A Lesson in Tactfulness

Hey folks! I've been noticing a lot of people in-game and on the forums get into very antagonizing (and even unnecessary) arguments and I think it's time all of us sit down and learn about the beauty of tact!

*hands out papers* -> http://charactercounts.org/pdf/good_..._K5_idea31.pdf

Tact is a very useful social tool which involves some proper phrasing in order dull the sharpness of harsh truths or opinions. By phrasing things in a less sharp manner, one can give better advice or express opinions or facts without fear of defensive backlash.

I have heard many people excuse their lack of tact for being simply "honest", but all that flavor of "honesty" does is cause people to feel hurt, which can provoke feelings of defensiveness, causing them to perceive you as if you are directly attacking them, and thus they may well attack you back.

It's a consideration of how other people may react to the words that come out of your mouth and how they could come across. For example, if someone asks if they're doing a good job playing Dragoon when you can tell they are not, instead of saying "Pfft, of course you're not, stupid loldrg", it would be more tactful to say "You're doing okay, but I can give you some pointers on how to improve!"

Even just an iota of consideration for the art of tactful speech will save you and those around you a lot of frustration. Thank you very much!

Thoughts? Questions?

*raises hand*

So, Mr. Passion, if I want other people to be tactful, can I just skip to the chase and load them full of tacks? Is that the same thing?

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Originally Posted by Parodine

*raises hand*

So, Mr. Passion, if I want other people to be tactful, can I just skip to the chase and load them full of tacks? Is that the same thing?

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Sorry, but I don't think that would necessarily work. However, if you were to direct them to this page, I am sure they will begin to understand how it means to be tactful! Just be sure to be tactful about it yourself! Remember, if you are tactful, it may encourage others to be tactful as well! =D

*sniffs paper, gets high* *throws spitball at blackboard* *hits teacher with it instead* *goes to office* *skips office and heads towards parking lot, gets in car and goes and gets breakfast*

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

*sniffs paper, gets high* *throws spitball at blackboard* *hits teacher with it instead* *goes to office* *skips office and heads towards parking lot, gets in car and goes and gets breakfast*

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I'm sure that's from a movie somewhere...

Not sure that first one is a great example. What if it really doesn't look good on them? I'd be outright lying to their face! I'd probably use the line "Well, I think I prefer your old one better..."

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I'm sure that's from a movie somewhere...

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Life experience, old timers know what I mean about the paper. There was a scene in Fast Times at Ridgemont High where the kids did that with the paper. Old copy machines used this weird blue ink that would get you high if the papers were fresh printed and still damp. Computers ruined that though.

Tactfulness? On a forum full of Westerners!?

You're gonna have a bad time.

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Originally Posted by KodiHivaer

Tactfulness? On a forum full of Westerners!?

You're gonna have a bad time.

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Yay! Nationalism and possible racism!

Tactlessness and tactfulness are not regionally exclusive. They are formed by individual experiences

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1. For Christmas, your grandmother gives you a sweatshirt which you think is ugly. She asks how
you like it. What should you say?

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"WTF Grandma, this is is DRG gear and I'm WHM. Learn to gift, noob."

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2. You are watching TV and the phone rings. Your mom answers it and tells you it’s Jane. You
don’t like Jane and don’t want to talk to her. What should you say?

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/blist Jane

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3. Your friend gets a new baby sister and you think it is the ugliest baby you’ve ever seen. Your
friend asks you, “Isn’t she the cutest?” What should you say?

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"Get that baby a Fantasia, pronto!"

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4. Your teacher is walking down the hallway with a piece of trash stuck to her shoe heel. What
should you say?

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"DPS shouldn't be pulling the trash, leave that to the tank."

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5. Your friend has been talking for 10 minutes with a big piece of broccoli stuck between his teeth.
What should you say?

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[Vote to Kick]

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6. You are visiting your friend’s house and your friend’s mom serves liver and onions for dinner,
which you think is disgusting. What should you say?

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[Vote to Abandon]

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

...funny stuff...

