In 3.0, is Level 51 ItemLevel 60? Or is Level 51 ItemLevel 150?

I expect it is the first, because the second would break everything, but i don't think there has been any confirmation on this, and i do not know much how it has been done in other MMOs. Can any one enlighten me? Thanks.

Every mmo I played does the 2nd because the first doesn't make much sense.

It's just a number why does it matter?

I think the most likely situation is that there will be Level 51-60 gear that is below i130 and the Level 60 raid tier gear will be i150.

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Originally Posted by Donjo

I think the most likely situation is that there will be Level 51-60 gear that is below i130 and the Level 60 raid tier gear will be i150.

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Which makes the most sense... because otherwise everyone can jump into Heavensward and level up to Level 51 and immediately make everything from the 2.1-2.5 patch content pointless except i suppose for exping... It would immediately make every top end gear from the top end content immediately scrap for EVERYONE, including people who have iLevel 50 stuff and just waltz into a duty finder of Amdapor, hit Level 51 and suddenly have 150 level gear etc..

Or i suppose a Level cap breaking quest could have a minimum iLevel attached to it, thereby creating a need to gear up the curve somewhat before continuing...

I'm also unclear on how a level 52 dungeon for example, will work in terms of item level requirements. It is higher level, but will it have a lower iLevel requirement than the top end Level 50 dungeons? If it had a higher item level then it would be broken as well, so... i have no idea how this is going to go.

yup probably they wont allow Level 50 to use gears above i135. So you will have to level to 60 in order to wear the i150 tish items.

I just hope that all the Gear we have right now gets destroyed by Lv51 crafted equipment, so I can have an excuse to actually buy gear as I level up. I also hope that the exp needed to level is gigantic so upgrading gear will be required.

I don't want by 2.0 gear to carry me through 3.0

I'm guessing they wont even bother to make equipment for level 51-59, and just have level 60 be the new "Level 50" so to speak where new tiers of I.lv will begin.

I think they should just end the item level growth with the addition of more levels and spread gear out with horizontal gear progression. (Just my opinion)

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I just hope that all the Gear we have right now gets destroyed by Lv51 crafted equipment, so I can have an excuse to actually buy gear as I level up. I also hope that the exp needed to level is gigantic so upgrading gear will be required.

I don't want by 2.0 gear to carry me through 3.0

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im afraid that if u have 120/130 that will last until 60, maybe the 58 dungeon drops 135 ? or 140 , but 1 dungeons will drop 100 or 110 top (think of alts leveling )

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

I expect it is the first, because the second would break everything, but i don't think there has been any confirmation on this, and i do not know much how it has been done in other MMOs. Can any one enlighten me? Thanks.

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Item level isn't really determined by player level. It all depends on what the target is for damage/healing at the new level cap. SE might decide that they want you to lose your Final Coil gear by level 53 for example or they might decide they want you to replace it at level 58, assuming the level cap will be 60. It's arbitrary really.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

It's just a number why does it matter?

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Because ilevel determines how much the budget is, the size of the stats.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

I expect it is the first, because the second would break everything

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Game already works that way. Old stuff that people worked hard to get is overshadowed all the time. They could make the new AF2 sets from job quests be i150 and it would be ok. Old content would still level sync down to 110. Old 90-130 gear would become much easier to get, and be treated as non-essential glamor sets you can ignore and level right past.

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Originally Posted by NefarioCall

I expect it is the first, because the second would break everything, but i don't think there has been any confirmation on this, and i do not know much how it has been done in other MMOs. Can any one enlighten me? Thanks.

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Item level 122. Or was it 112? I should clean my crystal ball.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

im afraid that if u have 120/130 that will last until 60, maybe the 58 dungeon drops 135 ? or 140 , but 1 dungeons will drop 100 or 110 top (think of alts leveling )

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You don't know that for certain. For one, we don't know how much of a power creep mobs will have from 1 level to the next. Theres a couple of options SE will probably do. 1: scale the mobs so they are killable by a fresh 50 with gear rewards obtainable as they level up. Or they make high ilvl gear so easily obtainable so they can scale 51+ mobs higher. If they make it so fresh 50s can level with AF gear (for example) then it makes it stupidly easy for anyone with 100-130 gear. If they scale it to 110-130 gear then it makes it stupidly hard for new players and levelling the new jobs if you don't have gear from other jobs they can use.

So I'm predicting very easily obtainable levelling gear in the first level or 2 of the xpac to put all quickly at the same power level.

It also depend on how much Yoshida want new lv 50 players to farm lv 50 content before they can start with lv 51+ content (have they first to farm Coil 3 or is cheap ilvel 70 gear enough for the first dungeon after lv50).
There would be no tome gear at lv 50, because the new tome gears get moved to lv 60

I'm mainly wishing to see all the 2.0 gears treadmill craps getting destroyed at 3.0, no more lame ilevels would very appreciated and a true horizontal gears progression mixing advanced and customizable stats that a Final Fantasy deserve.

At 3.0 the game will be 1 year and half old (in reality it will be 4 years and half including 1.0) and the project started in 2005.
I think FFXIV players were patient enough isn't, it's time for less temporary stuffs and more FF-ishs design when it come to gears & weapons progression.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

I'm mainly wishing to see all the 2.0 gears treadmill craps getting destroyed at 3.0, no more lame ilevels would very appreciated and a true horizontal gears progression mixing advanced and customizable stats that a Final Fantasy deserve.

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So something like 10 different gear sets with the exact same main stats but different 2nd stats?

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Originally Posted by Felis

So something like 10 different gear sets with the exact same main stats but different 2nd stats?

