So we all know DRK will be an "evasion and parry" tank. The question is if this job will be MT-centric like paladins or OT-centric like warrior.
If the evasion and parry aspects are controlled ( i.e. abilities similar to perfect dodge; guaranteed dodge/parry on the next magic/physical attack) then DRK would make a terrific main tank. I imagine if they do this, then the 'lolyoucantkillme' ability wouldn't be anywhere near as strong as hallowed ground.
However, if the evasion and parry aspects are governed with RNG (i.e. abilities like Keen Flurry/Featherfoot; increased chance of dodge/parry for x amount of time) then DRK would be better suited for OT.
What I'm hoping the devs do with DRK is that they make it something in-between; good for either OT or MT but not the best in either role.
Dark Knight - OT or MT?
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12-01-2014, 07:07 PMKassiekaneDark Knight - OT or MT?
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12-01-2014, 07:46 PMMarxam
Evasion and Parry? lol Your basing tank qualities on rng rather than straight mitigation?
As for the PLD vs WAR its exactly the same and the only difference is the fact that PLD has 10 sec immunity and WAR has slightly better dps while tanking (holmgang still sucks though). WAR is very competitive when it comes to mitigation having a 20% dmg reduction on demand. Also, WAR can survive longer in certain situations better than PLD because of the self heals. I survived Fenrir after our healer died at 80% by berserk IB's and SP's and proper use of def cd's. People opt for PLD as MT due to the utility it has being a stun bot and access to silence and HG. Plus its much easier on the healers where as WAR's, healers will be seeing our hp's ping pong from critical to full hp and they normally panic in those situations since they think we are going to die and start spamming heals.
I'm hoping DRK takes this concept and fleshes it out fully since people who have played war at launch (including myself) know how crazy 300% heals are. More emphasis on the Life/Soul drain the DRK is so well known for. If this goes through I may just have to rename myself to Goffard Gaffgarion. -
12-01-2014, 07:54 PMKrr
Good WARs are actually a lot more stable in the HP department than most people think, because properly timed and cycled Inner Beast/Vengeance/Thrill of Battle pops will significantly flatten the amount of damage most 'tank killer' attacks will deal.
Both of the tanks actually have their own pros and cons to being the MT and OT - PLD actually has higher singletarget OT DPS with Sword Oath and Fracture brought in, TMK, it's far easier for them to stunbot when not spending their GCDs to keep an aggro lead, and they aren't any worse-off than WAR in single-target add phases, WAR has more DPS in Defiance than a PLD does in Shield Oath and more 'holy crap I need aggro NOW' tools, etc, etc.
I'm curious not as to what DRK will use to 'mitigate damage' but what utility they will bring to the party. A tank class is a lot more than its dodge, parry, block, and HP values.
Especially because Dodge, Parry, and Block all suck. -
12-01-2014, 08:03 PMPsykotsu
I'm pretty sure it will have the tools to play as either role just like both of the current tanks.
I'm not sure where you assume that it'll be evasion or parry though.. -
12-01-2014, 08:07 PMNexxusI'd say, spells. Drain effect spells. Absorb stats/strenght/etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by Krr
It could lead to a tank that lower enemies strenght while getting stronger defense for himself, so it benefit the entire party. but it could also be something else, we have to wait and see... -
12-01-2014, 09:01 PMKassiekaneAsk Yoshi-P that. When they announced DRK, all they literally said that it would be an evasion/parry tank and would use the power of darkness. There's only 2 ways parry/evasion are usually implemented in a tab-targeting game, which I listed in op.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marxam
I'm not starting a WAR vs PLD argument here, the whole MT/OT statement is just the typical set up. As WAR main I'm well aware that war is a good MT. -
12-01-2014, 09:13 PMDududeDude
Judging by currently available information I can with complete certainty say that dark knights will be either off or main tanking.
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12-01-2014, 10:05 PMInzoumCan you quote where this is from? I saw the reveal announcement and I don't remember anything of the sort in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassiekane
Traditionally (that is not FFXI), Dark Knights sacrifice their HP to enhance their attacks. I'd put my money on this more than I would on your "evasion tank" theory. -
12-01-2014, 10:06 PMGarlyleaww shoot, and here I was gonna play mine as a healerQuote:
Originally Posted by DududeDude
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12-01-2014, 10:08 PMInzoumBlock doesn't suck. Try tanking as PLD without a shield. It's part of the overall damage mitigation process, just more RNG based. Cut it out entirely and you'll see the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krr
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12-01-2014, 10:20 PMKassiekaneQuote:
Originally Posted by Psykotsu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzoum
LinkQuote:
No word on how the omission of a class will affect the leveling structure, but it was mentioned that the job will focus on dodging and parrying to reduce damage
/10char -
12-01-2014, 10:29 PMInzoumIt's nice to see that you're willing to write a full sentence such as "This is where I read about xyz: LINK". It feels so much more civilized and respectful than people who'd just go "LINK /10char". Oh wait. Nevermind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassiekane
Thanks for the link, though. We'll see how this develops as we get more info near Heavensward's relase. -
12-01-2014, 10:41 PMTiggy
We don't know anything about it's skill set. This question can not possibly be answered.
