Vote Dismiss from frontlines needs to be changed.

I played a lot of frontlines when it came out and had a ton of fun getting my mount and rank 40, then I took a long break until this patch raised the rank again. Now every match I'm in I get yelled at and kicked if I don't want to mindlessly zerg a flag with my party. One game I loaded in and our party was 6 bards a healer and me they still wanted to go to markets and fight for that point when it's really obvious that if nobody changes class there is no way we can win that fight. Instead of listening and changing class they just yelled at me for trying to backcap enemy outposts. I have plenty of other instances of things like this happening but the main point is:

I shouldn't have to justify my own strategy to the 7 other people in the party in order to play the game.

If they're not going to swap class from 6 bard lol party then why do they get to pretend like they are actually trying to win and think they can kick people etc. Really frustrating.

If most of the party is kicking you then it's a majority decision. Front lines is a team game so yes you should work as a team and establish your own plan with the team. You obviously see that you are right in these situations and I have no opinion to back you up but if it's happening constantly and it is a majority vote to kick you, maybe you should think of why that's happening

Yeah that's exactly the attitude I'm talking about. Who cares if the majority wants to kick someone? The other problem is most people don't even seem to think about the vote they just pass and forget because they don't care at all. It's insane to waste an hour of my time waiting in queue then be forced to play subpar strategies just because a bunch of morons think the right way to win is sending 24 bards to manors. The people voting don't even care if they win or not they just want to blame someone and feel better about themselves. I could whine and complain and try to kick them for playing useless bard class in frontlines and doing less than 20k dmg and no kills or flags taken the whole fight but all i want is to be able to actually try to win without getting vote kicked. I've already accepted that everyone on my team is going to be a moron, why can't i play the game still.

Because you sound like a very pleasant person to have as a team mate..

6 bards, a healer and whatever can take markets... keh, keh, kehehehHAHHAHA.

The lone wolf strategy can work to an extent, but frontline is first and foremost a team game. The party kicking you for going at it alone though... I'm not agreeing with that; that seems a bit extreme. Maybe you should have a GM look into it. Are you sure you didn't say anything rude that normally WOULD get you kicked? And what do you propose vote kick be changed to?

I'm not gonna lie to you man, I haven't played with you but just from your response I see how you view your team mates. If your calling them dumb idiot morons who need to l2p, go pro or go home, I would kick you too. The bottom line is this, and I imagine it would be similar to others aswell, I'm not playing a game to have someone tell me I suck and yell at me the whole time, that's not fun for me. Even if I lose I'm not trying to have a bad time.

I generally don't talk at all. Since the first time I get kicked, i respond nicely whenever someone directly questions what I'm doing but otherwise don't talk. One time I got kicked and rejoined in progress and told them they were all idiots but that's the only time I said anything rude. It's not like this happens all the time, maybe 1 in 5 games we are losing? I think it should be either required 7 vote to kick, no vote dismiss in frontlines, or some sort of easier way to counter report the person who vote dismiss you. As of now you can't even see a name or anything so asking a gm is annoying. It also wouldn't be nearly as annoying if the queue time wasn't so long.

@ Ivera I don't talk to my team unless they directly ask what I'm doing and I don't insult them. Thinking your whole team is a moron isn't something that should get you kicked especially if you don't say anything about it. I definitely don't yell at my team, I'm saying they yell at me and then kick me for not following moronic strategies with 0% chance of winning.

PvP is srs bsns

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Originally Posted by Brianmj

The lone wolf strategy can work to an extent, but frontline is first and foremost a team game. The party kicking you for going at it alone though...

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Someone has to watch the flags and if every single one of your team mates is zerging past to get kills, who is looking after the flag from ninja-cappers?

look I didn't make this topic to discuss what the best strategy in frontlines is or complain about how bad my team mates are, I just want to play the game and try to win without getting kicked so fix it thanks.

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Originally Posted by asharladon

@ Ivera I don't talk to my team unless they directly ask what I'm doing and I don't insult them. Thinking your whole team is a moron isn't something that should get you kicked especially if you don't say anything about it. I definitely don't yell at my team, I'm saying they yell at me and then kick me for not following moronic strategies with 0% chance of winning.

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Ok, like I said I'm only speaking from what I see here, not trying to point fingers.
If your not being rude to them perhaps it's that you aren't speaking to them that's getting you the kick. Like many have said it's a team game and at least establishing your plan before executing could result in a more favorable outcome. Maybe they just want someone to provide a different plan because no one is stepping up or the only ones who are are giving the plan you don't like.


Without being there it's hard to say why they would kick you if you aren't being rude or anything like. How do you propose the vote kick feature be fixed or altered?
I definetly don't want the feature removed, I've had plenty of games where someone sits at the spawn because they don't think we can win so they don't participate. And once even where I was unable to heal a guy in time, he died, and after we won the battle I raised but he refused to get up because he was mad that we couldn't save him. He layed there for the rest of the match not contributing and at the time we couldn't kick due to always being in combat. It definetly has it's uses more often then not in my opinion

yes I agree it's important to be able to kick people who afk or actively and blatantly grief the team. Maybe have it so you can't kick someone who has done a certain amount of damage or healing or captured a certain number of points in the last few minutes.

