The mayor issue with the free and premium weddings is that, it divides a single experience into a "free" one, which feels cheap, watered down and uncomplete, and the complete one, the one that "should have been" and makes it premium, behind a paywall. And that is TERRIBLE.
Having 2 diferent levels of game experiences separated by gamer`s wallet is bad, period. That is bad even on F2P games when they make really diferent for free accounts from premium accounts (the first model of the F2P SWTOR which charged you for skills bars as an example) is even worse on a P2P where you are, no matter what white knights try to say, paying for the experience.
----
Many of you like to argument: Is cosmetic, is not necesary, is "optional content". Well no, it isn`t just that, for a big chunk of players, is this side content where the meat of the game is, not raids, not PvP, but things like hunts, sightseeing, housing, now marriage and tomorrow gold saucer and triple triad. Yet, our experience, what we look, is already looked down as "optional", where for some of us is far more important to have a house and role play a couple than beat T9. Is for us that this experiences are being or badly delivered (hunts, sightseeing, housing) or being "divided" like "weddings" and possibly "gold saucer".
And this not only hurts us. It also hurts even cash shop supporters, cause what you guys are buying and getting sold isn`t even exclusive cash shop items, but things that should be in the game in the first place. Instead of being sold and buy cool unique premium mounts that truly show your support to the game, you only get things that pass the marketing team as "yeah, thats a cool feature, lets put it behind a paywall".
There is nothing good on the cash shop and probably never will if things keeps like this.
Thats why, this Cash Shop is bad for us. Is not about being a cash Shop, if it actually sold really premium mounts like for example, Could`s Fenrir Bike. But the cash shop will always sell regular, supposed to be on the game anyway, items removed and put behind a paywall. Thats why is bad, because isn`t even a true Cash Shop.
In an image, this is what is happening and this SHOUNDT happen on a subscription based game.
http://i.imgur.com/E7NINc1.jpg
-
12-03-2014, 12:59 AMAlexander_DragonfangIsn`t just vanity. Is 2 diferent experiences and thats why is bad.
-
12-03-2014, 01:04 AMMardel
Like many people have said before; you have no proof that it would have been added in without the pay wall. They likely wouldn't have added in the "premium" weddings at all and everything would have been basic or not even implemented. Be happy they put in a ceremony and not just a bracelet exchange quest.
So this thread I give you this award. (For doing what many others have done before you.)
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...40/686/696.gif -
12-03-2014, 01:10 AMAlexander_DragonfangSlepnir mount was on databases before the cash shop was even told to be added, back in the time when yoshida said it wasn`t going to be one. Slepnir mount was probably a possible Odin`s Mantle reward but then was probably reconsidered as Trial Mount reward and then, crap, Cash Shop becomes something, quickly grab something to put in there! and there you go. And something similar must have happend to minions and probably will happen from now on, as you will see, the cash shop filling with items that are in no way special and have no reason at all to be in the game in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardel
A regular, even for all wedding would be perfect. Far better than having 2 divided experiences by wallet in a P2P game. -
12-03-2014, 01:13 AMMeiUshu
I have a question for you all...seriously I would like to hear whatpeople have to say.
I understand is important for some of you to RP which I would like to do too but I am not good enough, anyway, I understand as well that some of you want to *get married* either because of RP or because is something you want to transpose from reality to virtuality fine by me...but frankly...do you really need a ceremony to formalize this? you know buying a house can be done independent of the marriage, it can be done with money one of you buy and you both live there, you can share the same house, share things as ify ou were married you can organize even a ceremony where you invite people you dont need it to be under the *marriage* thing that the game will propose.
Seriously, you all want this because of the perks for no other reasons you all complain bcause of the perks, because NOTHING prevents anyone from doing the marriage as it is today or live together or organize ceremonies, meetings or what not.
So why the hell is cash shop such a problem since you can have the same without paying ?
Ohh you want the horse and etc etc etc..why ? because is cool? why do you find such a crime because the others can have it and not you??? jealous ?
No seriously why making a big fuss over something so trivial ?