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the whole categorisation of primary stat and secondary stat is a shallow system anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Old content would still level sync down to 110.

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I think this is something people are forgetting. Older raids do tend to get negated to vanity (see: BCoB), though maybe they'll add decent gear to Savage FCoB for the expansion that's usable @ 60. Otherwise, I don't really see a problem with going beyond i130 even as early as lvl 51.

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Originally Posted by Felis

So something like 10 different gear sets with the exact same main stats but different 2nd stats?

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I see what you are trying there and I won't bait to the obvious "FFXI-hate" exemple :p

The main advantage of a customizable gear armory is to make them useful on the long road, it doesn't mean to have xx more different sets to gather but more likely having the possibility to be picky with your own decisions (gear wise), piece of gears that you can carry through your game playlife without discarding them every 3 months as a pure "glamour" or "desynthesize" gears trashs.

It would make the game more interesting by allowing the player to focus less on gears grind every new major patch and more on midcore / raiders contents that the game can offer to you... Trust me, it's very worthy, even more when you are able to see an unexpected 2 minutes and 30 secondes of FMV during an ending cutscene revealing to you the meaning of 2.0, the truth behind the crash of dalamud while answering many storyline questions, priceless moments.

Second option seems more likely to me. It is sad that it would kill a lot of content and also it will make our progress useless but that is how it usually go with treadmill mmos.

Somehow i smell a change in gear upgrading... i just dont know if they add it on 3.0 or later...
With the end of coil and crystal tower, they will try something new.

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Originally Posted by Atomnium

I see what you are trying there and I won't bait to the obvious "FFXI-hate" exemple :p

The main advantage of a customizable gear armory is to make them useful on the long road, it doesn't mean to have xx more different sets to gather but more likely having the possibility to be picky with your own decisions (gear wise), piece of gears that you can carry through your game playlife without discarding them every 3 months as a pure "glamour" or "desynthesize" gears trashs.

It would make the game more interesting by allowing the player to focus less on gears grind every new major patch and more on midcore / raiders contents that the game can offer to you... Trust me, it's very worthy, even more when you are able to see an unexpected 2 minutes and 30 secondes of FMV during an ending cutscene revealing to you the meaning of 2.0, the truth behind the crash of dalamud while answering many storyline questions, priceless moments.

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Sooo one set that you never replace? Random pieces that are good for only spesific fights? There's something about horizontal progression that I just can't wrap my head around. How does it even work?

These threads make me think that maybe Squenix should've just kept the ilvl hidden and a lot more people would be happier, I think.

I also would not put it past them to make all of the expansion gear to start with 200. This way is becomes very easy to tell the difference between the old gear and the new.

Im going to bet it loosely follows what WoW is doing:
LV51 gear might be somewhere around il100, so that SCoil/FCoil gear wont be immediately outdated, but will be during the leveling process.
At lv cap it can be around 150ish for normal gear.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Sooo one set that you never replace? Random pieces that are good for only spesific fights? There's something about horizontal progression that I just can't wrap my head around. How does it even work?

These threads make me think that maybe Squenix should've just kept the ilvl hidden and a lot more people would be happier, I think.

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It seems that FFXIV is your first mmo then, all fine friend :p I'm going to explain it a bit deeper then :). There is an incredible amount of possibilities to make the gears armory working into an horizontal progression design like :

- adding partial and full set bonus on "named-gears" with skills/stats/jobs stats/etc,
- being able to improve your best equipements with specific enhancements (in this case it could be materia but why not something else too !),
- re-using your previous piece of gear into a specific craft as a base material to make it stronger or more specific (stats wise) into something you are aiming for,
- storyline achievement gears that are just "too good" to replace, like a ring or an earring (is Rajas Ring ring like a bell for everyone? xD),
- legendary weapons questline, no, I'm not talking about our current relic weapons :p, they actually missed the opportunity by making them a "catch-up weapon" before getting the last "top tier endgame weapon", it's lame, very bad design to me x.x, last coil shouldn't drop them directly, it could be mandatory to "beat the hardest boss" to improve them but nothing related to the system we have now.
- mixing endgame crafting material drops with non-tradable items in order to craft powerful equipements,
- funny armory with weird, bizzare, odd, untypical stats like enhancing your chocobo exp gain rate or your "skills" while watering your personal garden plants xD

To be honest, this is just a couple of exemples of what we could get, there is no limits to a game designer / developer creativity.
That's why the current gear treadmill is looking a bit pathetic to say the least :x, new major update : player n°9255478 will replace his full armory ilevel 110 for ilevel 130, the differences? more base stats number and that's it, see you in 3-4 months to do it again.

I doubt they will do a horizontal system as new players will find it confusing. I also personally don't want one.

I'm sure that they could add some kind of horizontal system that new players would not find confusing. The set bonus suggestion is certainly something that could add great potential to the gear system, while not adding a large amount of confusion for players. A system like this has worked in WoW for many years. No reason to think that a similar system would not work in this game as well.

Even if SE sticks with vertical progression, there's still room for more creativity than what we have now. What about a "Reduces cooldown of Hallowed Ground by 1 min" ability or "Reduces TP of Savage Blade by 10"? I know this might be hard to balance but it would make gear a lot more flavorful and interesting.

Back to OP's original question, I don't know. I'm also really curious to see what happens to our old gear with a new max level. I don't really care if the old stuff becomes obsolete. That basically happens every other patch anyway and getting new gear is part of the fun. I hope there will still be a point to relic though even if it is just a final form that makes a great vanity piece.