Question for the Devs; will Heavensward include a new STARTER City-State?

This is an important question to me. I already know that I'm going to create a brand-new character to be a Dark Knight (I like my Miqo'te too much to change him, but want something more imposing for a Dark Knight), but I would like to know if there will be a new STARTER City-State or not.

The reason being, if there *IS*, I will wait on playing up a new character, because I would want to experience that new starting area for myself on a brand-new character. If there *IS NOT*, then I would probably just go ahead and start a character now, so that way I have the EXP-Bonus for the Dark Knight right out of the gate.

I know it's typically in poor taste to call the Devs out specifically, but if the NA/EU team could somehow get an answer on this for us, that would be absolutely wonderful! I know you guys can't very well give us any information beyond that, but I would simply like to know is a new Starting City-State will be available, as it will greatly impact my own plans for playing :)

Very doubtful. Seeing as your starting state is so directly tied into your introduction to the scions I don't think a new starter city would fit into the narrative at all. Even Ishgard likely won't be available without unlocking it via the story line first.

Well, you have to figure the new Race(s) will also be tied to Ishgard, but you'll be able to start one of those fresh, too. Didn't they mention the expansion will include 2 new Classes, too? If so, that would be enough to justify it. I mean, I just can't imagine the Dark Knight fitting in with any of the existing City-States, but hey, who knows!

I agree - it would be weird to have to do all the 2.0 content on a class that wasn't even present for it before even getting to explore the new expansion. I'd hope they wouldn't retcon classes so badly (did they with Rogue\Nin?), but I doubt we will get an answer here at all.

The new races and jobs will probably come into existence in the former storyline as if they have always existed there. Aka the rogue guild.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

The new races and jobs will probably come into existence in the former storyline as if they have always existed there. Aka the rogue guild.

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There will have to be some serious story work to squeeze in whatever race Yugiri ends up being (instanced starting zone! That's my bet). I can see your point on some of the classes though. Musketeer? Already in Limsa. Dark Knight? uh...hiding...like the rogues were. That or it requires a higher level to unlock it.

Edit: Actually, I'd like to see an instanced starting zone for the new race. It would give us a chance to see some of Doma and see the story behind the flight from it.

Keep in mind that each of our characters, regardless of starting city, is considered an adventurer that has just traveled to Eorzea from Parts Unknown.

I doubt ishgard will function like the current city states do, because if we add a forth grand company into the mix than all the work done on front lines will need to be thrown out the window and redesigned with four competing teams in mind.

During the Heavensward announcement the different ruling houses of Ishgard were emphasized, leading me to think that we may pick one of those houses to ally ourselves with in addition to our grand company and not instead of.

I got off topic a little, but I don't think ishgard will be a city that a character can start in or join like we do the other eorzean cities.

No, they didn't retcon Rogue/Ninja AFAIK. It's a new guild established on Limsa as per the events of the main scenario of patch 2.2. And, keeping it coherent, you can't START a ROG char AFAIK.

I just would like it to be where you can chose what citizenship you wanted to be in tired of the nation you're in change it at an embassy in whatever city Istgard included and add a fee or something to it,but add more options you can do it already with grand companies why not actual city states.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Keep in mind that each of our characters, regardless of starting city, is considered an adventurer that has just traveled to Eorzea from Parts Unknown.

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Yeah, the only thing you really have to worry about is how a little bit of Yuguri text goes, if you're already whatever her race is. It's not really retconing anything. Maybe people make note that you're a rare race, maybe not.
The Rouges' guild isn't a retcon either. It has really been there all along. Just as if you had never noticed the Lancer guild had existed, you wouldn't have been a lancer, you didn't know the rouges guild until now. You just had a little help maintaining your ignorance for so long.

I imagine you'll have to start from one of the original city states. Perhaps there'll be new base classes you can pick, maybe not.
But I can also see them pulling a kind of 2.0 transition. Since it's 3.0 and they have a continuous story to tell, new characters from new starter-villes might just start on the new story! Old ones can easily be transitioned in.

