Dragoon Changes

There have recently been rumors that the dragoon will be receiving some changes to the job. If at all possible I would like SE to consider the following changes. Considering the job, have spineshatter drive become the jump that returns you to your original location and make jump the gap closing attack. I believe that this fits the role and improves the gameplay of the role. For initial pulls, when you use jump and are retuned to your original location, often times you have to run further to begin attacking again depending on where the tank stops to grab agro for the rest of the mob. The time spent running back to the mob reduces DPS time and the fact that this is done without any additional effect just doesn't make any sense. If jump allowed you to land on the target you could continue to attack without interruption, it would also allow players to use jump to move over area's that cause damage, such as the poison pools in the first rooms of the crystal tower.Using spineshatter works but if spineshatter jump is used on one of the maidens the player risks the maidens building a resistance to stun attacks which prevent their AOE from being stunned, this hurts the raid. (This is just one example) Having the ability to jump to a target makes sense, this is what dragoon's do, they jump. If spineshatter returned you to your location the stun effect becomes far more useful also. This allows you to attempt to stun an attack or possible AOE without having to worry about being inside the AOE if the stun fails. It also becomes useful when DPS'ing a target and another member of the party is inside a stunable AOE. If the player is paying attention they could stun the target while still being able to DPS their current because the jump returns them to their starting location which helps the party. Also, elusive jump needs to be reworked, as it stands now it is useless. (This is just my opinion but in many discussions I've had most agree). In my time playing FFXIV I have never seen a dragoon use elusive jump as a tool, I have only ever seen I used for show in trash mob pulls, never during a real fight. (Who would even consider using that tech in a titan EX fight, NOBODY!) I would suggest drastically reducing the cool down time (60sec) and allowing the play to pick an area to land, much like the ninja tech shukuchi. This would make the ability useful and, again, this is what dragoons do, they jump. Even in the dragoon job quest story line, when the player first meets Estinien, Estinien jumps down the mountain, he does not walk or climb down, he jumps, and when he leaves he jumps again. Dragoon's should have a reliable means to "jump" to safety. Please take the time to consider my suggestions and thank you for all your hard work on a game I love to play and will continue to invest in.

Allow me to re-phrase my statement about EJ, and before the rage continues, these are my opinions to help the class, not to complain. I do agree "USELESS" is to strong of a term, broken fits better, and all of your post further my argument. Every post states that they use EJ as a gap closer....... As far a EJ is concerned, this is the farthest thing from what it was designed for. A movement designed to get away from danger, reduce agro and remove you from the fight is consistently, and primarily being used to jump into the fight and gain agro quicker.... I am not saying that you should not be using all techniques to their fullest potential but this is the exact opposite of what it is designed for. It would be like constantlyusing spineshatter to jump out of an AOE. It makes no sense... yes you can if you need to, but you would never use that as it's primary purpose. I am looking for it to be reworked to function for both purposes, at least allow me to jump forward, turning around to backflip into a fight is not how it was meant to be used. The cool down timer too... 180 is far to long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hittokiri

Also, elusive jump needs to be reworked, as it stands now it is useless. (This is just my opinion but in many discussions I've had most agree). In my time playing FFXIV I have never seen a dragoon use elusive jump as a tool, I have only ever seen I used for show in trash mob pulls, never during a real fight. (Who would even consider using that tech in a titan EX fight, NOBODY!)

---

Titan ex is a prime example of how elusive jump is useful and honestly one of the first fights I found it to have great use. During add phase once they die pools appear on the ground sometimes forcing you to eat a bomb if you cant get out. Elusive jump negates this issue. Proper placement will allow you to avoid all bombs and being able to master this allows you to go all in on the adds without worry. Another prime example of usefulness is a reverse gap closer. Most recently useful in T10 when the adds are separated but one needs a bit to kill it. Same deal with Levi Ex with the bubble phase. Same deal with Ramuh with adds. The only issue I have with elusive jump and spineshatter for that matter is the fact that even though your character is in the air covering ground, whatever ground you happen to pass over that has a weird effect or an aoe going off, you may eat it depending on timing. And although cumbersome, in raid situations when main tank dies and offtank has to voke, its nice to free up that enmity especially if you are 2nd on the list.

