What would happen if someone succeeded in summoning the Twelve?

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11-06-2014, 06:11 AM
Baithin

What would happen if someone succeeded in summoning the Twelve?

And by that I mean their full essences, not just what Louisoix did in the opening cinematic to seal Bahamut.

I would assume they'd be similar to Primals. But would they be stronger? More human? Whatever the case, the Ascians seem to think it is possible since they tried to get the Ala Mhigans to summon Rhalgr.

Do you think the story would ever go in this direction where we'd have to face any of them in a trial? I think it could be interesting.

For example, my idea for Althyk would be that he'd enable true time travel if he were ever summoned, since he is the god of time. I actually tried to organize an RP for this in which all of our characters get sent back in time to the time of the War of the Magi, or something, haha.

So, let's speculate!
11-06-2014, 06:31 AM
VargasVermillion

I believe this was briefly looked over in 1.0s story. the idea to summon the twelve was proposed but only a fraction of their power, if they summoned all 12 of them in their full forms then it would drain the world of it's aether.
11-06-2014, 09:47 AM
Enkidoh

It should also be noted that the Ascian 'version' of summoning Rhalgr would have been virtually identical to the summoning of Good King Moggle Mog - that is, it would not have been the literal god or goddess of the Twelve, but an aetheric entity masquerading as one who would then proceed to corrupt whoever summoned them in order to keep itself anchored in the corporeal realm (and thus also require a constant supply of aether).

As the storyline more and more was hinting at, it seems with a strong enough will/desire and enough crystals/aether you can summon pretty much anything into a Primal-like entity, but as the Primals and Good King Moggle Mog showed, it doesn't take an Archon to realize this is a very bad idea. ;)
11-06-2014, 11:19 AM
Kaiser-Ace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It should also be noted that the Ascian 'version' of summoning Rhalgr would have been virtually identical to the summoning of Good King Moggle Mog - that is, it would not have been the literal god or goddess of the Twelve, but an aetheric entity masquerading as one who would then proceed to corrupt whoever summoned them in order to keep itself anchored in the corporeal realm (and thus also require a constant supply of aether).

As the storyline more and more was hinting at, it seems with a strong enough will/desire and enough crystals/aether you can summon pretty much anything into a Primal-like entity, but as the Primals and Good King Moggle Mog showed, it doesn't take an Archon to realize this is a very bad idea. ;)

So if I had enough crystals, enough people that desired it, and the time to cast the Ascian summoning, then I could summon A Giant Taco the size of Ifrit and use it to brain was every one into loving tacos as much as me? O.O
11-06-2014, 02:46 PM
Saikou

I'm sorry, but you just made me remember this...

http://i.imgur.com/CsYTIXw.jpg
11-06-2014, 03:24 PM
Morningstar1337

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saikou

I'm sorry, but you just made me remember this...

http://i.imgur.com/CsYTIXw.jpg

Now I'm wondering where that came from (apart from the association of heat with Mexico)
11-06-2014, 06:54 PM
Enkidoh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

So if I had enough crystals, enough people that desired it, and the time to cast the Ascian summoning, then I could summon A Giant Taco the size of Ifrit and use it to brain was every one into loving tacos as much as me? O.O

More like, "summon a giant taco god that would brainwash everyone in earshot as 'the one true god', and immediately demand to be fed crystals and and aether."

No matter what the form they take, it will always be the same thing fundamentally, hence why Primals or aetheric entities are so dangerous.
11-07-2014, 02:17 AM
Saikou

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Now I'm wondering where that came from (apart from the association of heat with Mexico)

This came from reddit sometime during 2.0-2.2, people using ifrit as a loot pinata for their first lvl 50 weapons typing "que" instead of "queue" when talking about duty finder. Rereading that last sentence, there was at least one more Mexican cultural reference that was passed over by the guy who made this.
11-08-2014, 07:19 AM
Baithin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enkidoh

It should also be noted that the Ascian 'version' of summoning Rhalgr would have been virtually identical to the summoning of Good King Moggle Mog - that is, it would not have been the literal god or goddess of the Twelve, but an aetheric entity masquerading as one who would then proceed to corrupt whoever summoned them in order to keep itself anchored in the corporeal realm (and thus also require a constant supply of aether).