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Lmao! /10char

It is quite possible to be tactful and honest. However, sometimes it's more satisfying to be colourfully salty whilest painfully honest. (German researchers have shown that profanity makes pain, say from stubbing your toe, go away faster.)

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

It is quite possible to be tactful and honest. However, sometimes it's more satisfying to be colourfully salty whilest painfully honest. (German researchers have shown that profanity makes pain, say from stubbing your toe, go away faster.)

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I'm not denying that. This whole thread is meant to point out that, at the core of much of the toxicity of many arguments here in the forums and in-game, it all could have been avoided with a little bit of tactful expression. Feel free to scream into your pillow or smack a tree with a stick or something to get your frustrations out. Just please try not to take it out on other people if you can help it. It's more of a "please be considerate of other people as you would have them be considerate of you" thing and less of a "you are not ever allowed to express negativity ever" thing. I mean, if you bring up a point and someone disagrees with you, you wouldn't want them treating you like crap, right?

I show my friends how much I like them by not being tactful at all. We call each other horrible, terrible things with all the love in the world. bff's 4 lyfe

I agree completely with Burning. However, tact is something rarely seen, which is sad, so much so that even relatively constructive disagreements often can't be talked about either because someone is being 'blunt', which often is just an excuse for rudeness, or cannot rightly respond with a 'good answer' and so just end up being mean. I've had issues myself, at times, with just losing it, but I think the core value of treating people as if they were right there next to you playing, is a good one. Half of the mean things I witness in-game and on the forums I doubt would ever happen if the people were face to face. Anonymity shouldn't be en excuse to be mean and abusive. Then again...I guess this is the internet.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I agree completely with Burning. However, tact is something rarely seen, which is sad, so much so that even relatively constructive disagreements often can't be talked about either because someone is being 'blunt', which often is just an excuse for rudeness, or cannot rightly respond with a 'good answer' and so just end up being mean.I've had issues myself, at times, with just losing it, but I think the core value of treating people as if they were right there next to you playing, is a good one. Half of the mean things I witness in-game and on the forums I doubt would ever happen if the people were face to face. Anonymity shouldn't be en excuse to be mean and abusive. Then again...I guess this is the internet.

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I believe that the main problem is that the gaming community degenerated into a bunch of arrogant and selfish individuals that can't phantom the possiblity that they might be wrong, that other people will have different mindsets and preferences.The GREAT majority just can't take a minute to try and see the situation from someone else's perspective, which result in endless rethorical argumentation that end with insults and all the trash talk we often see in these forums. Most forums posters don't come here for information exchange or discussions, they come to preach their opinions as facts and will attack anybody who disagree with them. The lack of tact is just the tip of the iceberg in regard of the way we treat each other.

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Originally Posted by Edenholt

I believe that the main problem is that the gaming community degenerated into a bunch of arrogant and selfish individuals that can't phantom the possiblity that they might be wrong, that other people will have different mindsets and preferences.The GREAT majority just can't take a minute to try and see the situation from someone else's perspective, which result in endless rethorical argumentation that end with insults and all the trash talk we often see in these forums. Most forums posters don't come here for information exchange or discussions, they come to preach their opinions as facts and will attack anybody who disagree with them. The lack of tact is just the tip of the iceberg in regard of the way we treat each other.

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You are absolutely correct that tact is just the tip of the iceberg, but if we can embrace tact, then we can at least start to get to the root of the problem!

Baby steps.

The thing is, tact at its very definition is the need/desire to not antagonize people you deal with because of the consequences. We're on the internet, what are you gonna do, caps lock me to death?

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

The thing is, tact at its very definition is the need/desire to not antagonize people you deal with because of the consequences. We're on the internet, what are you gonna do, caps lock me to death?

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Well, there is a difference between a consequence and a punishment. A consequence is any kind of result of an action, whereas a punishment is one person of environment directly inflicting a negative action upon someone or something for doing something wrong. I push a domino, the domino falls. That's a consequence. A parent grounds a child for getting into the cookie jar. That's a punishment. Consequence is more of a broader "cause and effect" thing.