Elusive jump is an amazing gap closer and the funnest part of DRG..it's perfect as is. If you can't find uses for it resort to the post above mine. Or look for uses. Don't complain just because you're not too sure how it works. I use it in Titan ex all the time

I use Elusive Jump on a fairly regular basis for various reasons. It's great for getting out of large AoEs that don't leave you enough time to run out or as a gap closer, plus it allows you to dump hate if a tank dies or loses aggro on something for a moment. In fact, I just used it for that very purpose earlier in my expert roulette run where the tank pulled more than they could handle and lost hate on one of the enemies. I just Elusive Jumped out of the way and let the tank grab aggro back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hittokiri

In my time playing FFXIV I have never seen a dragoon use elusive jump as a tool, I have only ever seen I used for show in trash mob pulls, never during a real fight.

---

If your DRG is not using elusive jump as a gap closer, they need to reevaluate their play style.

Unfortunately, EJ still suffers from X axis aoe damage like ramuh's circular aoe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hittokiri

Also, elusive jump needs to be reworked, as it stands now it is useless. (This is just my opinion but in many discussions I've had most agree). In my time playing FFXIV I have never seen a dragoon use elusive jump as a tool, I have only ever seen I used for show in trash mob pulls, never during a real fight.

---

Elusive jump is not useless . . I use them all the time for gap closer or evading stuffs. And I've always use them for most raid content, T4 - T5, T6 - T9 and T10 - T13

You lost credibility when you called Elusive Jump useless.

Yes, it could be improved on, but its not useless.

Elusive is definitely not useless, it's just a matter of quickly positioning yourself to not get shrekt by something you were trying to avoid (something you get used to with practise).

I wish EJ's cooldown was shorter. There aren't very many chances to use it with the current cooldown timer.

Allow me to re-phrase my statement about EJ, and before the rage continues, these are my opinions to help the class, not to complain. I do agree "USELESS" is to strong of a term, broken fits better, and all of your post further my argument. Every post states that they use EJ as a gap closer....... As far a EJ is concerned, this is the farthest thing from what it was designed for. A movement designed to get away from danger, reduce agro and remove you from the fight is consistently, and primarily being used to jump into the fight and gain agro quicker.... I am not saying that you should not be using all techniques to their fullest potential but this is the exact opposite of what it is designed for. It would be like constantly using spineshatter to jump out of an AOE. It makes no sense... yes you can if you need to, but you would never use that as it's primary purpose. I am looking for it to be reworked to function for both purposes, at least allow me to jump forward, turning around to backflip into a fight with an agro reducing tech I what I am looking to eliminate. The cool down timer too... 180 is far to long.

I've used Elusive Jump to help me/the raid and know other Dragoons who have too - it's a useful skill to have, and not particularly broken; I personally don't have to use it often enough to make the cooldown an issue at all. It's a nice tool to have alongside Spineshatter and Dragonfire Dive.

All that being said if they changed elusive to work like Shukuchi I would be so happy.

Heavy Thrust to 20%, Phlebotomize cost reduced to 70 TP (original: freaking 90 TP), Jump cooldown reduced to 30s, Power Surge appliable to Dragonfire Dive, Feint being given a new purpose and trait, Elusive Jump cooldown reduced to 2m or less. Just a couple of things I wouldn't mind.

I also don't think you should be using jump/spine shatter or dragonfire for opening pulls seeing as how it loses out on the damage bonus from heavy thrust and the lower res from disembowel. Aside from getting your name on the eminty meter it's a really ineffective way to start your rotation especially if you jump then have to run for 5 seconds to the target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hittokiri

Allow me to re-phrase my statement about EJ, and before the rage continues, these are my opinions to help the class, not to complain. I do agree "USELESS" is to strong of a term, broken fits better, and all of your post further my argument. Every post states that they use EJ as a gap closer....... As far a EJ is concerned, this is the farthest thing from what it was designed for. A movement designed to get away from danger, reduce agro and remove you from the fight is consistently, and primarily being used to jump into the fight and gain agro quicker....

---

I don't know any DRG that uses EJ to "jump into the fight and gain aggro quicker".. Read again what others have said. It's used primarily to escape AoE or re-position for an add or other mechanic. It sounds like you just want another ability to cause damage instead of give some utility (DRG already has piss for utility so you want to neuter it further? Lol)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Heavy Thrust to 20%, Phlebotomize cost reduced to 70 TP (original: freaking 90 TP), Jump cooldown reduced to 30s, Power Surge appliable to Dragonfire Dive, Feint being given a new purpose and trait, Elusive Jump cooldown reduced to 2m or less. Just a couple of things I wouldn't mind.