Nothing prevents you to RP a married couple as it is today....so?
Mei -
12-03-2014, 01:17 AMMardel1. Just because something is in the database doesn't mean we will get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
2. Your opinion about the wedding service is simply that, an opinion. (Just like mine.)
3. I haven't bought anything from the cash shop. (Before someone labels me as "supporter".)
4. Titan was in the database in 1.0 for over a year. Guess what? We didn't get until 2.0 lol.
5. There may be another Odin mount that we get. (With a super dark glow and smoke coming from it via primal fight.)
6. None of these will change your, or our opinion so there is no real point in this thread. -
12-03-2014, 01:18 AMAlexander_DragonfangIs how the experience is being delivered really. Thats the whole point here... On that argument of if really marriage is needed here... I could say, damn, we better move to a game with better and free marriage? (which are in the thousands btw). So, that actually doesn`t cover the point. The thing is, marriage, the eternal bond is an experience, and as a normal marriage, the dress, the decoration, the transport, is all part of the experience. If this was real life, i would accept i can`t have the 500.000 dollars wedding with VIP coming at it. But this is a game, and is exactly why this is bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeiUshu
The experience here should be the same for everyone. Not be divided by wallet.
1.- Actually, no, but it means it was meant to be in game and for some reason isn`t, like, the hundreds of materials just for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardel
2.- My opinion is actually based on the fact that, no one wants to play watered down experiences, which is what the "free" wedding is.
3.- I have bought retainer services. IM A TOTAL SUPPORTER OF A TRUE AND GOOD CASH SHOP, NOT THE ONE WE HAVE.
4.- As most materials, damn, there is maybe even Heavensward things on the data bases already. Lots of content doesn`t make it to the game.
5.- I hope it does, the ideal would be that everything on the cash shop was be able to be got in game too and the other way too, like the nightmare mounts.
6.- It might, and even if there is just 1 person between all the thousands that will read this thread and "meh" about it, that alone makest it worth every single keystroke. -
12-03-2014, 01:19 AMRiepah
Guess we have no proof they'll ever add higher ilvl stuff in the game, so if they make high end gear cash shop only from now on, it'll be fine, because it was surely intended as such all along.
-
12-03-2014, 01:20 AMlololinkIf your goal is to gather all the minions and mounts you don't want to be gated because of a cash shop, would you want your favorite activity to be gated by a cash shop ?Quote:
Originally Posted by MeiUshu
-
12-03-2014, 01:32 AMUltimatecaliburThat is mostly speculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
The Slepnir mount, Zantetsuken, Hjalmr, Herklaedi and the unnamed shield models only exist due to the mechanics of the Odin FATE. They could have designed Odin as a single unchanging figure, but decided to have him change based on his killer. To keep things simple they created the armor as 2 pieces (head and body) instead of 5, and equip the killers model with the 4 Odin pieces and mount him on Sleipnir. The Sleipnir Barding is the only thing that can be confirmed to be designed as a player reward. -
12-03-2014, 01:33 AMThemis(Not that I'd expect it to be fully read, I just like to write).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
Firstly, I'm fairly sure reading the data in the game can be considered against the ToS. It isn't something that should be done. The community have even been asked not to mine the files but they do it anyway.
Secondly, you have no proof of what the decision path was. Now I may be wrong, but I don't recall being told that Sleipnir Mount wouldn't be paid for via a cash shop. I don't even recall it being mentioned to be a thing until people discovered it by data mining.
It could have been decided to have been a cash shop item since day 1. It is only through data mining that the community speculated that the mount would come from the Odin Challenge. There was no proof that was the case, though. It was just speculation (which turned out to be wrong - and is one reason why dat mining is not encouraged).
Thirdly, more money being made by providing additional, optional services and items into the game, allows more money to be invested into the game itself (eg, by allowing more staff to be employed, or by providing better hardware for running the game on). Unless all of that money goes to outside sources, which have no bearing on the game at all (and would be a terrible thing to do), having extra avenues of income is not a bad thing. Even if only a percentage of the income goes back into the game (a considerable percentage, of course), it all helps improve the experience we have and allows that to happen at a faster rate.
