Please do not destroy Mastercraft Demimateria like you did with FCIII.

The title speaks for itself. Fieldcraft 3 was once very expensive and certainly more valuable than most grade 3 materia. The demand kept up with the supply for quite some time. However patches following 2.3 introduced easier methods of obtaining FC3, each easier than the previous.



2.35: Thick-rimmed glasses(GSM). ilvl 70, main mat is 2 FC2.

This really wasn't THAT bad since the best way to get FC3 before this was really Artisan Spectacles and everyone knows how annoying those can be.


2.4: Wedding items(LTW/WVR). ilvl 70, sold by vendors.

This is a joke. I didn't even bother getting my LTW/WVR desynthesis up and battling the countless undercutters of FC3(as if it was bad enough before 2.4!). I mean, really.. bought from vendors!?@ I think this was too far.




After 2.4 I answererd my simple question of "why" with the obvious answer. It seems to me that SE just prefers to make obtaining rare items easier instead of watching people thrive on new content and actually get enjoyment out of the stupid and flat RNG that is desynthesis. I think they could have stopped with the GSM glasses in 2.35 and waited for more people to catch on.






So my plea is do not ruin Mastercraft Demimateria like you did with FC3. You put these rare items exclusively in Desynthesis so please don't ruin part of the reason some of us actually do the agonizing RNG based content.

Don't you think it's a little idiotic that GSM have such a huge advantage over mastercraft demimateria compared to other classes?

It's a bit absurd the amount of effort other desynth classes have to go through to acquire these while GSM gets to just spam artisan specs.

Unless I'm missing something the balanced of work required to level and rewards for leveling different desynth classes is horribly off.

As a side note, I'm BSM, ARM and ALC for desynth. So yea, no love from SE for these classes.

Thick-Rim Glasses were never the best way to get FC3s.

But it is okay for people to bot out relish to get ahead of every other crafter?

1) Mastercraft should be obtainable from every crafter through at least one desynth
2) Botters and cheaters need to be banned already, i see people crafting 24/7 without every stopping and dumping them into the mb.

Just throwing this out there unless you choose CUL/ALC/LTW for your desynths you can get mastercrafts

Armorer->Frying pans
Goldsmith->Glasses/Weaver Needle
Blacksmith->Hammers/Alchemy Mainhand/Miner Pickaxe/Bot Axe
Weaver->Foragers Hat
Culinarian-None but gets swimsuits
Leatherwoker-None
Alchemist-None

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Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

Just throwing this out there unless you choose CUL/ALC/LTW for your desynths you can get mastercrafts

Armorer->Frying pans
Goldsmith->Glasses/Weaver Needle
Blacksmith->Hammers/Alchemy Mainhand/Miner Pickaxe/Bot Axe
Weaver->Foragers Hat
Culinarian-None but gets swimsuits
Leatherwoker-None
Alchemist-None

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Has more to do with the ease with which GSM obtains them relative to other crafts. BSM/ARM need to make 50 for one attempt at a possible 3 vs the GSM which get 5 attempts at a possible 1. Doesn't take a statistician to see that GSM is less susceptible to RNG than other classes unless there is an innately higher MCD drop chance on the main hand tools.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll say that BSM has a nice advantage with Forager tools and Artisan tools as an option, but still BSM is a hell of a lot more time consuming and costly to level than GSM.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

Has more to do with the ease with which GSM obtains them relative to other crafts. BSM/ARM need to make 50 for one attempt at a possible 3 vs the GSM which get 5 attempts at a possible 1. Doesn't take a statistician to see that GSM is less susceptible to RNG than other classes unless there is an innately higher MCD drop chance on the main hand tools.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll say that BSM has a nice advantage with Forager tools and Artisan tools as an option, but still BSM is a hell of a lot more time consuming and costly to level than GSM.

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Yes GSM has an easier chance to get MC, this was simply for the people saying they dont have anyway to get them. But with 2.4 desynths like AMR and BSM LTW WVR are now able to get the allagan mats where GSM cannot, so it kinda evens it out IMO. Also BSM is only more trouble due to the price of coke/darksteel which is all player driven, if darksteel was the same price as rosegold it would be the same to level. Yes dungeon drops BSM doesnt get much to desynth but i dont know many ppl that spammed dungeons to lvl up GSM or any other desynth either. Also with the BSM doing the foragers tools may take longer you also have to realize you dont have the cost of shards or other mats like you do in crafting to get glasses. Im not disagreeing with any1 or anything just saying how it is :) so i dont mean any disrespect or anything with what i said ^^

Also as far as main hand yielding MC i dont know the % if anybody has info on this i would like to know also. I know glasses range from 11.2-18.6%. Would be interested in seeing other people result of main hands if any is out there.