So no one will really punish you for not using tact. No one really can fairly do anything explicitly because you don't use tact. But if you don't, you may try to help someone with a word or two of advice, those words might seem very sharp to the person receiving the advice, they may see it as a personal attack on themselves, and they might retaliate with sharp words of their own, very possibly causing a flame war fueled by pride on both sides.

Even the slightest bit of tact can prevent that from ever happening. I mean, unless you like that sort of thing, in which case feel free to ignore the thread and go about your merry way. This thread is more for people who are all like "this community is full of angry stupid people and I don't know why these idiots are mad at me."

Those tactful responses SUCK!!! I-I mean.. they are not my style, but I could see why they're used!

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Well, there is a difference between a consequence and a punishment...

So no one will really punish you for not using tact. No one really can fairly do anything explicitly because you don't use tact. But if you don't, you may try to help someone with a word or two of advice, those words might seem very sharp to the person receiving the advice, they may see it as a personal attack on themselves, and they might retaliate with sharp words of their own, very possibly causing a flame war fueled by pride on both sides.

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But then my point still stands if "no one will punish (me) for not using tact"...something about the fact they can't, long as someone isn't so tactless that they defy forum rules of course.

And as far as flame wars, I determine who's worthy of help in a large part by seeing who reacts like that and who doesn't. And I won't lie, I get a good laugh out of those that prove themselves not worthy of the help. They're often quite comical.

I have tact. I'm just a smartass. The problem with this is that sarcasm and my strange mix of deadpan and exaggeration humor doesn't translate well through text. Also I hate whiners and morons, of which the internet and MMO's are filled. Also I'm old and grumpy and don't give a $h** (But also don't want to get banned for language).

WAT DO NOW, WISE MAN!?

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Originally Posted by Teslo

I have tact. I'm just a smartass. The problem with this is that sarcasm and my strange mix of deadpan and exaggeration humor doesn't translate well through text. Also I hate whiners and morons, of which the internet and MMO's are filled. Also I'm old and grumpy and don't give a $h** (But also don't want to get banned for language).

WAT DO NOW, WISE MAN!?

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I choose to respect your opinion, even though it clashes with my own, and point out that the only reason you perceive the internet and MMOs as being filled with whiners and morons is due to a general lack of empathy. Not from you, but from a large number of the internet's population.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

But then my point still stands if "no one will punish (me) for not using tact"...something about the fact they can't, long as someone isn't so tactless that they defy forum rules of course.

And as far as flame wars, I determine who's worthy of help in a large part by seeing who reacts like that and who doesn't. And I won't lie, I get a good laugh out of those that prove themselves not worthy of the help. They're often quite comical.

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It was never my intention to say you were wrong. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was merely clarifying the meaning of the definition you provided.

You're allowed to do whatever you want, but there will be consequences for your actions, for the better or for the worse. Though that goes for everyone, including myself. Every action has a reaction. Every cause has an effect. Every choice has a consequence. That's scientific law. It's better to be aware of those consequences before choosing than to be aware after the choice.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Super snip of OP

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I like this thread. Good job, sir! *throws bunches of likes*

This sort of thing also helps nurture productive debate and discussion, which would be waay awesome to see happen more often. Instead of "No, YOUR WRONG!" and then more "No, you're stupid AND wrong!" from the other side, with some colorful insults in between.

And you know, respecting others is just a nice thing to do...

Good one OP, Sir.

"There's always a polite way to get your point across" someone once said and yes, if you just have to be catty/snarky/mean to someone you can still do it in a polite way.... if you've got the wit for it (see what I did there? :p )

Also, very important to know when not to engage and identify instigators but, I suppose that comes with mileage (as in, the older I get - the less effect drama and other people's tempers have on me).

Lastly, relax and enjoy life :3

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

I choose to respect your opinion, even though it clashes with my own, and point out that the only reason you perceive the internet and MMOs as being filled with whiners and morons is due to a general lack of empathy. Not from you, but from a large number of the internet's population.