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Originally Posted by asharladon

try to win without getting kicked so fix it thanks.

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There is nothing to fix. According to the Reps on here that replied to a scenario similar to yours, if you are the minority in the group and you do not follow the strategy of the majority in said group, they have every right to kick you for not following them, w/o consequence. It's called difference in play-style and it is a legitimate reason to kick, the GM's consider it a "player dispute" and want the players themselves to work it out w/o them interfering.

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Greetings!

However, there is one topic in this thread that seems to be an underlying point of contention: reasons for dismissal that are not strictly "AFK", "Offline", "Harassment", or "Cheating". I would like to address this.

The response from the GM touched on this, although it was missed due to the focus on the first part of that sentence. The reasons for dismissal are not all encompassing, which means that there may be valid reasons for dismissal outside of those four examples. Good examples of this that have been provided in this thread are the refusal to fulfill one's job function. Because of this, it is possible that the reasons provided for dismissal may be found to be accurate if they are used against you. As well, the feelings one may have about the reasons may differ from the feelings of those who voted to dismiss. For example, cultural differences in language may have one person using language they find fairly benign while another person takes great offense to it.

Because of these subjective discrepancies, the final decision on if a violation of the use of the vote dismiss feature is left to a GM after an investigation. In general, abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered to be a grief tactics violation, which falls under section 3.2 in the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement. However, it is only after a GM investigation that it can be determined to be a violation of the rules. If you feel that the vote dismiss feature has been abused, please do report it to the GMs through the Help Desk in game, and we will investigate.

LGM Enkrateia

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"Although we understand the impact that is caused after being removed from a duty finder group, please be aware that Game Masters will be unable to take action if a group member has been removed due to a player dispute, or if their game style differs (i.e. skipping in-game cutscenes, disagreement on using specific boss encounter tactics etc).
To avoid such incidents in the future, we would advise to speak with either the group leader or fellow party members when joining a new group to discuss any specific party restrictions that need to be addressed (i.e. any loot priorities, allowing group members to watch cutscenes etc)."

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Communication is key in situations such as yours, learn to better communicate with your team mates please.

"I don't want to be kicked from a team oriented PvP instance when I don't want to play with my team, they are a bunch of dumb idiots morons! SE plz fix! QQ"

Sorry, what?

@Yamimarik the examples used to discuss player dispute specifically say to talk to a group leader or party members when joining a new group, but this isn't even possible with frontlines queue. You can't talk to a group leader or party members when joining a new group if you join through an hour long DF queue. Every member should be trying their best to win and if the path to victory that I see is different from my team mates why should I have to follow them just because they are in the majority?

If I go into frontlines as blackmage, and my whole team says "we have decided our strategy is for blackmages to not cast any fire spells so if you cast any fire spells we will kick you" you're telling me I have to respect that opinion and that sounds right to all of you and that's the policy we should be okay with SE having.

I don't care if I'm going to wait in 30 min DF queue to be placed on a team of morons but what's the point of having a game mode where I'm not even allowed to try to win.

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Originally Posted by asharladon

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You have plenty of time once you enter the actual instance to discuss a solid strategy and talk with the other members of your group before the game begins.

That is grasping really hard at your own interpretations, obviously that would fall under griefing if someone were to tell you not to use an actual ability from the job you're playing, and that would most likely be something reportable if they were to kick you if you used "Fire" in your example.

You are allowed to try and win, but if you lack communications skills, and the team thinks you're just ignoring them or their strategies by doing what ever you want w/o even speaking with them prior, more than likely you're gonna have a bad time and might just end up getting kicked. Communication with others isn't hard, this is by the way, an MMORPG, where you play with multiple people towards one common goal.

Okay so let me give you an example. I load into a game with my friend on team A. I'm playing ninja they are scholar and our party is 6 bards. Before the match starts my friend says "I'm not going to markets so if you want a healer there one of you has to switch, we are going to flame outpost instead." Nobody changes class. The game starts and we go to outpost and take it and the other 6 bards go to market and die and vote dismiss me. This shouldn't be a thing that is possible to happen.

I'm a smart and skilled player. Good design wouldn't allow a smart and skilled player that is trying to win to be kicked from the game. This should be obvious.

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Originally Posted by asharladon

if the path to victory that I see is different from my team mates why should I have to follow them just because they are in the majority?

If I go into frontlines as blackmage, and my whole team says "we have decided our strategy is for blackmages to not cast any fire spells so if you cast any fire spells we will kick you" you're telling me I have to respect that opinion and that sounds right to all of you and that's the policy we should be okay with SE having.

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Yes.

The ONLY way around this source of frustration for you is to go with a full party of friends. Then you can coordinate a winning strategy and, hopefully, actually win. Otherwise, yes, majority rules.

Yeah sadana I realize that is currently the case and that's why I think it should be changed. I'm not just posting here to complain I want an actual change in the vote dismiss system for frontlines to happen.