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12-01-2014, 10:42 PMKuwagamibah my post is messed due to messages coming after. My answer is after the side noteQuote:
Originally Posted by Kassiekane
side note to complete this :Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzoum
While evasion is totally worthless (mostly only trash is affected, rates are horrible etc...), parry has its use as is. Don't stack it, but don't neglect it, it might save your life (if only it could apply on magical damage though... T_T)
On the other hand, the block rate is like godsent. Use a buckler, you become a block-bot with a high blocking rate (which becomes so useful for huge pulls are very high damaging physical attacks as you have a high chance of blocking them)..
Anyone saying parry and block are worthless doesn't understand the mitigation potential of these 2 stats.
Not even mentioning that a PLD without a shield loses a few skills ^^
mind having a real interview or the video extract of this ? No offense, but the "it is said that" isn't convincing me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassiekane
EDIT : cross-sourcing seems to go in your way. Seems really strange and not in line with the spirit of DRK but why not ? We'll see what it gives and decide if it's worth our time or not -
12-01-2014, 11:05 PMAshkendor
Seems silly to have it based on evasion/parry when parry only works on physical attacks. o.o
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12-01-2014, 11:26 PMPriwia
I watched the FF14 London Fest (Premium) and Yoshi talked about Dark Knight as a parry/evasion tank with 2h sword and dark magic.
But I think we have just to wait and see. -
12-01-2014, 11:57 PMMeshico
I look forward to Dark Knight, Parry skills I think are underestimated, with reason because of the RNG nature of the skill, and A job that focuses on Parry will emphasize how important it can be. It will surely have something like pld's "BULWARK" (increase block rate by 60%) not to 60% but up by 60%. As people have already mentioned, it's game-life saver :)
Either way, when it comes out, it will 100% w/o a doubt not be it's final tweeked form. Because the way Yoshida-san envisions us playing classes/jobs as to how people actually play it seem to be a little off (see ninja nerf and the reason for it!)
-Tari
p.s. It should have the option to play both, just like warrior, and just like pld :) -
12-02-2014, 01:05 AMRhaja
DRK will be a AT. All Tank. No other tank needed to help him do 8 mans. Sword is so big and stronk that he can do both roles on his own god **** self!
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12-02-2014, 02:05 AMMardel
I actually hoped DRK would become a class the specializes in magic damage mitigation. However, given it will be using magic/parry I feel that it will be able to do something similar to adlo on themselves.
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12-02-2014, 02:13 AMAegis
It will be both. If it is found to be unable to MT endgame content it will be buffed until it can.
SE/the playerbase won't accept a second tier tank. -
12-02-2014, 02:27 AMDeathscythe343
It is hard to say one way or the other with the very little information we have at the moment.
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12-02-2014, 02:46 AMRecaldy
It'll either avoid damage or recover a high % of each dmg taken to keep it fair while being a tank class.
I'm expecting their invincibility ability to be drain spikes absorbing 95%+ dmg for 10+ seconds. -
12-02-2014, 03:14 AMWalielThey shroud their weapons with dark magics, partially deflecting magical attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
Or something.
Not too thrilled about evasion tanks, but we'll see. -
12-02-2014, 03:19 AMAshkendorEh, maybe. And yeah, I'm not really all that happy to see this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waliel
Evasion/parry as they are now are totally dependent on RNG. -
12-02-2014, 04:06 AMLadon
I doubt at the core they will play much different than Warriors and Paladins. They've pretty much figured out how to balance classes by making them pretty much the same.
I suspect that DRK will have built in mitigation like Paladin (I'm guessing a spike shield type buff. Basically a lower powered Vengeance that is on all the time). Then they'll probably just make ability drains for the actives. Like reduce enemy defense by 10% and increase defense of the DRK by 10%, decrease enemy attack by 10%, increase DRK by 10%, etc. I'm sure a high powered HP drain will be thrown into the mix as well.