Please DO "destroy" Mastercraft Demimateria. That stuff is a pain to get, I'd welcome a change.

Considering only AFK/botters are the only ones who can get mastercraft demimateria in decent supply, it needs to be destroyed. Morzy you're on the same server and you know the people who bot abuse mastercraft market and were doing the very same thing with Fieldcraft III when it was expensive. They all need to be crushed and earn their money doing honest things instead of preying on the stupidity of gilbuyers.

I agree botters need to be banned and there are dozens of them that have been active for months, despite reports.

But that does not mean everything should be made worthless/easy to aquire.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

I agree botters need to be banned and there are dozens of them that have been active for months, despite reports.

But that does not mean everything should be made worthless/easy to aquire.

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Thank you for this, alot of people have worked very hard to get their mastercrafts and supras. This doesnt make them botters like people think. So thank you for this statement ^^

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Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

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I understand what you are saying. Just to clarify, what I'm trying to get at is that the desynth classes are horribly off balance. I think they were going for perfect imbalance with how ALC and BSM had a strong foot hold in primal demimateria (with ALC having a monopoly on Crag demis) and GSM having a strong mastercraft market. The problem is that at his point the Primal materia isn't worth anything because the rare drops (Ifrit Horn, Crag heart etc.) are the major gate for crafting those weapons and those materia are more or less useless outside of making the weapons. MCDs on the other hand are part of crafter progression and the items that drop them are a tedious task to acquire if you get all the mats on your own (particular the shards).

My point is that there should be an attainable way for people to get the demimateria regardless of desynth choice. In theory, you could've picked LTW, ALC, and CUL and been SOL in getting mastercrafts, while the guy that went GSM can effectively gear all his crafts with Supras with ease.

I didn't pick GSM because I figured everyone was going that and I wanted to bring something else to the table and would never have imagined they'd have the balance of these classes so skewed.

A system entirely based on random drops from desynth to be able to reach the next crafting gating is not particularly good design in the first place. Coupled with the innate imbalance with the desynth classes and how it favoures GSM above all else for mastercraft, it doesnt make for a fair or even playing field for the crafting classes. The entire notion of "i went through all the rnd grind to get mine, so should everyone else" is not a powerful or persuasive argument. This game has followed a trend where if you put the time and effort into something you get there before others, not in exclusion to others. Mastercraft demi will most likely get more sources in the future. Plus, there are many many many other gates to get through to become a 4 star crafter (shock horror, you even have to be a competant crafter this time to do 4 star synths!), that easing the drop rate/increasing the sources of master demis would have an unknown impact on end game crafting.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

The entire notion of "i went through all the rnd grind to get mine, so should everyone else" is not a powerful or persuasive argument. This game has followed a trend where if you put the time and effort into something you get there before others, not in exclusion to others.

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Bingo. First to beat end game content, currently FCoB, gets bragging rights. First to hit end game crafting has the market to make loads of gil.

They will add in new sources in 2.45, 2.5 at the latest so that everyone can get caught up before the expansion. When 3.0 comes out it won't matter if you hit that point first week of 2.4 or last week before 3.0

What do you have to say to people that have broken 30+ Forager's Dolabra's / Artisan's tools, and have only ever received 1 Mastercraft Demimateria?

I have now been crafting the 4* Wootz Plate gear from ARM, and need my retainers wares to turn over so I can list them for sale on the MB. I've been doing this, without Supra's, 1) Because they aren't necessary, and 2) Because the cost is absurd. The only people who seem to be getting Mastercraft Dmei's are GSM's, b/c you can get the glasses much cheaper than you can get any of the other Desynth items.

Once I sell a full set of HQ Wootz Armor, I have every intention of turning around and buying my Mastercraft's for my Supra I think. Even though I don't need them.

When Jade recommended GSM for Desynth, I thought to myself "It might be easier, but there's no WAY SE Skewed this so terribly" . . . . I was wrong.