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I would actually argue that it's less of a lack of empathy (Though this IS a contributing factor!) and more that the whiners and morons tend to be the vocal ones, so they're who we notice.

It is a nice thread, by the way. Good to have a positive topic to look at once in a while.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

It was never my intention to say you were wrong. I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was merely clarifying the meaning of the definition you provided.

You're allowed to do whatever you want, but there will be consequences for your actions, for the better or for the worse. Though that goes for everyone, including myself. Every action has a reaction. Every cause has an effect. Every choice has a consequence. That's scientific law. It's better to be aware of those consequences before choosing than to be aware after the choice.

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I see. And yeah, definitely. The consequences are, sometimes people don't accept the help that's given. It's just that I'm not concerned with that consequence if someone's not able to get over themselves and see the point in a post, even if (and especially when) it's a brutal one. If anything, the comedy that comes out of people reacting badly is a positive consequence. ;)

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Your friend asks if you want to go to the park together.

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“I don’t really like playing with you.”

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Why the hell am I this person's friend again?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Why the hell am I this person's friend again?

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"I'm not your friend, buddy."

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

"There's always a polite way to get your point across" someone once said and yes, if you just have to be catty/snarky/mean to someone you can still do it in a polite way.... if you've got the wit for it (see what I did there? :p )

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Honestly I'd have more respect for someone to just be truthful and put it all out there if they absolutely had to be rude. Passive-agressive tactics just strike me as attempting to be dishonest on top of being catty, never mind tact.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

Honestly I'd have more respect for someone to just be truthful and put it all out there if they absolutely had to be rude. Passive-agressive tactics just strike me as dishonest on top of being catty, never mind tact.

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Tact is honesty + politeness. Rudeness leads to defensiveness. Yeah, it's not the most direct way of conversation, but I wouldn't call tact passive-aggressive, dishonest, or catty. Those are their own things. If anything, tact is more... diplomatic. It's being honest, but using the proper phrasing to soften the blow while still getting the point across.

I mean, many interactions between members on this forum are a pretty clear example of how an absence of tact isn't very effective at stopping toxicity.

I'm really eagerly awaiting(that's sarcasm for those who don't always understand it) our first /suicide to bullying. then people will pipe the heck down and respect others.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Tact is honesty + politeness. Rudeness leads to defensiveness. Yeah, it's not the most direct way of conversation, but I wouldn't call tact passive-aggressive, dishonest, or catty. Those are their own things. If anything, tact is more... diplomatic. It's being honest, but using the proper phrasing to soften the blow while still getting the point across.

I mean, many interactions between members on this forum are a pretty clear example of how an absence of tact isn't very effective at stopping toxicity.

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I understand what you're saying and I agree completely with you. What I was replying to though was the "if you absolutely have to be rude and catty", which to me says "passive-agressive thinly veiled insult" not "diplomacy". I would say that tact is more an attempt at giving constructive criticism while making a conscious effort not to come across as hurtful, rude, or catty.

Of course I could have read his comment wrong, but that's what I took from his wording.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

"I'm not your friend, buddy."

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I'm not your buddy, pal.

The thing is, this guide is mainly for people you meet in the open. Yes, it can be used online, but some factors do change, such as a joking sarcasm or facial expressions. Some people might even get offended using this tact, as they may see it as what you really thought, even if it weren't true.

Add in that a lot of people just want to be free of how they have to present themselves IRL. Everyone wears a mask.

Embrace the GIFT.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

I understand what you're saying and I agree completely with you. What I was replying to though was the "if you absolutely have to be rude and catty", which to me says "passive-agressive thinly veiled insult" not "diplomacy". I would say that tact is more an attempt at giving constructive criticism while making a conscious effort not to come across as hurtful, rude, or catty.

Of course I could have read his comment wrong, but that's what I took from his wording.

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Ah, I can see how you may have read it that way! My apologies for butting in!

tact = form of hypocrisy....
Tact = form of lie

Tact = sending someone to hell giving him /her the impression to go to heaven.