---

They really need to re-consider DRG TP cost overall I think, and bard while they're at it. Traited Invigorate does not really make up for the difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

They really need to re-consider DRG TP cost overall I think, and bard while they're at it. Traited Invigorate does not really make up for the difference.

---

Eh, DRG's better off than BRD/MNK in the TP department so it's a non-issue (you'll get Army's before you're dry). Any buff to TP management would put DRG on the level of self-sustaining with any breaks in most fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

Heavy Thrust to 20%, Phlebotomize cost reduced to 70 TP (original: freaking 90 TP), Jump cooldown reduced to 30s, Power Surge appliable to Dragonfire Dive, Feint being given a new purpose and trait, Elusive Jump cooldown reduced to 2m or less. Just a couple of things I wouldn't mind.

---

I like this, and instead of needing positionals, it should be a potency / crit bonus for landing positionals as Monks have.

I too agree that Elusive Jump has it's uses, it's great when you are neck deep in some big AoE and wouldn't have the time to run out of it, but it's also nice as a gap closer.

For instance, in Turn 9, when Nael jumps off before the beam and lands somewhere behind you, Elusive Jump is super useful to quickly get to her and sneak in a Impulse Drive > dodge AoE > getting back in and using Disembowel > Leg Sweep > Chaos Thrust.

Doesn't have that pesky animation lock either. I would vote for shorter CD though.

I wish they would remove the jumps animation lock entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jollyy5

I too agree that Elusive Jump has it's uses, it's great when you are neck deep in some big AoE and wouldn't have the time to run out of it, but it's also nice as a gap closer.

For instance, in Turn 9, when Nael jumps off before the beam and lands somewhere behind you, Elusive Jump is super useful to quickly get to her and sneak in a Impulse Drive > dodge AoE > getting back in and using Disembowel > Leg Sweep > Chaos Thrust.

Doesn't have that pesky animation lock either. I would vote for shorter CD though.

---

*high fives* slightly better is holding Spineshatter then instantly following her with your jump as she jumps. Fun as hell and u can get that same attack in, dodge the aoe, get 2 more attacks off on her, then Elusive Jump back to her as she lands on the tanks head =)

Afterwards, laught it up to your groups MNK about how he dipped below 400 xD

EJ from arbiter right to the fackin chaotic strike stack position. BOOM. A HOLE IN ONE!

Feels satisfying ^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by siverstorm

All that being said if they changed elusive to work like Shukuchi I would be so happy.

---

I would outright hate that, tbh. The biggest advantage for me is that it requires no second click. Just run, jump, spin the camera, EJ the rest of the way.

For those that hate spinning their cameras though, it wouldn't be too bad if the /camerareverse function were able to be put into a EJ macro, as to basically make it forward by default (or as one of two options on your bar, original and macro'ed boom-forward-leap).

As for buff ideas... (my few cents... in some strange sort of currency)
- Keen Flurry (1.0 style) as a free combo move w/o combo setup per 30 seconds (60 or 90 xclass) - an extra nuke or long-DoT every half-min.
- OR Keen Flurry as a short speed buff, much larger advantage for DRG than for other classes; enough to fit another Thrust combo into a 30s window if paired with Fey Light and some Skill Speed; aids perfect DoT upkeep despite long-Mudra use for Nin and helps with rush a single rush rotation per minute for Monk; fits in an extra Heavy Shot for Bard -- plateaued dps increase, a bit less important than IR to most)
- Give Heavy Thrust an attack speed component (worth about .15 off the GCD, a little less than half of the Mnk/Nin bonus), partly to support Keen Flurry??
- Change Power Surge to something more than just a Jump buff... 40-second CD. Have it grant AP based on damage dealt over the next 4 seconds which lasts for 75 seconds. Using the ability with Power Surge's AP buff already up will consume the long-term buff but will double its effects over the next 4 seconds. If used ideally, will gradually increase damage dealt (de-exponentially) over the fight. I.e. first burst, roughly 5% more AP from Life-Full-Jump-Phle or whatnot under BFB. Next, without BFB but with bonus AP, about the same. Bonus AP + BFB, further increase. So on and so forth. [If possible, Chaos Thrust probably ought to continue trickling in dmg-to-AP returns over its duration if dealt during the 4 seconds, making it a viable but not necessarily best choice]
- Increase Jump potency to 220. If Power Surge gets changed as above, make it a variable cooldown, increasing damage for another 20 seconds after refresh to a maximum of 330 potency (50% at 1 min, as per Power Surge use).
- Increased critical strike bonus on certain moves??? E.g. Disembowel and Chaos Thrust direct damage? Or maybe tie this into Disembowel, perhaps effecting DRGs only? Bigger LS-FT crits.
- Invulnerable to (auto-dodge) cleaves and ground effects while mid-jump/dive. Can change landing location of Jump about the origin while in flight. Becomes an advantage, rather than disadvantage, of the DRG arsenal.

