People have been going back and forth over this Verdant Bow vs. Crab Bow +3 vs. Ul'dahn Longbow. The same has been done for GLA's Templar's Falchion vs. Aeolian Scimitar +3 vs. Ul'dahn Scimitar (actually the Weathered Gladius is best here *joke :p )
Now no doubt the 5th chest weapons (or Batraal chest weapons in general) have raised a lot of envy and want in many, but is it more a prestige item or is truly the best? What is the reality here?
Who can actually VERIFY what is the better weapon for each job? :confused:
Although a lot of fights have been considered to depend upon a situation or conditional, a friend of mine made an assumption that most of the new weapons were pretty much on par with a lot of the "+2" weapons we had before the Grand company/dungeon patch and I almost agree with that statement. So pour the thoughts in over what is what here.
What is truly (HQ included) the best weapon for:
GLA
* Best Shield? -
PUG
MRD
LNC
ARC
CON (should they staff or wand/shield)
THM (*see CON)
Looking forward to some input and thoughts as well as maybe some actual test data to really settle the score here...
Dungeon Weapons, city weapons, HQ weapons OH MY!!!!
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08-13-2011, 09:10 PMSupaflyDungeon Weapons, city weapons, HQ weapons OH MY!!!!
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08-13-2011, 09:51 PMNilheim
To be honest the differences are so small it doesn't even matter, it's all about the prestige or the looks at the moment. Not to mention most stats are still kind of broken. Would I like a Templar's Falchion? Sure, but will it make me do my job as a tank better? Probably not.
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08-13-2011, 09:55 PMVischGLA - (tanking) Ul'dahn Scimitar (Don't see STR+2 doing anything and DEF+5 when the mob already attacks for 0... most of the time? HP Plz.) / (DD) Aeolian +3 (lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by Supafly
* Best Shield? - Vintage Kite Shield +3 (Batraal one is garbage compared to a +1 and Scutums are just silly because of the wield rate).
PUG - (tanking) Verdant Hora / (DD) Peiste Cesti +3 (If you need the Acc), Jade Horas +3 (If you don't).
MRD - (tanking) Canopus Bill / (DD) Barbarian's Bardiche +3 (Have fun getting that so Engraved +3 is good enough)
LNC - Champion's Lance +3 (Again, good luck on that, Banneret +3 is good enough and a lot easier)
ARC - Verdant or Crab bow +3.... This is what needs testing but I can't see any reason why Ul'dahn longbow is good at all 1 more attack then a crab bow +2? That is just silly any shouldn't even be considered.
CON (should they staff or wand/shield) - Nooo Idea. Depends on what you're doing. (Sleeping, nuking, healing.)
THM (*see CON) - Nooo Idea. Depends on what you're doing. (Sleeping, nuking, healing.) -
08-13-2011, 10:13 PMCursivethere is no reason for con and thm not to use a shield...aegis boon II is pretty broken atm. it increases your survivability of shit hits the fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
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08-13-2011, 11:42 PMApplePie
HQ shield doesn't make a difference on shields, no stat increase. STR+2 increases block rate. qq
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08-14-2011, 01:44 AMREDace0
For CON I know the mag potency of the Astaroth Cane is the same as the +2 Jade Crook, though it does provide +INT. Since the crook has a higher crit rate, I would think that the best weapon for nuking would still be a +3 Crook.
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08-14-2011, 02:20 AMJabo
The HQ equipment is far superior. I had a oak mac +3 once. Nearly 170 att. I had nearly atotal of 190 att with my Gladiator. ^^
There is a difference too. 10 Attack are about 5-7% more Damage.
So a +3 does 10-15% more Damage.
560 instead of 500. Thats something, if you ask me. -
08-14-2011, 10:55 AMXenor
Back when I tested a Mythril Choker on my ARC (+7 attack) I didn't even notice the damage increase. However I always seem to do more damage with my +3 Crab Bow than the ARCs I party with who only have a +2. But many things can influence damage such as optimal use of skills, having more cross class skills etc.
One thing I've noticed since the 1.18 patch is it's a pain in the ass to sell +2/3 Jade Crooks and Crab Bows now. Even at bargain prices people simply won't fork out the cash. +3s are definitely better yet people don't want them, they just want the Batraal weapons because they're new. No one on my server has even completed a speed run yet, although my LS is pretty close. -
08-14-2011, 01:43 PMTeknoman
Probably will have to wait until they overhaul/fix the way stats work before truly deciding on anything.