Or can you not see that?
As an additional, regarding the P2P and the "but I pay a sub fee and that means I get access to all the content" comments that are always seen: This is not true at all. Your sub fee does not give you the right to have access to all of the content or an equal experience as every other player.
It lets you have unlimited access to the servers to start playing the game, and in the case of XIV it also gives you your character slots and two retainers for free. Once your on the servers, though, what content is available for free or not has nothing to do with your subscription fee. That's just how it is. This "sub fee only gives you access to the servers" is quite plainly evidenced by the fact that you often have to pay for the base game, or an expansion pack, to unlock the content that comes with it. "Oh, but that's different" I've heard said before. But no, it isn't. When you purchase the registration code for the game that code unlocks the content for you. And that content, even in the base game, is paid for content. That content did not come with your sub fee; it was actually a separate cost (though a lot of games offer a 30 day free trial out of courtesy and because it's a great marketing strategy).
When it comes to the optional services and items you can purchase via the Mog Station, this is simply extra things. Additional paid for content for the game.
In the User Agreement (which we all agree to when we install the game, and sign off on when we attach our registration codes to our accounts and log in), it is clearly stated what you get for your money. You'll find it all under Section 4 of the UA.
I'll throw them in here for easier viewing, emphasis mine:
That's what your subscription fee actually lets you have. Server access, a number of character slots depending on the fee paid and 2 retainers. Everything else falls under the "Additional Purchases" clause in the following section.Quote:
In order to access SQUARE ENIX’s servers to play the Game, you must agree to a recurring subscription package (“Subscription”) with a minimum subscription period of 30 days and pay a recurring subscription fee (“FINAL FANTASY XIV Subscription Fee”), which includes the fees for one or more playable character(s) (“Playable Character(s)”) plus two free non-playable characters (“Retainer Character(s)”).
This is actually a fair question.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
You could phrase it as:
"How would you feel if X Raid was gated by the Paid For optional service via the Mog Station?"
And my answer would be:
Would I prefer it to be freely available as part of the content that is unlocked via the registration codes I purchase? Sure. I think we all would.
Would it be unfair to gate it behind a monetary gate? No. That's up to the people behind the game, ultimately. It may be that many people don't buy it, which might lead to reduced subs and less money. That's called a "business decision". In the case it lost SE money, it would be a bad decision. If it gained them money, then from a business perspective it was successful. Simple as that, really, because it means people actually did pay for it and didn't mind doing so (they're pretty bad consumers if they buy something they disagree with).
If it was worth the money, then I'd pay for it. If I don't think it is worth it, then I won't. That's how I treat the current cash shop. Does having an Odin mount change my experience of the game enough to warrant purchasing it? No, it doesn't. So I have not. -
12-03-2014, 01:38 AMAlexander_DragonfangIs not data mining btw, it was on xivdb. haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
And the money being made by the cash shop is in no way going to the game delopment, we already know not even most of the subscription money is going there, thats delusional, im going to look for the numbers revelead, but is arround just a 5% of all subscriptions and sales money what goes to developing, cash shop money is exclusively going to SE shareholders.
Yes, that says i hace access to my character, and then, i have access to all the things my character CAN do. Marriage being one of those things. Why is it getting divided in two again? -
12-03-2014, 01:43 AMSenlitenYou do realize XIVDB is a third-party, pretty much they could of got the info from data-miners, just like with the sol gear.Quote:
Is not data mining btw, it was on xivdb. haha.
-
12-03-2014, 01:43 AMUltimatecaliburXivdb gets all its info by datamining the patches as they are released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
-
12-03-2014, 01:45 AMArkine
This thread got derailed pretty quick.