Anyway, I feel as though GSM Desynth has been spoiled long enough. I wouldn't agree with making it easier, but find some way to make it just as easy on other desynth classes, OR, for the love of Hydalyn, give us something better than Darksteel Nuggets on Foragers Dolabra's. (I've only ever seen 2 Mastercraft Demimateria, once, from my first Foragers Dolabra desynth. Bought my third for my 3rd piece of Artisan's equipment) - and I've spent weeks focusing on Gathering and crafting to make trade ins for Artisan tools and Dolabra's, and haven't been able to get another one. (Hence, now that I can 4* my ARM stuff, and make 5x Profit . . . I'll do that and buy my Mastercraft from the fortunate GSM Desynth's)

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Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

Thank you for this, alot of people have worked very hard to get their mastercrafts and supras. This doesnt make them botters like people think. So thank you for this statement ^^

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There sure are some easily offended people on here ^_-

I have nothing against legit players who craft like crazy, however there are *many* people bot crafting, using a mouse click macro or whatever.

There are botters selling materia, demimateria, shards etc etc.

The cheats need to be investigated and banned.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

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I understand that people want balance from their desynth choices. If everyone has the same ease to get MCDs as GSM desynth does, then none of the desynths should have a niche at all if everyone wants them to be equal. Its like culinarians wanting MCD's but wanting to keep swimsuits also. I agree with you 100% they are off balance, but if you balance them all equal then whats the point of even having more than 1?

*edit, Sounds really aggressive i dont mean it to sound that way

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

There sure are some easily offended people on here ^_-

I have nothing against legit players who craft like crazy, however there are *many* people bot crafting, using a mouse click macro or whatever.

There are botters selling materia, demimateria, shards etc etc.

The cheats need to be investigated and banned.

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I agree but when people lump together legit players and bots into one like earlier in the thread its just ignorant.

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Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

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It'd be what type of equip you'd desyn. I'd rather then be balanced to have little uniqueness than to be unbalanced to this degree. Keep in mind that MC is far from the only demimateria you can obtain; As it stands right now, GSM is arguably the best for FCI, FCII, BCI, BCII, BCIII, as well as inferno, vortex and crag demimateria. It doesn't help that there's just so many GSM desynable items compared to everything all, theres no reason to not pick up GSM as one of your 3 desyns.

I mean with your point that culinarian has swimsuits, that's their unique desyn. What does Alchemy have? They can't desyn anything for MC, they have little options for FC, and they used to be the only way to get crags (now GSM stole that from them.) None of the crafts comes close to being as efficient (cost and time wise) to GSM for obtaining any of those, with the exception of FCIII from LTW and WVR, but that's only because they;re vendor items at this point.

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Originally Posted by Lebenoshl

Thick-Rim Glasses were never the best way to get FC3s.

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Well that was just my opinion through my experience. Also the way i did it was very low in risk, as i only needed to get ONE fc3 to even return profit, with those glasses.

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Originally Posted by Songi

Considering only AFK/botters are the only ones who can get mastercraft demimateria in decent supply, it needs to be destroyed. Morzy you're on the same server and you know the people who bot abuse mastercraft market and were doing the very same thing with Fieldcraft III when it was expensive. They all need to be crushed and earn their money doing honest things instead of preying on the stupidity of gilbuyers.

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I do understand. I just hate change that specifically targets bots because i feel it affects players like us even more because the bots will always have something to fall back on.

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Originally Posted by Mishini_Dracoto

What do you have to say to people that have broken 30+ Forager's Dolabra's / Artisan's tools, and have only ever received 1 Mastercraft Demimateria?

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I say I'm right there with you. I started desynthing the foragers pickaxe since 2.3(it became easier with supra) and must have broke... i dont even know. And ive gotten around 9 mastercraft. So ya, it sucks but it costs us gatherers nothing.

It shouldn't affect us much. Grinding out Mastercraft Demimateria for profit is flawed in itself on our server considering how much of a dead-end the 4 star market is on Lamia. Mastercraft sellers are only fortunate that 95% of the crafters on our server are bored/dumb/don't care that they're losing millions by reaching 4 star level.

If anything needs to become a lot more abundant are materia acquisition methods. Even the endgame raiders on Lamia aren't touching 4 star gear for progression thanks to Savage Aim/Might IV staying at 900k+ and Heaven's Eye IV peaking out at 600k this month. There's just no reason to for materia to be in such low supply but because of spiritbonding being a huge nuisance to get on Low population servers prices are going to stay out of control until SE decides to come up with a fix.

