP (625 eHP) vs WAR with 625/1250 HP (625 eHP): SS (untraited) gives PLD a 100 HP barrier and the WAR a 125 HP barrier. Both are now hit for 200 damage. The PLD takes 160 damage, losing the barrier and 60 HP, leaving him with 440 HP (550 eHP). The WAR takes 200 damage, losing the barrier and 75 HP, leaving him with 550 HP (550 eHP).

Lustrate is a bit different. I don't know if Lustrate gains any healing bonuses or penalties (I don't run SCH very often). Does Defiance increase Lustrate by 20%?
- If not: Lustrate on the PLD heals 250 HP, giving him 750/1000 HP (937.5 eHP). Lustrate on the WAR heals 312.5 HP, giving him 937.5/1250 HP (937.5 eHP). Equal healing on both.
- If so: Lustrate on the PLD heals 250 HP, giving him 750/1000 HP (937.5 eHP). Lustrate on the WAR heals 375 HP, giving him 1000/1250 HP (1000 eHP). WAR gets a 20% healing boost from Lustrate over PLD.
- If so with Convalescence up: Lustrate on the PLD heals 325 HP, giving him 825/1000 HP (1031.25 eHP). Lustrate on the WAR heals 450 HP, giving him 1075/1250 HP (1075 eHP). WAR gets a 10.8% healing boost from Lustrate under Convalescence over PLD.

So, if the Defiance healing bonus applies to Lustrate, then yes, Lustrate is noticeably better on a WAR than a PLD. Meanwhile, Stoneskin is exactly equal on both WAR and PLD since they have the same eHP and no healing is involved.

Sorry you are right, Lustrate and Stoneskin is the same for both tanks. Had Adloquium in my head ...

Healing modifiers don't work on Lustrate. That is why Ramuh single tank is possible.

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Originally Posted by Alphras

Healing modifiers don't work on Lustrate. That is why Ramuh single tank is possible.

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Very good to know, thanks!

Thrill of Battle causes you to receive bigger Stoneskins and Lustrates, but not bigger flat heals or regens. The Stoneskins work similar to a PLD popping a defensive CD, but Thrill is the only CD that can give you "bigger" Lustrates due to the increase in flat HP. Combining this with Convalescence results in a really powerful healing effect, especially since they both sit on the same CD. Later on down the road you'll receive Vengeance, which also sits on a 120s CD. This means you can use Thrill + Conv, then a minute later use Vengeance, then a minute after that Thrill + Conv will be back up, etc. etc. This works really well in conjunction with Inner Beast and is basically the structure of WAR CD usage.

Is there any proof that the math is correct? Is it 44%, or would it be .2 x 1.2 = .24 (24%)?

I know in Borderlands 2 that Flicker works multiplicative. It makes 20% Burn chance only 26% when you have a bonus of 30% from Flicker.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Is there any proof that the math is correct? Is it 44%, or would it be .2 x 1.2 = .24 (24%)?

I know in Borderlands 2 that Flicker works multiplicative. It makes 20% Burn chance only 26% when you have a bonus of 30% from Flicker.

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I am fairly certain there are several threads about parsing that sort of information but I don't know if I'm allowed to link those, so

Ah. Okay. Thanks.

It just seemed really strong, that's why I was wondering.

Stoneskin and are indeed exempt from healing modifiers such as mantra and convalescence, this is because they absorb 20% HP and heal 25% HP... Respectively. Now, because of this, the greater the recipient's HP the more efficient the spell will be, this is especially true for stoneskin.

For example, i top off around 14k HP, (With thrill of battle) SS is obviously going to absorb a LOT more damage for me Than say... A 8-9K HP paladin.