Was it because with all 3 DoTs plus thunder fused with contagion that it was too much dps or was it because SMN needed a better aoe so they gave us blizzard 2, but if that's the case why not just give us blizzard 2 without taking anything away. It could be that its weird to contagion spark of electricity, but that's probably stretching it. Do you guys think we will get a fourth DoT and 2 new egis when the expansion comes out?
Why did SE take thunder away from SMN?
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12-01-2014, 08:00 PMBigcat9715Why did SE take thunder away from SMN?
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12-01-2014, 10:05 PMBishop81
Probably too much DPS.
It's also kind of a lot of DoTs ... IMHO 3 is quite enough.
Personally I don't think the Job is well designed, it doesn't seem very "extendable" - just my opinion; I could be wrong.
No idea what SMN will get in Heavensword other than new Egis. More DoTs would be ...
Don't know what to think of the new Egis either. Got a feeling they will end up feeling more like "replacements" than "additions" since they are mutually exclusive with our current entourage.
We just have to see what next expansion brings I suppose. -
12-01-2014, 11:45 PMManaKing
Thunder was delightfully broken on SMN
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12-01-2014, 11:53 PMEphier
Way too much damage.
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12-02-2014, 12:28 AMBigcat9715Yea, I think they should rework ACN maybe make it more buff/debuff having to put bravery on the melee dps or faith on magic users while debuffing the enemy. Maybe make the damage output for ACN based on the buff you give to your party, the debuff on the enemy, and your pet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
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12-02-2014, 12:40 AMJudge_Xero
30 Potency + 18s @ 35 Potency + 15s Extension from Contagion
An extra 415 Potency attack for single target (240 Potency without Contagion) - Yep OP
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SMN will probably go into applying further buffs on your DOTs and then refreshing the timers on them to maintain that buffed damage for as long as possible. -
12-02-2014, 12:59 AMRyuDragnierAs it was on WHM and SCH as well. That damage while in Cleric Stance was amazing~ <3Quote:
Originally Posted by ManaKing
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12-02-2014, 01:32 AMHouston009
Every new job/class introduced in any MMO are usually slightly OP/underwhelming, NIN and SMN(slightly op) are prime examples.
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12-02-2014, 07:22 AMOsmond
Didn't want to make SMNs too OP regarding DoTs and I think contagion buff I think?
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12-02-2014, 07:55 AMSleigh
I'm actually unsure if SMN would be able to use Thunder in FCoB. IIRC it was the first thing to be taken out when MP was an issue since its MP to damage ratio was horrific without Contagion, and since SMN has to take a lot of liberties as is I'm not sure it'd be that great outside of opener and with Contagions.
Definitely was a factor in why SMN was the most absolutely broken DPS in 2.0 though, a party full of 2.0 BRDs and SMNs were probably the best comp for most fights. -
12-02-2014, 08:20 AMBishop81If we are talking hypotheticals, I would like to see something like,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat9715
Sapphire Carbuncle - has no auto-attack, cannot be target or damaged and has only one ability,- Coalesce
Generate a 5 yard Aetherfield around the target and drawing all enemies within 8 yards into the Aetherfield. 15 sec CD. Aetherfield lasts for 20 secs.
- Aetherfield
All targets in the Aetherfield have their movement speed by reduced.
- Aetherfield
ACN abilities,- Ruin - does 1.5x damage to targets affected by Aetherfield.
- Bio/Bio II/Miasma - will now spread to all targets in the Aetherfield if one target within is afflicted.
- Gravity - collapse the Aetherfield (i.e. dispelling it) slowing all targets within by 100% where they gradually return to normal speed over 5 secs.
- ... etc.
As for what to do with Fester and Bane ... I don't know. ヽ（。▽°）ﾉ - Coalesce
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12-04-2014, 02:47 AMSanguisio
Because like always SE hates SMNs, they dont even give us a pen to write with...............
*equips book*.............so I am writing with my finger then I guess. xD -
12-04-2014, 05:46 AMJudge_XeroWhat?!?!?!? you can't see the pen? Only the bestest Summoners can see it.... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanguisio
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12-04-2014, 11:44 AMShaolinMikeYou don't have to write. The book is already written, you just read the spells :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sanguisio
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12-05-2014, 07:37 AMSenBosaIIRC, they are planning to do a complete overhaul of the egis so that every single pet can be viable (since right now everyone's go to choice is Garuda for Trials and Coil). Leviathan and Ramuh Egi's have been confirmed, no word about Shiva or Odin Egi's though. Personally I want to see Leviathan Egi have his main spamming skill be really weak but be aoe, so that he'd be the go to choice of egi for dungeon runs. It'd be cool if one of the Egi's also had a DoT. As for new skills for SMN, I'd like to see another use for an aetherflow stack, like letting them use contagion instead of Garuda, or having a skill similar to fester except much stronger and it will remove the DoT's from the enemy (it would be a nice finisher for adds since at the end of an add's death you either are dealing really low dps from spamming ruin and having no DoT's up or re-applying your DoT's on a target that only has 5-6 seconds left to live).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop81
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12-05-2014, 12:01 PMHiruke
It was part of their master plan to take SMN from being the top single target dps to the bottom single target dps. Btw, that mission was successful. SMN is now the worst at single target dps out of every job in the entire game, even though at launch they were the absolute best. Um, thanks, SE!