-
12-03-2014, 01:52 AMGenesis-xyx
I hate to stir the pot, so I've been trying to avoid these conversations but OP you really hit the nail on the head for me. I do not raid or participate in a lot of the extreme primals, the crowd drawn to them is usually unfriendly and unwilling to be patient with people who don't learn the fight the first week it is out, and that's not an additude I like to surround myself with. Also, I am far from a RPer, but it is the small "fluff" content in the game at I truely enjoy, the "optional" game aspects. I worked hard and saved for a FC house for my few friends in the FC and managed to buy myself a private house as well, infact it is these aspects that have me logging in daily. I have been so excited for the eternal bond system since it was announced, and now to find out that I might have to pay to get the full experience has somewhat ruined the immersion of it for me. i support the cash shop, but not for things like this.
-
12-03-2014, 01:52 AMAlexander_Dragonfang
I should have done emphasis in the "i don`t mine data myself cause there is 2304982409823 databases arround". I guess that`s what this topic is all about now.
-
12-03-2014, 01:57 AMThemisThe reason that I replied to that was because there was no other post at the time, and it's about clearing up the facts (even if the information being put forward was initially erroneous).Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
I've actually deleted my post because it offered nothing useful after two others also pointed out the mistake.
Still, I'd love to see the data on the money direction with regards to XIV. The topic should be about why paying for extra services, whether for vanity or otherwise, isn't a bad thing and the investment of the money made is quite central to that in my opinion. -
12-03-2014, 01:58 AMDoctorPepper
I can only agree with the OP, services such as these should not have anything to do with the cash shop, I wasn't aware they announced the wedding service having a premium cash shop option.
Have they said that the premium wedding will actually be different from the normal version? Are you sure that the premium option isn't just a way to avoid paying the gil or whatever else may be required while getting the same service/equipment overall? I missed the memo on weddings so this is a serious question. -
12-03-2014, 01:59 AMThemisIt will give you access to additional items like a mount and hairstyles, probably also minions. And I seem to recall something about having a moogle lead the ceremony. Not sure what the actual differences in the tiers are (there's 3 I believe), but we'll know that soon enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
The experience will be somewhat different depending on the service requested. Just like how a real wedding/ceremony tends to have more bells and whistles if you actually pay for it. -
12-03-2014, 02:00 AMSho86Any extras will be the paid only. Different look, chocobo 2 seater etc. I don't remember exact details but yeah, there is difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorPepper
-
12-03-2014, 02:00 AMArkine
I agree with the OP.
You can put chairs with batwings mounts in the cash shop and it won't phase me, but putting premium versions of ingame content is just bad. -
12-03-2014, 02:09 AMDoctorPepperWow, that's really something else. I have no intention of getting married in game but that feels like a really low blow to the people who have been waiting for it. SE has been boasting this wedding service for a really long time and now they're throwing it behind a pay wall. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disgusted by that idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themis
People always ask why people hate the cash shop, this is a prime example of why people hate it. Exclusive items/experiences only available via cash shop for features that have been boasted about for over half a year. -
12-03-2014, 02:21 AMSenlitenIf anything, you still get the whole wedding experience. Just think of the premiums as what your expense would be for an actual wedding. A couple hundred may get you hitched, but a couple thousand will get you a gold trim. However, the experience will end up being the same, it's just how lavish you truly want the experience to be, that makes you either wanna pull the wallet out or not. Pretty sure the website being worked on as per the live letter stating, can explain further what our money for gold or whatnot premiums will go towards. Hell, for all we know gold can be simply $10 and all this outrage ending up being over nothing as deep as everyone keeps clamoring on that it is going to be.Quote:
People always ask why people hate the cash shop, this is a prime example of why people hate it. Exclusive items/experiences only available via cash shop for features that have been boasted about for over half a year.
-
12-03-2014, 02:35 AMDoctorPepperI can't agree with you, the entire wedding experience should be available in game without paying any real money. According to posters in this thread, even npcs are going to be different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
This feature has been in development long before cash shop even existed which means that we paid for them to develop this content with our subscriptions. If that's not double dipping then idk what is.