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Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

I understand that people want balance from their desynth choices. If everyone has the same ease to get MCDs as GSM desynth does, then none of the desynths should have a niche at all if everyone wants them to be equal. Its like culinarians wanting MCD's but wanting to keep swimsuits also. I agree with you 100% they are off balance, but if you balance them all equal then whats the point of even having more than 1?

*edit, Sounds really aggressive i dont mean it to sound that way

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Perhaps this would've been worse, but I'd have liked it if Mastercraft Demimateria were class specific (ex: Mastercraft Demimateria (Goldsmith) can only get you a GSM Supra etc.) based on the repair/desynth class of the item. That way you'd have more diversity than everyone going GSM for one of their 3 desynths just so they can progress, but more importantly so you GSM (or equivalent classes) can't just control the market. The problem with the niche argument is that Crag Demis are incredibly niche and purely for glamours while MCDs are required for all Supras. Even at their peak primal demis never went for more than 300k on my server while MCDs have never gone for less than 1 mil.

I think it will become more abundant but with how the items are aquired to then desynth for mastercraft..t makes it tricky. I think right now the mastercraft is validated by the fact that its the key to endgame gathering and crafter(to a degree).

I do think the acquisition of the grade 4 materia does need to be balanced because it is NOT encouraging to casuals wishing to get novus.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

Perhaps this would've been worse, but I'd have liked it if Mastercraft Demimateria were class specific (ex: Mastercraft Demimateria (Goldsmith) can only get you a GSM Supra etc.) based on the repair/desynth class of the item. That way you'd have more diversity than everyone going GSM for one of their 3 desynths just so they can progress, but more importantly so you GSM (or equivalent classes) can't just control the market. The problem with the niche argument is that Crag Demis are incredibly niche and purely for glamours while MCDs are required for all Supras. Even at their peak primal demis never went for more than 300k on my server while MCDs have never gone for less than 1 mil.

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Lol i saw mog demi sell for 2m recently.. i laughed so hard.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

I think it will become more abundant but with how the items are aquired to then desynth for mastercraft..t makes it tricky. I think right now the mastercraft is validated by the fact that its the key to endgame gathering and crafter(to a degree).

I do think the acquisition of the grade 4 materia does need to be balanced because it is NOT encouraging to casuals wishing to get novus.

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The way materia is handled is a joke. Gathering/Crafting isn't as bad because all Grade 4s are more or less useful, or will because useful as caps increase. However, for combat classes the majority of materia stats are worthless meaning that the inevitable bad luck will make you feel like you wasted hours spirit bonding.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

Lol i saw mog demi sell for 2m recently.. i laughed so hard.

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At one point the Mog Demis did go for over 1m, but that has since plummeted. I think Crag Demis go for about 20k right now. Perhaps if the Crag Heart (and similar items) were a possible drop from the primal weapons these items would be more practical to make, but as of right now the drop rate is pretty low and not many groups outside of large FCs will farm primals for these.

Please do make mastercraft easier to obtain

Mastercraft Demimateria are 1 million gil on Goblin. That's 3 million gil per supra. Plus the cost of the 10 Fieldcraft 3s on top of that. That's quite a lot of money to buy my new tools.

But quite honestly, it's not about the cost. It's about the fact that it takes a disgustingly long time to grind them. It's blatant, shameless gameplay padding. It's boring, tedious and a huge waste of time, and it makes crafting less fun.

It does take a long time.. But thats the content that is desynthesis. Not many enjoy it which is why so many buy instead of dealing with RNG.

I think they will make the content easier. They could cut the process it takes to get foragers and artisan gear.

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Originally Posted by Morzy

It does take a long time.. But thats the content that is desynthesis. Not many enjoy it which is why so many buy instead of dealing with RNG.

I think they will make the content easier. They could cut the process it takes to get foragers and artisan gear.

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A good start would be to quit releasing slot machine progression. It's a lazy way of slowing down progression through low drops rates that the player is powerless against.

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Originally Posted by Sibyll

A good start would be to quit releasing slot machine progression. It's a lazy way of slowing down progression through low drops rates that the player is powerless against.

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RNG is bad but time-gated progression is even worse. A player can do absolutely nothing to beat a lockout, at least with RNG you can toss gil at it until something changes. Ehcatl Sealant was the absolute worst thing to happen to crafting even worse than desynthesis-gated 4 star materials.