See, I was also personally kind of hoping to see a new GC, as well. I'm kind of "behind the curve" in a lot of respects, so I suppose my thinking -- or at least hope -- is that with Heavensward, it will give us kind of a clean-slate. New Class/Job, new City-State to start in, new Grand Company to swear to; kind of an entirely new experience, you know?

Maybe I just like being immersed in the game a bit more, though. I love the idea of a Dark Knight from Ishgard, presumably of whatever the new Race winds up being, different Grand Company and all. Heck, I'd even dig a totally new trade-skill Job!

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Originally Posted by Terin

Well, you have to figure the new Race(s) will also be tied to Ishgard, but you'll be able to start one of those fresh, too. Didn't they mention the expansion will include 2 new Classes, too? If so, that would be enough to justify it. I mean, I just can't imagine the Dark Knight fitting in with any of the existing City-States, but hey, who knows!

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Each of those things individually tied to the new city wouldn't normally be a big deal if not for the heavy linkage of story and lore to gameplay features. The races technically don't need a starting city since starting city was job based anyway, and in order to make the new jobs pickable by a new character they would have to have guilds in the original 3 cities in order to introduce you to the scions properly. Especially considering a new character would start the game, read all this text about Ishguard being closed off even though they are sitting in Ishguard already. It wouldn't really fit.

A Grand Company in Ishgard I can see. The city was already part of the Alliance and the tradition of the Grand Company is much older than the battle at Silvertear Lake. I think the GC started at the beginning of the 6th astral era and get refounded everytime Eorzea is in big trouble.

But Ishgard as a starter city, I doubt it.
Just think about it. A player start in Ishgard, left the city as a lv1 or lv4 character to kill his first enemies, and all what he see are lv 35-40 enemies. He have to travel to the north shroud to find enemies at his level.

Also, it seem that the war against the dragons go out of control in 3.0, that the dragons start a large offensive against Ishgard and every starter player here would be dragon food ^^

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Originally Posted by Terin

Well, you have to figure the new Race(s) will also be tied to Ishgard, but you'll be able to start one of those fresh, too. Didn't they mention the expansion will include 2 new Classes, too? If so, that would be enough to justify it. I mean, I just can't imagine the Dark Knight fitting in with any of the existing City-States, but hey, who knows!

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ROG is not a starter class. You have to be level 10 to be able to get the class, which means you have to have another class. There is now precedent for the possibility of the new classes NOT being starter classes

Rogue makes perfect sense to actually be hidden, especially since quite a bit of the story they have involves people not even being sure whether or not they exist. The only reason, canonically, that you know they exist is because of Thancred and the doorman handling a food order.

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Originally Posted by Terin

Well, you have to figure the new Race(s) will also be tied to Ishgard, but you'll be able to start one of those fresh, too. Didn't they mention the expansion will include 2 new Classes, too? If so, that would be enough to justify it. I mean, I just can't imagine the Dark Knight fitting in with any of the existing City-States, but hey, who knows!

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The new playable race is thought to be Yugiri's race, who are among the Domans, and so far they have no ties to Ishgard but have an increasing friendship with the three Eorzean Alliance States.

Dark Knights are also confirmed not to have a starting class, which suggests that there wont be an associated guild (since up to this point only classes have guilds). So whoever ends up teaching us how to be a Dark Knight could station themselves almost anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Felis

But Ishgard as a starter city, I doubt it.
Just think about it. A player start in Ishgard, left the city as a lv1 or lv4 character to kill his first enemies, and all what he see are lv 35-40 enemies. He have to travel to the north shroud to find enemies at his level.

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Uh, you know they're adding new zones in Ishgard, right? Per Yoshi P, 3.0 is going to have as much content as 2.0 did at release. I have every reason to believe that Ishgard will have a Starting City, its own Grand Company (perhaps with 4 distinct 'flavors' a la the Houses), and its own 'starter' zones. I'm not sure how they'd integrate existing story content, but for characters starting in Ishgard, they might not have to.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

Uh, you know they're adding new zones in Ishgard, right? Per Yoshi P, 3.0 is going to have as much content as 2.0 did at release. I have every reason to believe that Ishgard will have a Starting City, its own Grand Company (perhaps with 4 distinct 'flavors' a la the Houses), and its own 'starter' zones. I'm not sure how they'd integrate existing story content, but for characters starting in Ishgard, they might not have to.