I won't personally quit the game over this but I feel bad for people who have been looking forward to this feature for over half a year. -
12-03-2014, 02:39 AMMeier
Couple thousand? Lol. Gf and I are getting married in bora bora eventually. I wish that was just a couple thousand. >.>
And yeah I agree with I OP. Hyping up content for a year then gating a premium version is disappointing. Putting mounts, minions is whatever. But having a free version and paid version of content in a p2p game is a let down. -
12-03-2014, 02:42 AMAkuryuIf the standard wedding was free while the gold wedding cost 1 million gil, I'd have no problem with it. Real money should not enter the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
I'm picturing next year's anniversary event... All the old yukatas and swimsuits will be in the cash shop. That's just a given. Regular subscribers will get to play the minigames and buy fireworks off the vendor. They'll sell anniversary passes for $20. The pass lets you experience the full event, including a new questline, cutscenes, rewards, a new emote and a minion. There will also be an anniversary mount in the shop for $25. HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!...? -
12-03-2014, 03:08 AMRiepahYou'd be making more sense if the best kind of real-life wedding would require you to pay in a currency from a different dimension, entirely unattainable in this world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
-
12-03-2014, 03:24 AMlololink1 mount, dyable outfits and minions for both players ? what would it make, only (25x2=) 50 $ ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
-
12-03-2014, 03:34 AMSenlitenFor all we know, we could be redirected to the lil EB website SE is making and have a pick and choose sorta thing, but nah, lets all just go on ahead and play the gloom and doom of FFXIV card.Quote:
Originally Posted by lololink
-
12-03-2014, 03:41 AMSongiThat's my problem with it. At least give players a CHOICE to either pay with their credit cards or make it a large sum of gil so our hard-earned gil has a purpose again. SE cries about inflation in the economy so much and yet the last gil sink we had was player housing (which was short-lived). I got over 30mil gil on hand, I'd at least like to be able to spend it on something nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by Riepah
-
12-03-2014, 05:27 AMChibiChan_HyperionJust as no one has proof this would have been added without the Shop, no one has proof that this won't continue into the future with other events. I would absolutely rather have no event at all, than start having to pay for them one by one as they come out. I'd much rather the buck stopped here on selling in-game events, and the shop be limited to items.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardel
-
12-03-2014, 05:34 AMNel_CelestineWedding isn't locked. The mount, minions and some slight alterations to the outfits are ~potentially~ in the cash shop. There is Zero Official confirmation that it will cost Real Money anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChibiChan_Hyperion
-
12-03-2014, 05:48 AMDhex
If you really don't want any cash shop or extra items because you don't like "gated content" or "pay wall" items that you can't obtain through playing then sack up and ask for all of it to be removed - or be an adult and understand that extras are extra.
Take everything that isn't directly obtainable through actions and events currently available in the game which includes;
Goobbue mount
Legacy Chocobo mount
Cash Shop Slepnir
All Subscription rewards - Mounts, Furnishings, minions, gear
Legacy Event Gear & items
Weathered Gear
OST minions (Dalamud, Bahamut)
FanFest minions
Merch. minions
C.E v1.0 & 2.0 - Mounts, Minions, EXP bonus gear, Movement bonus gear
Cash Shop minions
Livestream Bonus items
Don't want to remove all those bonus extra items? Then you're going to need to learn to live with the cash shop they've gone ahead with because the precedent for it started well before v2.0 came up for alpha testing. -
12-03-2014, 05:51 AMTupsiIssue #1: We weren't supposed to know this and this is why SE hates dat mining.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang
Issue #2: Sleipnir is an entity separate from Odin (unlike FFXI which is a single entity for his battle model), considering Odin changes based on who last got the killing blow, it logically can't be the same model for both.
Reality #1: NONE of you that keep arguing "this would have been an in-game reward" has no proof of such - Odin has loot turn ins via Capes - If it was going to be an in-game "not cash shop" item, it would have been added to that over the last year by now, long before any of us even thought of a cash shop. -
12-03-2014, 06:08 AMKinseykinzThe house, you actually CANNOT 100% share access to a personal home atm with someone else. Sure, they can crash there but that is all, they cannot:Quote:
Originally Posted by MeiUshu
1. Move items/decorate
2. Plant/harvest in the garden
3. Stable a chocobo/clean the stable
4. Use the NPC's or usable items (such as food)
5. Interact with items such as lights.
So for now, if you just want to live together, without the bond...especially if you wish to do it for 'shared housing' You NEED to form your own solo/small FC. Which while plausible (and I know folk who did it just so they could share a home), isn't really what a FC should be about and also then forces these people to not be able to join a larger FC where they can maybe be more supported with other in-game activities in game (such as raiding/leveling etc). So basically, unless you don't mind foregoing being in a more traditional FC, this option is very limiting.