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12-05-2014, 02:30 PMBishop81Having played WoW for years ... If I had a dollar for every time I have heard that claim ...Quote:
Originally Posted by SenBosa
Ya, I'm not optimistic. :x -
12-05-2014, 04:13 PMBlaiseArath
Don't we have 5 DoTs? Bio, Bio II, Miasma, Miasma II, Shadowflare.
Also, I would hope when they consider the overhaul of pets, just remove Contagion from Garuda and give it to the SMN as an off GCD ability with the same recast time... Garuda excells not only because of her caster status keeping her out of AoE range and her higher DPS (srsly wtf at that), but because Contagion is so so so so nice for SMN lol. -
12-05-2014, 05:03 PMSleighIfrit actually does considerably more than Garuda, especially with a WAR/NIN and/or MNK present. The main drawback of using Ifrit is your MP goes down the tube from much more constant recasting of your DoTs, but in short enough content, like T6 or many trials, Ifrit is better than Garuda.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaiseArath
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12-05-2014, 05:16 PMRiepahActually, the summon animations clearly have us writing into the book with a quill.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaolinMike
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12-05-2014, 05:17 PMBlaiseArathHmm, thought I remembered throwing Ifrit at a Test dummy and he ended up doing less damage than Garuda. I guess I remembered wrong :XQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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12-05-2014, 06:00 PMShinryuReishikiI don't think the MP consumption is actually that bad. With Contagion, each minute you're essentially able to cast 3 more Ruins, which is 161 MP less than casting the three dots again, but if you're using Miasma II with Contagion, you're not really conserving MP at all. I've only used Ifrit-egi in T11 and T13, but MP seemed nearly the same as with Garuda-egi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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12-05-2014, 06:29 PMSleigh
Hmm, I haven't tried Ifrit T11 or T13 yet; were you getting Ballad?
On a dummy, I officially go dry around 3m20s with Ifrit, while Garuda affords me closer to 4m20s before going dry. This is without SCH in the party, MP pots, or Energy Drain in either test. -
12-05-2014, 07:38 PMCraiger
This happened a long time ago guys, them removing Thunder for SMN a year ago, isn't the cause of SMN's fall this patch...
SMN was OP back then, and up until 2.4, SMN was a very good DPS.
Having Thunder now would only patch over the problems they have, and it wouldn't help with the MP issue, or with bad gear stats.
With the right stats and without MP issues, SMN are perfectly balanced. If you add Thunder on top of that, they would be OP again... -
12-06-2014, 12:11 AMJudge_XeroI use Ifrit on T11 because my group also has a BLM. So I RS, DoT + Contagion the Cube. Then Swift Cast Ifrit and put it Obey on the Sphere since my group is lacking the extra Melee damage on it. Then I just leave it out for the rest of the fight. One thing I haven't been able to check is if Garuda does any damage at all on Kaliya after it absorbs the Egg, since you can't do any ranged damage to her at that point. (must be within melee range) Aside from moving her to within melee range of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
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12-06-2014, 12:59 AMBigcat9715Really? I thought bard had the lowest single target dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiruke
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12-06-2014, 02:18 AMHirukeOn a striking dummy, I imagine that's true, but in actual content, since BRDs can continuously attack regardless of pretty much anything, their dps still ends up being pretty ridiculous. And that's after they got nerfed into the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat9715
Regardless, SMN is probably one of the more challenging jobs to play correctly, since you have to manage at least 4 different DoT timers (I'm including Shadowflare here), and if you want to maximize your dps, you need to know the fight forwards and back, because you need to know the best times to Contagion, how much time you have to land your DoTs, when the best time to reapply your DoTs is, etc. etc.
And of course if you want to minimize wasting GCD, using Ruin2 or Bio before using off-GCD CDs (and not doing the Ruin2 bit so often you ruin your mp - though unless the mob jumps off the arena a lot, your mp is probably going to get ruined).
And what do you get for your trouble? Basically the lowest effective dps on anything that matters that isn't basically tailored to SMN (e.g., Levi EX is amazing for SMN), a battle raise that will wreck your mp, and umm... You're really good at kiting Turn 7 pre-nerf? Yay!
Contrast with BLM and BRD, that you basically just faceroll, and it becomes rather odd that SE said that MNK was ok to be so dominating because it was more complex to play than DRG, when SMN is not similarly compensated. -
12-06-2014, 05:58 AMShinryuReishikiNo Ballad at all in T11. I use Ifrit-egi from the start, and go into add phase with ~1000 MP usually. We run 2 casters, so I'm on the Electric Node with Ifrit-egi on the Weapons Node. I don't cast anything on the other adds unless a group is falling behind. I also don't use Shadow Flare at all during this part, so I end up recovering enough to manage for the last phase. Usually end up 2nd/3rd DPS depending on how our BLM does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleigh
For T13, no Ballad at all in the first 2 phases. I've only cleared once so far, so I'm mainly just comparing those first 2 phases. With both pets, I was having to use an Energy Drain on each Shadow to keep above 700 MP. Thinking about it, MP consumption was a little higher with Ifrit-egi, but we were getting to phase 3 a little faster, leaving me around the same number.
During phase 3, Ballad is played during the dives and the transition to final phase, which is more than enough to last me the rest of the fight (Generally going into last phase at near full MP). I ended up sitting on a ton of MP because our healers still needed some Ballad during the last phase. Managed to barely squeeze by the NIN for top DPS, but not really sure if my numbers were "good" since most people just aren't bringing SMN into the fight. I expect to get destroyed by our BLM next week, though...