Overall how much damage buff does front line job get in 1.18A?

Overall how much damage buff does front line job get in 1.18A? Does anybody test things out yet? Since Front line job are much risky fight compare to Archer, I wonder if this WS buff make them at least equal or better as in DD yet.

I haven't done a lot of testing but on LNC Skewer/Moonrise seem to do more damage than Twisting Vice now.

Sadly Chaos Thrust still seems meh. I might do some more tests later, but the damage it does still doesn't seem to be worth the TP cost. Maybe around 20% it will be a different story.

My marauder team mate says it is maybe a 100dmg increase on the upgraded WS. Tho I tried on my lancer with the upgraded WS doing a few levequests and saw almost 200dmg increase. Skewer and Moonrise are really powerful now.

I will see how much trunksplitter does next time, i dont think he used that one at all.

R37 Lancer, mobs I grind on fairly regularly were taking ~400 damage from Skewer II pre 1.18A now they are taking ~550.

Noticeable enough for me.

I thought the melee did great damage before patch.

skull shunder is doing more dmg for me then trunkspliter II at 25

Compare to ARC in DPS, can they win yet? because ARC get safety in Orge.

boost their damage all they want, they still will not be prefered over the safety and the ease of MP management with an Archer. That is the advantage to playing a ranged class. In all honestly, I thought the other melee stacked up well with Archer damage wise before patch, just a lot of complaining going on with everyone wanting to be the "best". Only thing hard to compare with is a fully buffed multishot, which now you have to wait 15 seconds just to nock another arrow to be able to do that. So who knows, maybe melee can equal its damage in that time span.

Again, as I said, I think these melee were really good damage wise before this patch and don't think they even needed a damage boost.

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Originally Posted by Alise

Compare to ARC in DPS, can they win yet? because ARC get safety in Orge.

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melee could safely do ogre before, all it took was smart positioning. in terms of dps output, melee will not match archer imo till weapon delays or cool downs on things like pummel, heavy slash etc are lowered.

another thing, weapon delays interrupting themselves after abilities are used slows down melee dps as well. its kind of dumb to have a 4second delay, use invigorate 2sec after an autoattack proc just to reset the delay, gg on a 6sec delay.

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Originally Posted by Scape

boost their damage all they want, they still will not be prefered over the safety and the ease of MP management with an Archer. That is the advantage to playing a ranged class. In all honestly, I thought the other melee stacked up well with Archer damage wise before patch, just a lot of complaining going on with everyone wanting to be the "best". Only thing hard to compare with is a fully buffed multishot, which now you have to wait 15 seconds just to nock another arrow to be able to do that. So who knows, maybe melee can equal its damage in that time span.

Again, as I said, I think these melee were really good damage wise before this patch and don't think they even needed a damage boost.

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Quoting for future video rebuttal.

Melee can trigger elbow drop and keep the tank from getting damaged. During this time the mages can regain precious MP. Risky? Sure, but dang when I time my buffs right, trigger elbow drop and hit him in the butt with a weaponskill I'm dps'ing, protecting the tank, and giving the players who need it time to recover.

Of course this changes during Batraal fight... but I'm working on that one.

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Originally Posted by desslok

melee could safely do ogre before, all it took was smart positioning. in terms of dps output, melee will not match archer imo till weapon delays or cool downs on things like pummel, heavy slash etc are lowered.

another thing, weapon delays resetting themselves after abilities are used slows down melee dps as well. its kind of dumb to have a 4second delay, use invigorate 2sec after an autoattack proc just to reset the delay, gg on a 6sec delay.

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You or I are doing something wrong or different.

My delay doesn't reset when I time my skills and abilities right... edit: or maybe I haven't noticed. Time to find out while I farm pudding.

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Originally Posted by desslok

melee could safely do ogre before, all it took was smart positioning. in terms of dps output, melee will not match archer imo till weapon delays or cool downs on things like pummel, heavy slash etc are lowered.

another thing, weapon delays resetting themselves after abilities are used slows down melee dps as well. its kind of dumb to have a 4second delay, use invigorate 2sec after an autoattack proc just to reset the delay, gg on a 6sec delay.

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I'm surprised more people aren't complaining about this. It's so irritating.

i see no major boost to my MRD skills that SE was boasting about in patch notes. And yes Tezz its downright crippling to close range melees when using abilities and delay resetting; espeically MRD at times where one missed attk can cost u yer life and less chances at attacking are even more burdensome. Sometimes the easiest of fights can become impossible for a MRD after whiffing just one slow ass 4.2/6 sec attack... Now why wasnt skull sunder included in the suposed boosted attacks its MRDs primary tp attack and about the only usefull one during SP grinds because its hard enough to build/keep that much tp in a good grind pt anyways.