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Do you really think the new zones would be for low lvl while they increase the level cap? The new zones would be lv 50-60

It won't be a starting city because it clashes with the 2.0 storyline; during that time, Ishgard is already well known for closing its borders to outsiders and it's referenced several times. 2.4 (and maybe beyond) is about Ishgard waking up to the primal threat and possibly working with the other city states to resolve the issues.


You would not have a new character start in Ishgard and then be told they aren't allowed to come back until they reach the 3.0 story.

I think Ishgard will be a level 50-60 city, well the area around Ishgard should be from looking at the information of it. It would be cool to see new classes/jobs in Ishgard though, I wonder how they will do it since Coerthas is a higher level than the other city-state areas :/.

Imagine Ishgard is a newbie starter state..

I bet the quest there have you start out as a peon, and have you go around licking noble boots and sucking up to the religious order.

Perfect training for end game FCs or LS.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

Imagine Ishgard is a newbie starter state..

I bet the quest there have you start out as a peon, and have you go around licking noble boots and sucking up to the religious order.

Perfect training for end game FCs or LS.

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But will they have to tell people not to listen to the Holy See's lies?

The one problem with Ishgard as a starting city is the fact that its neighbor zone is Coerthas. The monsters across the bridge are all mid-30s. If you assume there's a direct exit from Ishgard to the new areas then it's possible to make the area just outside Ishgard in the Dravanian lands a low level section but that would seem odd for anyone not a new player. There would also still be an issue with ever travelling to the other city states with the level 30+ Coerthas Central Highlands in the way. The 3.0 story would have to immediately grant a new Ishgard player airship travel to the regular City-States for leveling purposes unless DRK comes in insta-level 30.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if they pull a "You have to be lvl 30 to become a dark knight" and the job would start off as 30.

From how it appears, the entirety of Ishgard seems like it will be a Lv50+ zone. Could be wrong on that, but that's what it seems like.

As for the new race, I see no reason why the new race couldn't just be a part of the original storyline. Lorewise, everyone who comes in off the trade carriage or boat is from "a distant land".

New regions will probably have mobs ranging from level 1 to 60.

They said more than once that 3.0 will have more new content than 2.0 had, so..

Story quests will probably start at level 1 at 3.0 and have the level increase as the story goes, just like it was in 2.0.

Which is good, since it will be free exp for the new classes/jobs.

Btw the art book from 2.0 collector's edition has Ishgard and Ala Mhigo as mais cities with flags and all, just like Gridania/Ul Dah/Limsa Lominsa.

it will be stupid of them part to add low level area for an expansion, a good example for people that seems to miss the point are wow (the one they take inspiration) exept pandarie that was a special case... wrath of the lich king: new continent, new city all high level. Burning crusade: new continent, new city, all was high level area..

like the name implies it, it's an expansion of what we have already! not a restart!

There's no reason that they'd add a bunch of new low level content. Ishgard as a starting city would have to be written in a very creative way to tie into the current story line as quickly as possible and not be logically absurd. I really don't see how it could be done without rewriting/ voicing/ animating a lot of the 2.0 story to accommodate adventurers from a completely closed off city which itself plays a part in the story but refuses to supply much aid (or open their borders). It will be odd enough that new players will probably be able to experience that story line while simultaneously having access to the city, though maybe SE will actually keep it locked until you progress far enough.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

it will be stupid of them part to add low level area for an expansion

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Would it though? One of the chief hurdles faced by the game's leveling is a lack of quests and a reliance on leves/fates/dungeons. Would a fresh influx of leveling zones not be well-received?

The reason they won't have a new starter city:
you can complete everything in this game and see the entire game from 1 character. That's right, 1 character is all you /NEED/ to see everything in this game. They even made the initial story for each starting city only slightly different(maybe play 3 character to 15 pick your favorite and go). To add another starting city that would require an clearly unique story would mean that they would expect battle hardened vets to make a new character so they can see this new content.