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08-14-2011, 02:54 PMVischNo stat increase? What? I wasn't aware "Blocking" and "Defense" were not stats. Thank you for telling the world this. And with only 90~ STR I've never failed to block on Orge or Batraal. Canopus shield = retainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApplePie
This is also true. Everything we know is going to change when "jobs" come out also so hurrdurrdurr.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknoman
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08-15-2011, 04:18 PMRydin
Ask these questions after stats are redone
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08-15-2011, 04:22 PMXenor
The attack, accuracy and critical hit stats don't seem broke. And those are the main stats on weapons. I'll take my +3 crab bow and jade crook over dungeon and city weapons any day.
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08-15-2011, 04:27 PMEstellios
I'd looove to buy a Jade Crook +2 or better but the only person selling one has a +2 for a crazy amount of gil that I'm not willing to part with. I can understand the price but it's just too expensive for me. I just hate the little bo peep style staves so much so I don't want an Astaroth Cane ><
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08-15-2011, 05:16 PMRazeGotta agree with you (although some of those items are unreal on my server (Aeolian +3, kite +3).Quote:
Originally Posted by Visch
One point, do you think that canopus shield will surpass Kite +1 when stats work?
(Plus I'm ARM so <3 canopus when I'm in a pinch) -
08-15-2011, 05:49 PMVischNo real way to tell... When they add "jobs" I would think soon after they would add AF similar to XI which will probably be better than most armor anyway. And maybe level cap to 60? Who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raze
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08-15-2011, 06:34 PMJaboThat's why it would be great if we could finally see the HQ stats directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor
Other people would notice, too, that these are still batter. It would certainly help the crafters, too. -
08-15-2011, 10:29 PMThanos
This is what I use
Crab bow+2
Udah bow
Crab+1
Verdant bow is for showing off or ransacking through things really quick cause it has a low delay.
When i get a +3 crab ill be sticking to the +3 +2 and uldah -
08-15-2011, 10:33 PMEskTbh, I'd have to agree on stats, but I just cant use the crab bow, to dam fugly imo :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Thanos
(might be a bit better in black but still) -
08-15-2011, 11:42 PMRadiator
Seems that currently Jade Hora+1 > Verdant Hora. I get 1 more attack and 6 more accuracy from the Jade. I assume once stats matter the Verdant will be better (from the +3 stength) and defintely better for tanking due to the addtional mag def and mind.
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08-16-2011, 02:53 AMZdenka
Well not that items really matter a whole lot for tanking now but... sorta some contridictions in the posts I'll clear up.
Why wouldn't the 5 defense from the Falcion matter but the defense from HQ shield does?
5 defense also reduces damage on weapon skills, BUT the defense from shields ONLY reduces damage from hits that are blocked. And as Visch pointed out most shield blocks are 0's so the defense on a shield doesn't even matter too much.
Also Blocking caps at 99, which Kite Shield+2/3 would have and Uldahn Scutum, but STR also raises this value and with ~115 STR from gear I think the shields which have 90 (Canopus/Kite nq) also reach 99 as I have never seen a failed block with Canopus yet.
Therefor the 2 HQ bonuses you get from Vintage Kite shield don't even really matter at all, so there is no reason to use it (even a +3) over Canopus or Uldahn shields. Also since "Block" requires no stamina, you are only giving up 3 seconds of boon/deflection using a Scutum (against Ogre and Batraal this usually equates to 0 extra hits mitigated as they spam WS's endlessly most of the time)
On that note 5 defense +2 str > 10HP since the main problem with tanking is threat right now, 5 def = less heals taken = less chance of healer pulling. (and maybe 1 extra damage per swing, but it still helps). The extra attack on Aoelian HQ's will amount to less extra damage done than damage not taken (threatwise) on boss mobs with their high defense and low amount of auto-attacks you actually do while tanking.
Ogre best tanking set up is Templars Falcion + Uldahn Scutum
Batraal best tanking set up is Tempars Falcion + Canopus Shield
Trash best tanking set up is Archer -
08-16-2011, 03:11 AMJabo
+5def and +2 STR aren't noticeable.
But damage contributes to hate. A Oak+3 or Aoelian +3, evan a Longsword +3 are way better. More damage, more hate.
Maybe that tiny def and Hp help a bit against NM's ans stuff, but the game isn't all about that and if the blocking rate and defense isn't important, you can still use your salvage shield. 12HP 1STR and 1VIT sound batter to me than 2STR 2 PIE 4Evasion
Don't know if strength really helps with the blocking rate, but a higher rate, is higher and I did fail to block now and than with my Vintage NQ.