As the storyline more and more was hinting at, it seems with a strong enough will/desire and enough crystals/aether you can summon pretty much anything into a Primal-like entity, but as the Primals and Good King Moggle Mog showed, it doesn't take an Archon to realize this is a very bad idea. ;)

So... If it is not the literal god Rhalgr that would have been summoned, can't you argue that it's the same case with the Primals? That Ifrit the Primal is an aetheric entity masquerading as the god of the Amal'jaa? I know they're not explicitly defined as gods, but the Primals are worshipped as such.

If that isn't the case, then I find that kind of problematic. What makes the Twelve more legitimate as gods than the Beast Tribes' gods?

Do they follow a specific pantheon, like this?

Hydaelyn/Zodiark(?) -> the Twelve -> Beast Tribe Primals

What makes the Primals bottom of the totem pole? Or could it be that the Primals, like Good King Moggle Mog, don't actually exist?

I think I've confused myself.
11-08-2014, 12:28 PM
myahele

I'd reckon they'd be extremely powerful primals once summoned due to "man" believing in the 12 in general and each city states worshipping one specifically.

Wasn't it said that crystals are given as a form of worship to the 12? Regardless, the 4 races > beast tribe population and crystal resources.

With everything that's happened I wouldn't be too surprised if Ishgard summons Halone. They've had years to amass crystals + a whole country of believers. Perhaps the reason for the political turmoil there is due to fraction either for or against summoning Halone.
11-08-2014, 01:48 PM
Kaiser-Ace

I've held the theory for a long time that the primals are actualy the Elementalts given the physical form befitting of those that worship them. IE the Amal'ja are summoning the Elemental of Fire but it's taking the immage that the Amal'ja expect their god to take. This could possibly tie in to the Ascian statement that should we perfect the echo that we and the Ascians would "Veiw the world the same", which to me sounds as if the ycan literally see something we cant rather than just being able to see their point of view. Who know, it may turn out that the cake is a lie and the Ascians are really the good guys.
11-08-2014, 03:40 PM
Enkidoh

Except the elementals are actually completely different to Primals and other aetheric entities, in that they exist freely throughout everything in creation - yes, even rocks and water have elementals. For some reason though they've always been more potent and active within the Black Shroud, which led to the misconception that they were only found there. The 1.0 Gridanian storyline actually touches on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by version 1.0 main scenario quest 'Souls Gone Wild'

Papalymo: "That's what I've been trying to tell you. There are elementals in all sorts of things. Rocks, rivers, flowers. They are the unifying force of this entire forest."
Yda: "Sooo, an elemental is like a gigantic, super-powerful person?"
Papalymo: "Really? Are you kidding? How have you made it this far in life? They are not to be thought of as individuals of any size, you dolt. Explain to me what part you don't understand."

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by version 1.0 main scenario quest 'Souls Gone Wild'

O-App-Pesi: "Where were we...? Ah yes, of course, we were speaking of the elementals."
O-App-Pesi: "They are a part of this world, great and powerful. And they do not oft trouble themselves with the inconsequential affairs of man."
O-App-Pesi: "They do show themselves from time to time, though. When one beckoned by the wood arrives to hear their bidding, say, or should the greenwrath be wakened."
O-App-Pesi: "Those who do not believe in the elementals had best stay clear of the Twelveswood, else it would claim them."

Additionally, a random npc in 1.0's CNJ's Guild also mentioned about the elementals being found throughout Eorzea in metal:

Quote:

Originally Posted by version 1.0 npc Telent

"I've been listening to these damn trees for more summers you've seen. No one else can make sense of them, which I suppose is why they suffer me to stay. I always wanted to hear the elementals in steel and iron and bronze-metals, you know? Maybe earn myself a ride on one of them fancy Garlean airships. But nothing ever seems to work out the way we plan it."

Although ARR does retcon a few things from version 1.0, from everything that's been stated throughout ARR's story, it's clear that this idea about the elementals has still been more or less kept, even though the elementals have been shown to have become far more insular and withdrawn recently, due to the aetheric damage wrought by the Calamity. In any event, it's clear that the elementals and the Primals are two totally different kinds of entity.