Edit: ?? Can advance one combo-move further, use a combo move of equal combo position without breaking current combo, or a combo move of one greater position from another combo, after any GCD critical strike. (Heavy/Phlebotomize-->Disembowel; True-->Full; Disembowel-->Vorpal-->Chaos Thrust; Disembowel-->Full Thrust) <Limitations mean to normalize proc rates to a predicable outcome within, say, 15 or at maximum 30 seconds.>


The above Power Surge change is a pretty weak attempt to add some ramping dps to DRG. I'd still like to see more opportunism in its regular rotations, something that gives it some rotational risk rather than solely carrying the fear of a single misclick in going about an absolute rotation. I'd like to involve procs as well, but I don't like the idea of randomness affecting CD-usage (only between CDs instead, all things shorter than 30-seconds). Being able to consume lingering Chaos Thrust duration for burst or having reason to use Disembowel without Chaos would be nice, for instance, or having each combo string (Drive/Chaos vs. Thrust/Full) being able to affect each other or cross under certain circumstances.

WHAT? There are LOTS of times where I needed to use EJ to get the hell out of stick situation. E.g. The Adjudicator boss battle when he spawns the AoE Sands attack. There have been times where he marked me with the sand sphere and I EJed the hell away from my group and Spine shattered right back to the boss. I'm sorry I understand that you believe it's your opinion but the fact is there are a multitude of situation that EJ can be USED PROPERLY (Titan Ex when I'm marked with the granite goal, Garuda Ex, Labyrinth Phelngeton boss or something, when he starts to charge his astral flare). Even if there weren't these examples to show that EJ can be useful in normal situation why should the way an ability be designed for limit it's potential? It doesn't matter if I've only been playing for 2 months. Its not about how an ability is supposed to be used, its more of how you can use it to do your job better. I'd rather dodge and live to deal out DPS than die. Cause a DEAD DPS is no DPS.

Also about the SpineShatterDive mechanic. Why would you want to LIMIT the amount of damage you do. You need that Heavy Thrust to deal out more damage. The range for Piercing Talon is the same for a Spineshatter so you can just deal damage that way. It costs alot because you're not really meant to deal damage from afar. Whereas EJ doesn't punish you for using it in any way (other than faling off the Arena in Titan Ex).

.

DoTs should be improved drastically. I mean cmon, the damage per second is pathetic it should be at least 100 per 2 seconds even if it means the DoT duration is nerfed. For Dragoons there should be some I frames for the normal jump if they plan to keep the animation lock, that way if we are skilled enough we can be rewarded with avoiding powerful AoEs and dealing damage at the same time. If they really wanna buff up Dragoons they can do it without increasing any base stats for Strength, Determination aka Damage dealt they should revamp the gameplay.

I also think they should buff the recast timers to less than a second, therefore we can just pump out more damage (DPS) at the cost of TP (which they should nerf). Obviously that would be too broken, but the way to balance that would be to negate any damage that could hurt an enemy after cancelling. For example I go into True Thrust> Voral (2 hit) and cancel the 2nd hit early with Life Surge into Full thrust. In that example a Life Surge cancel on Vorpal thrust was mis executed which results in a loss of damage. While this is a small thing, over time if the DRG isn't careful they will lose more DPS. With this approach I believe a new layer of gameplay can be enjoyed by DRGs. Our positioning isn't as mentally demanding as Monks from the people I've played with. So I believe the gameplay skill cap for DRGs should rise along with the ability to deal even MORE damage. Albeit a fair trade. What do you all think?

After all I'm kind of a Noob.