Also, as I've said in other posts on the matter:
I don't actually mind the fact that you can by an upgraded version if you desire...what I'm wary of is that the ONLY thing buying the gold plan gets them (extra mount/minion/clothes)....or will it mean they get better 'perks' later as well. Such as easier access to a ceremony slot and/or access to housing/tele locations etc that the 'Standard' account won't offer. I just want confirmation that the only thing people are buying is the 'vanity' stuff...or even confirmation that no, in fact it's only Gold people who will be able to share housing etc...so I can make an informed and educated decision on what type of ceremony suits my and my husbands needs.
1. I don't think there has ever been a single instance of something being in the game files that sooner or later didn't appear. Seriously, if it's there, we're getting it...at some point. Now the HOW it appears/why you can argue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mardel
2. Correct, but at the same time, it could be argued that WHY are they doing this? Why did they decide to add 2 different tiers of weddings to the game, one Cash Shop and one Free?
3. I have, and I still don't think it's a good thing. (I have an additional retainer slot). I think the cash shop option encourages SE to participate in bad behavior. Like for example, what motivation does SE have in providing us each with 'free' adequate storage if they stand to profit more on selling additional storage via additional retainers.
4. Yes, and it was supposed to be released in 1.0 (as was Levi to be honest) but between them re-writing the game for 2.0, AND the Tsunami that hit Japan around that time, they considered it both a waste in production time and in poor taste to add the 'god of earthquakes' and the 'god of waves' when so many players had just experienced Real Life terror on that front.
5. If we get another 'Odin' mount, it won't be Slepnir, it'd be a 'black pony with some sort of special effect that otherwise is the exact same character design as every other primal pony' More on point, if/when we get the Odin primal battle, don't you think that would have been the logical place to introduce his mount...his real mount?
6. Same can be said to you. -
12-03-2014, 06:25 AMParodineWhen one vanity mount is in the cash shop for $24.00, I don't think his estimate is unreasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Senliten
-
12-03-2014, 06:26 AMMeshicoOne thing from this whole thing, and then I'll be on topic. Yoshida-san, and team. Showed a Lalafell on top of Slephnir in a picture quite some time ago, someone with more time than me can surely find it, so the Slephnire "mount" was in the game in some shape or form. People even asked about it and said could we have that? I am paraphrasing here "It's just a developer having fun, we probably should not have shown that" or something to that effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseykinz
I disagree with the OP. Marriage, is something they gave us and was probably made possible by the fact that people pay for retainers and Odin mounts and minions. (ALL SPECULATION).
Having said that I'm all for pay to get ***BONUS NON GAME BREAKING ITEMS*** because it helps support this wonderful games in more way's than our tiny brains can understand (I'm speaking for myself...and a few others) because we are not a Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of multi-million dollar company! I/we just think in smaller terms and so we tend to jump to many little conclusions.
If there is any CEO out there playing ffxiv, please enlighten me and others, on why this cash shop exists! :D
-Tari
I would have just quoted this if I had just waited a little longer...ok now back to the grind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shneibel
-
12-03-2014, 06:26 AMShneibel
the assumption is big in those thread now a day
-
12-03-2014, 06:39 AMVondoomervil
All this over a virtual wedding in a video game... Sweet jesus, Humans these days.
-
12-03-2014, 06:42 AMAlexander_DragonfangIf this was happening to Raids it would be the same. Cause it doesn`t affect you doesnt make it irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vondoomervil
Specially since they have pretty much hyped this system a lot, just as they did with housing... One fiasco after another.