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Originally Posted by Songi

RNG is bad but time-gated progression is even worse. A player can do absolutely nothing to beat a lockout, at least with RNG you can toss gil at it until something changes. Ehcatl Sealant was the absolute worst thing to happen to crafting even worse than desynthesis-gated 4 star materials.

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Honestly I'd rather have timed-gated than RNG. With time-gated (Tomes) at least I know when I'll get my next upgrade. I killed T9 30 times before my weapons dropped and I know people that got server first that never saw their weapon drop once.

If it weren't an all or nothing mechanic it wouldn't be so bad. I'd be less upset about failing 10 75% desynths in a row if each failure increased my desynth a little bit and allowed me to progress. I'd be a little less upset about getting screwed on mastercraft demis if there was an alternative main hand I could get, or an alternative way of getting the Supra.

@OP Lets be honest really, are you upset because your not making enough money off of FCIII and afraid it will happen with MC? Or is it really because you are upset they are making it easier now. Crafting grind can be a bit tedious as is, I welcome the fact that FCIII are easier to obtain now.

Im still asking myself with all of the work to meld all my gear, deal with the awful RNG, farm Desynth mats so forth and so forth, all this for what? So SE making it easier, i welcome it because I do not see any great rewards with endgame crafting.

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

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Maybe it's just my server is small, but there just isn't a market for gear. I mean most of the sales are from people leveling up crafting (so a pyramid scheme) and from the small percentage of people that get crafted gear for overmelds for end-game content. That's it. When crafted battle gear is designed to be inferior to raid gear while at the same time requiring a lot of time investment to craft and a massive gold sink just to get it to be on par with tome gear then you have a bit of a problem.

Even if they made the battle gear have it's own progression, like having alternative stats to tome gear and requiring the same coil drops to upgrade the items level, then it might be a more viable option. As it is right now the only people that can afford to wear crafted, pentamelded gear are RMTers, crafters, or people in massive FCs that are given the gear for free, which once again is the minority of the player base.

Yup, small servers got wrecked by the patch. No one on my server really cares to invest in 4 star gear except for glamour. There's maybe a handful of players total who will get an odd piece of 110 crafted to compliment their token gear or coil drops. Other than that, there's really no reason for anyone to have access to 4 star gear (on my server) except to throw money away. Granted, I have 4 sets of i110 crafted on my character but that's because I'm bored and have nothing to spend gil on. Not many have it like me and most would rather sit on their gil instead of spending it on armor or materia that will only last a month or so.

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Originally Posted by Lemuel81

@OP Lets be honest really, are you upset because your not making enough money off of FCIII and afraid it will happen with MC? Or is it really because you are upset they are making it easier now. Crafting grind can be a bit tedious as is, I welcome the fact that FCIII are easier to obtain now.

Im still asking myself with all of the work to meld all my gear, deal with the awful RNG, farm Desynth mats so forth and so forth, all this for what? So SE making it easier, i welcome it because I do not see any great rewards with endgame crafting.

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No, I'm not worried or upset about my gil or lack thereof. I just don't agree with the method SE are using to make content easier.

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Originally Posted by Songi

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Unfortunately it took me until my 3rd Artisan Off-hand before I realized that I have really no reason to go 4 star. Culinary I could see being useful, and possibly Alchemist. The rest there just isn't much of a market for. It'll probably be worth it for when the next tier of SBing is available to craft my own i110 stuff, but right now it's just too expensive and impractical and the barrier to entry is far too high.

I hate the RNG crapfest they've created that surrounds crafting. If they wanted to they could easily fix a lot of problems with very little effort: copy the PVE raid loot method for crafters. Create an NPC that sells a variety of rare items, but the player can only purchase 1 item, once per week (the raid weekly lockout effectively), set the prices to double the mount prices from beast quest vendors and players can be guaranteed an item such as a Mastercraft Demimateria for a reasonable price, that doesn't rely upon RNGsus. This has the added effect of permanently removing gil from the economy, reducing the demand on the MB (and thus depriving bots/gil sellers a source of income) and reducing the temptation for players to buy gil in the first place. All the while, not making it "too easy" to obtain and crashing the market as is what happened with FC3. In addition, players that are not crafters, can have something they can buy & sell on to crafters, so they too, are less tempted to RMT