Not enough?
the level 15-20 first 3 party instance dungeons is all about the city states and they would need to create a whole new set of starter dungeons or some crazy explanation for how you got dragged into these problems.

The rest of 2.0 story is just more of the smash this new starting city into lore so we can have it be a starting city.

Odds are they will lock players out until x level or x mission in story is complete.

I woder thought. Would Heavensward focus exclusively on Ishgard? I see Sharlyalan as a possibility (the devs did say they were including more content then 2.0, and that has 3 city states. There's also the matter of the disappearing scholars)

On the other hand you could argue that the citystates mechanical purpose is for the Grand Companies and that the houses would fulfill a similar role

I think the bigger question is where will new players start on the storyline? Will they have to go through all of 2.0's story quests before being able to start anything in Ishgard?

If they DO have to go through all the MSQ missions we've already done it's going to take a LONG time before someone who bought the game for 3.0 gets to what they wanted to play. Add to that, all the lv50 quests you get after Praetorium are going to have to give EXP as the levelcap won't be 50 any longer.

If they DON'T have to going through the MSQ missions, then how are they going to gain access to current content as the majority of that is walled behind the 2.0 MSQ progression.

Ishgard will be the 4th city-state but....

We don't know how many new Jobs will be in 3.0 since they only said there will be new Jobs but they never mentioned specific amount of new Jobs there will be.

Dark Knight is a new Job but it is a Stand Alone Jobs which is a new set of Jobs designed to function without a Class. Players can unlock Stand Alone Jobs, like Dark knight, any time they want but these Stand Alone Jobs will not be starter Jobs and will require players to go out and find the location of these Stand Alone Job Trainers.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

I think the bigger question is where will new players start on the storyline? Will they have to go through all of 2.0's story quests before being able to start anything in Ishgard?

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It's kind of odd and not the way MMO story lines usually work, but I think it will be the case that any new story quests in 3.0 will directly follow and require the completion of the MSQs from 2.5. Ishgard opening its borders seems like it will be part of the story and it might be the case with access to other areas as well. That is interesting though about the multitude of level 50 quests we've completed since we hit 50. If they all grant experience points once the level cap has been increased then those alone should take you a very long way. However, I could see them unlocking the level cap via the first main scenario quest in 3.0 or something, such that you actually are stuck at 50 until you complete all of the quests through 2.5.

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Originally Posted by Intaki

Would it though? One of the chief hurdles faced by the game's leveling is a lack of quests and a reliance on leves/fates/dungeons. Would a fresh influx of leveling zones not be well-received?

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It would certainly make a lot of zones go unused.

There only needs to be so many zones that have the purpose of guiding you to the exact same place. End game.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

But will they have to tell people not to listen to the Holy See's lies?

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Yeah... you probably have to rat out those who said not to believe in the Holy See.

Then you need to burn those ppl on stakes to proof your worth to the Reglious order.

Then get 200gil and 5000exp.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

The new playable race is thought to be Yugiri's race, nip.

Dark Knights are also confirmed not to have a starting class, which suggests that there wont be an associated guild (since up to this point only classes have guilds). So whoever ends up teaching us how to be a Dark Knight could station themselves almost anywhere.

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My wish for the new race is these:
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...ia_Ravager.png

If it Yugiri's race that we get, she has a somewhat scaled tail, what appear to be horns, and makes comment that she would prefer not to reveal her features because people find her appearance 'disturbing'

It wouldn't be hard to extrapolate that into people fearing a winged/horned humanoid as a Demon.
Also, having Flight as a feature in Heavensward feeds my wishes and hopes for a winged race.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

how are they going to gain access to current content as the majority of that is walled behind the 2.0 MSQ progression.

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The easiest way is to give the MSQs i80 rewards, enough that you can Duty Find the Trials and Dungeons to get through.
Something tells me that the "low Level DR" will expand into "low Level Trials" as well, this would allow level capped players to assist in the story progression of new 3.0 players rather seamlessly, in much the way they do right now for new people leveling.

I still want my snow-covered/scottish highlands housing area from doing enough nice things for Ishgard...