I was just grinding my usual Limsa leves on MRD at the same difficulty as i recently have been doing and i see no noticable dif in dmg in trunksplitter, brutal swing, or storms path. Maim seemed like it hit slightly harder maybe 40-100points sometimes. This is a joke of a boost period. I remember in ff11 when Tp attacks/weaponskills meant something more and higher lvl ones had so much more to offer but these TP attacks so far are just lame. The dmg scaling per skill and lvl are just medicore. Wheres are multi hitting critical etc ... tp attacks.

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Quoting for future video rebuttal.

Melee can trigger elbow drop and keep the tank from getting damaged. During this time the mages can regain precious MP. Risky? Sure, but dang when I time my buffs right, trigger elbow drop and hit him in the butt with a weaponskill I'm dps'ing, protecting the tank, and giving the players who need it time to recover.

Of course this changes during Batraal fight... but I'm working on that one.

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I am one of the few who think the close range melee can hang with Archer. I would bet LNC is able to out DD an Archer. Problem is that a lot of melee just flat out are not very good lol. Sometime its like talking to a wall trying to explain to one that they have to pay attention to what the mob is doing. So, its just much safer to go with an archer that you shouldn't have to worry about very much as long as they are not brain dead.

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And yes Tezz its downright crippling to close range melees when using abilities and delay resetting

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best to try to time your ability right when you AA. It timed right, will skip AA animation but both AA and ability will hit.

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espeically MRD at times where one missed attk can cost u yer life and less chances at attacking are even more burdensome.

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This effects all melee, not just MRD. MRDs delay is not that much slower then others. Everyone has to stand there waiting for that next attack.

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Sometimes the easiest of fights can become impossible for a MRD after whiffing just one slow ass 4.2/6 sec attack

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again, same for other classes. You can also equip invigorate and other basic attacks just like everyone else.

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Maim seemed like it hit slightly harder maybe 40-100points sometimes. This is a joke of a boost period

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to get even close to being somewhat accurate, you would have to do a in depth test with recording the damage done over hundreds of mobs. There are lots of things that can factor in, not to mention randomness, it would be awfully hard to eyeball it and come to a conclusion.

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I remember in ff11 when Tp attacks/weaponskills meant something more and higher lvl ones had so much more to offer but these TP attacks so far are just lame. The dmg scaling per skill and lvl are just medicore. Wheres are multi hitting critical etc ... tp attacks.

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Lets not forget that in FFXI, 98% of weapon skills sucked before level 50. Most classes didn't even blossom until around levels 55-60 with weapon skills. We have more, stronger, and better looking weapon skills right now in FFXIV then FFXI did at this point in its life span and at these lower levels.

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Originally Posted by Scape

Sometime its like talking to a wall trying to explain to one that they have to pay attention to what the mob is doing. So, its just much safer to go with an archer that you shouldn't have to worry about very much as long as they are not brain dead.

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It's one thing if we want to talk about ranged vs. melee in terms of efficiency in a speedrun, but if you can't even get your melee DPS to learn how to handle basic entry level mechanics then your problem is bad players or a lack of leadership, not encounter design. We shouldn't even have to be talking about "safety" on easy stuff like this. If you try your best to explain things to someone and they can't grasp the concept within a reasonable number of attempts I'd just cut them from the group. I wouldn't even take that person on ARC.

I'm not even trying to get into a pickup group for dungeons anymore. It's just speedrun, safety, arc/con only crap. Doing something like that just for some mediocre loot is kinda... boring. I'd rather earn an extra chest by dealing 10000 dmg in one aoe hit or stuff like that. Lancer can do that pretty easily with all those skeletons after all :D

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Originally Posted by Scape

boost their damage all they want, they still will not be prefered over the safety and the ease of MP management with an Archer. That is the advantage to playing a ranged class. In all honestly, I thought the other melee stacked up well with Archer damage wise before patch, just a lot of complaining going on with everyone wanting to be the "best". Only thing hard to compare with is a fully buffed multishot, which now you have to wait 15 seconds just to nock another arrow to be able to do that. So who knows, maybe melee can equal its damage in that time span.

Again, as I said, I think these melee were really good damage wise before this patch and don't think they even needed a damage boost.