Question : why on Earth should I try to place myself in the other person shoe before I say something ? why on Earth should I do that ? in saying someone needs to be tactfull you are saying that THEIR feeling are more important then mines. I am not responsible on how other people understand what I say, that is purely on them, if they decide to take it as being a hurtful mean,well no matter how I will say it it will be taken as hurtful..so best say it point blank at least it is clear and straight to the point..no misunderstandings or unspoken truth which make everything more difficult.

By having tact or in other words, being politically correct, you are just telling to people what they want to hear...rather then what you want them to hear. Kind of dumb.

Up to them if they are annoyed or not...why shoudl I care of that frankly ? why ?

Mei

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Yay! Nationalism and possible racism!

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TIL: Western is a race

Slightly more seriously: Japanese players are a great deal more circumspect, which can pass for tactful in a bad light. When I was studying Japanese, our teacher asked us how that Japanese say "No" we answered "Iye" and she told us that was wrong. Japanese people say "Maybe" or "Yes", but extend the sound as if the sentence were to continue when they mean "No" to avoid the confrontation and disappointment outright refusal creates.

eg.

EN: "That was a great party, I think we almost made it to twisters by the 40th attempt! Let's party again next time we're both on, OK?!"
JP: "Maybe, sure...."

or

EN: "Yoshi-P, when will we have more housing wards/plots"
Y: "We are looking into doing this, please look forward to it..."

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

snip

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I bet you're a blast at parties.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

TIL: Western is a race

Slightly more seriously: Japanese players are a great deal more circumspect, which can pass for tactful in a bad light.

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Did I say possible? Sorry, definite.

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When I was studying Japanese,

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I think I found the root of the issue. This isn't something you gleaned from actually interacting with people, its something you picked up in language class. I'll say it again, tact isn't cultural/national/racial. It's something you learn with interacting with others.

To your language point, every group has it's own linguistic bits that allow them to signal each other (My favorite is the southern idiom "Bless his heart") without appearing to be rude.

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Originally Posted by Teryaani

Did I say possible? Sorry, definite.

I think I found the root of the issue. This isn't something you gleaned from actually interacting with people, its something you picked up in language class. I'll say it again, tact isn't cultural/national/racial. It's something you learn with interacting with others.

To your language point, every group has it's own linguistic bits that allow them to signal each other (My favorite is the southern idiom "Bless his heart") without appearing to be rude.

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It's actually something a 50-something year old Japanese woman who is paid to teach Japanese language and culture taught me. I assume she knows what she is talking about. Bless his heart isn't really a Southern thing, it's common in the UK too. It can be affectionate or patronising depending on how it's used. Often both.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

in saying someone needs to be tactfull you are saying that THEIR feeling are more important then mines.

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Probable troll, but still worth saying:

Tact is not saying that the other person's feelings are more important than yours. Tact is saying that the other person's feelings are important.

You are correct that dancing around the issue can lead to misunderstandings and difficulty, but unrelenting bluntness leads to a preponderance of negativity, which can impact people in a lot of bad ways (poor work performance, hopelessness, even suicidal tendencies).

It is important to be blunt only when doing so is useful and necessary. Do you think the happy couple's baby is ugly? What good does it do to tell the couple that? Does it help them to solve any problem? Does it improve their, or your life in any way? In this case, use tact; say the baby is charming, even if it's not really true - and while it may not be true to you, it probably IS true to the couple.

A friend has performed their own repairs on their car. While they are proud of their work, you can tell that the vehicle is a deathtrap. Do you congratulate them on a job well done? That would likely be a bad idea. You need to let them know that they are in danger. Of course, even there, there's a difference between saying, "You're a crappy mechanic, and if you drive this you will die." and "I don't think this vehicle looks safe; you really ought to have a professional take a look at it." Even when being blunt, it's best to choose a method that will spare the listener's feelings.

Interacting with people causes social friction. Tact is the grease that soothes that friction. That said, when the social machine is broken, bluntness may be the tool needed to fix the problem.

Using tact all the time, or being blunt all the time - both of these are lazy solutions that do more harm than good. A wise person will examine each situation, and apply the correct tool as needed.