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Not really, since most people need to play risky method to get the 5th chest anyway, and there is already time attack competition going on between some LSs. So if Front line job make the orge kill faster then those kind of people will ditch ARC for them.

In future it will be :
goal :beat boss safety = choose ARC (they don't need to dodge at all, much more safety no matter how bad your connection is)
goal :time attack = choose MRD/LNC/PUG (if they have better Dps then ARC now, which I m curious...)

Atleast you could notice when Banish & Scourge damage was increased. On my Mrd I don't see it :(

Well pre .18a I was doing maybe...150 on Skewer II and Moonrise, less than 200 for sure. Now I'm doing anywhere from 250-450. I've seen a general 150-200 dmg increase since the patch. And to be honest, for someone who doesn't piss around with re-setting my stats everytime I want to go out and do something, it's a good thing. :D

i see about a 100 to 150 dmg increase. its right were these skills should have been at the start IMO. Very good update.

I have noticed a 300+ increase in Victimize on my PUG.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

It's one thing if we want to talk about ranged vs. melee in terms of efficiency in a speedrun, but if you can't even get your melee DPS to learn how to handle basic entry level mechanics then your problem is bad players or a lack of leadership, not encounter design. We shouldn't even have to be talking about "safety" on easy stuff like this. If you try your best to explain things to someone and they can't grasp the concept within a reasonable number of attempts I'd just cut them from the group. I wouldn't even take that person on ARC.

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My point proven. I agree with what you are saying. But these are things you don't really have to worry about with an Archer. Some of us do the dungeon with pick up parties and can't always have the high level of coordination and skill with every person in the party like we are sometimes use to when going with LS members. But really, its not always the fault of lack of leadership.... lets be honest, some people are just flat out stupid, some are just bull headed and want to do things their own way no matter what you tell them or ask them to do. I have lost count of how many times I have gone in with another melee(I like going LNC), you spend an extended period of time before the fight explaining things to them, then when the fight starts, they proceed to go stand there like a dummy, get themselves killed, and then cry for a raise so they can go do it again. I don't even understand how this can happen almost, when considering melee is by far the easiest to play in the game. Not all of us are able to go with our regular LS groups so this is a problem for some. Some times I have just a little play time and if there are no runs going with my LS I gotta try to go with randoms or another LS, and I see these problems a lot.

There are also factors that come into play that we have no control over. Sometimes RL stuff has to have our attention while we are playing. An archer will more then likely still be alive after that, a melee probably wont. It's just less risk with ranged attack, no reason to argue against it just to feel a high and mighty. I'm not saying they are better, just less risk. Two totally different things that some people have a hard time comprehending.

You've said about all there is to say on this really and you're correct. This damage buff does very little to solve or deter the problem that already exists, but it is quite nice for my levelling lol.

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Originally Posted by Gath

I have noticed a 300+ increase in Victimize on my PUG.

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Yea victimize is doin some great damage now. R46 vs 47+ antling digger. 3000 tp victimize does 800+. with raging strike II its 900+ (i think raging strike II should have more of an effect than that tho ; ; (Using bowmanship)). That is just Victimize I too, not even II.

Overall tho, I think lancers are doing the most damage now. Saw a r30 lancer and r28 archer duoing a beastman. Lancer WS's were hitting twice as much as archers.

I haven't done the R45 dungeon for obvious reasons, but I thought the Ogre AOE was a frontal cone? Couldn't melee just stand behind it like in any game that has an enemy with a frontal cone AOE?

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Originally Posted by Capita

I haven't done the R45 dungeon for obvious reasons, but I thought the Ogre AOE was a frontal cone? Couldn't melee just stand behind it like in any game that has an enemy with a frontal cone AOE?

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A frontal cone attack, a rear cone attack, and a 360 fire attack that melee cant really avoid unless it gets randomly interrupted by damage, which happens from time to time.

(shield bash isn't the same is FFXI either btw, it doesn't stun, int interrupts spell casts and mutes for a few seconds, fire drop isn't a spell. *stare*)

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Originally Posted by Reika

A frontal cone attack, a rear cone attack, and a 360 fire attack that melee cant really avoid unless it gets randomly interrupted by damage, which happens from time to time.

(shield bash isn't the same is FFXI either btw, it doesn't stun, int interrupts spell casts and mutes for a few seconds, fire drop isn't a spell. *stare*)

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Ah, good to know. Ty.

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Originally Posted by Scape

Problem is that a lot of melee just flat out are not very good lol.

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Bingo.

Sadly.