Goad

I don't know why I have to say this everytime I tank a dungeon as Warrior.. (when there's a Ninja in the group)

But PLEASE use Goad on Warrior Tanks in dungeons especially when they do pull more than just one group....

There's no way for us to see how much TP you have, so you need to let your party know when you need it. It's on a 3minute cooldown so I'd kinda want to save it until you actually needed it.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

There's no way for us to see how much TP you have, so you need to let your party know when you need it. It's on a 3minute cooldown so I'd kinda want to save it until you actually needed it.

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Pretty much this. If you say Goad, I'll do it. But I can't gauge how much TP you have remaining. So..First come first serve.

Uh, you can definitely gauge their TP remaining. Did WAR use 5+ Overpowers? Then give them a Goad.

Since I casually play warrior sometimes I know exactly in what kind of situations one would run out of TP, so I always goad them. :3
It's not that hard to figure when he needs it, you don't have to wait until he is out of TP then it's too late, you have to do it halfway.

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Originally Posted by ShaolinMike

There's no way for us to see how much TP you have, so you need to let your party know when you need it. It's on a 3minute cooldown so I'd kinda want to save it until you actually needed it.

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^ This. We can't mind read your TP.

This is also nothing new as Bard can't mind read your TP either. MP isn't an issue as we can see it.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Uh, you can definitely gauge their TP remaining. Did WAR use 5+ Overpowers? Then give them a Goad.

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So we have to watch them on top of our Ninjutsu priorities and keeping all buffs and DoTs up.

No, they can simply ask for it. Ninja is not only a new job ppl are still figuring out, overall it is extremely busy.

Bard can watch other pt members and also manage songs, because the job isn't as busy and much more simplistic. Goad has a CD and is not based on MP.

Maybe when players get everything figured out, priorities down, and muscle memory perfect we can do this. The job is only a week old.

There is basically 2 levels of play combating here: those who know the intricacies of Warriors, and those who do not. Players like Atreiddes who play Warrior are right in that an above average Ninja will know instinctively when to Goad, but the majority of players, the average Ninja, will not know. Proper edicate should be to ask for Goad when needed, as most Ninjas will be average and not know, or not think about it. If your running a tight knit group, or static, then you can berate your Ninja comrade for slacking his comprehension =)

Is the Tank keeping 7+ mobs on him? Obviously he's used more than just one or two Overpower, so you can Goad.

Not hard, really.

Or even Goad after killing the mobs so the next pull happens faster. It's all for your sake lol.. (and for the sake of a fast(er) run)

Just give it to the tank whenever it's off CD. done. :)

Last few times I asked for Goad, all I heard from the Ninja was "oh, I gave it to the Bard"

Just saying... Not like Bards have Invigorate y'know, and TP song.. <_<

Since Goad doesnt have any detrimental effects like bards tp song and doesnt require timing like invigorate i just basically always give it to someone when its off CD.

It also might encourage the warrior to spam some additional overpowers to add extra aoe dps.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Since Goad doesnt have any detrimental effects like bards tp song and doesnt require timing like invigorate i just basically always give it to someone when its off CD.

It also might encourage the warrior to spam some additional overpowers to add extra aoe dps.

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And also to keep hate on the mobs overall, when he's only like i90 and the DDs both 110.

Yeah i never understood why they don't show TP, but maybe there never has been an ability or potion to really affect it before now. Why not have HP MP and TP different colors and have them stacked with each other...or at the very least have MP/TP stacked vertically.

Also...why the heck can't you goad yourself? Well...outside the obvious reasons that you will seem crazy trying to annoy and provoke yourself during combat=P.

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Originally Posted by Asakura93

Is the Tank keeping 7+ mobs on him? Obviously he's used more than just one or two Overpower, so you can Goad.

Not hard, really.

Or even Goad after killing the mobs so the next pull happens faster. It's all for your sake lol.. (and for the sake of a fast(er) run)

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This is fine honestly and manageable when a tank is actually doing this. My main point is the job is a week old and many of us are figuring stuff out and actively staring at our hotbars. Mudra casting has to be watched due to latency/server side checks.

Also:

Not everyone views these forums, if a NIN isn't giving you Goad then instruct them to or you can even tell them at the beginning of a run to make things go smoother.

Hah and people complaining about bards not using songs.

I dont get it. Goad doesnt reduce dmg like songs do so y not just spam it if theres a warrior

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

So we have to watch them on top of our Ninjutsu priorities and keeping all buffs and DoTs up.

No, they can simply ask for it. Ninja is not only a new job ppl are still figuring out, overall it is extremely busy.

Bard can watch other pt members and also manage songs, because the job isn't as busy and much more simplistic. Goad has a CD and is not based on MP.

Maybe when players get everything figured out, priorities down, and muscle memory perfect we can do this. The job is only a week old.

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"Figuring out" the job doesn't take that long nor does it take that much effort. Figuring out when a WAR might need TP is not an observation unique to Ninja. It's not that much to ask that people have a base understanding of what other jobs do.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

"Figuring out" the job doesn't take that long nor does it take that much effort. Figuring out when a WAR might need TP is not an observation unique to Ninja. It's not that much to ask that people have a base understanding of what other jobs do.

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From my own experience. It isn't an issue, especially something like Goad. I have yet to see the need so far in my runs as I have been doing ST to gear for higher dungeons and passing Goad over to MNKs/DRGs, if none then Tanks. In other dungeons and bigger pulls, yes priority to tanks.

However, you are not going to come across everyone like this. Which my point being yet again: ask for it if they aren't doing it. Not everyone reads the forums or has this understanding or observation/knowledge of other jobs. DF is a testament to getting the mixed bag of players and especially with 2.4 being Dungeon focused and hunts being less appealing.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Also...why the heck can't you goad yourself? Well...outside the obvious reasons that you will seem crazy trying to annoy and provoke yourself during combat=P.

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My guess is that if you could, most ninja's would only use it on themselves when its intended to be a support skill for your party.

I have not played WAR other than to lvl it a long, long time ago. I have no clue when a WAR needs tp. Why would it be so difficult for a WAR to type goad if they need it.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

So we have to watch

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Don't watch. Listen. Overpower has a very distinctive "woogie-woogie-whammo" sound that is easy to distinguish from other SFX.

But any pull with 4+ targets would benefit from Goad. You could apply it right at the start. Trust your instincts and play proactively.

Here is a handy chart:
1. Are there 4 or more targets? If Y, go to 2. If N, hold Goad.
2. Is there a WAR? If Y, Goad the WAR. If N, go to 3.
3. Is there a MNK? If Y, Goad the MNK. If N, go to 4.
4. Is there a DRG? If Y, you can't Goad KO'd targets. If N, hold Goad.

Why do WAR's spam overpower? Just overpower three times, then build wrath for steel cyclone. We did fine with no goad before, we will do fine now. Give goad to dps so they can do more dps

Oh geeeeeeez. How did Warriors ever get by without Rogues/Ninjas? Heavens forbid a Warrior get his Gladiator to 15 and set Flash on his bar, so he can use something besides Overpower from time to time. If only there were some other mechanic exclusive to warrior to build some kind of secondary resource with which to use skills that might generate enmity or mitigate damage. Unfortunately there is not. Skills like Steel Cyclone and Infuriate do not exist. For all time Warriors will be forced to rely solely upon Ninjas to Goad them for Overpower Spam, a Warrior's only skill. If only Retaliate also generated this non-existent resource that does not exist.

No wait, all of this stuff does exist, and this is 100% a L2P Warrior situation.

^ Great logic. Let's take it further: Goad didn't exist before 2.4 so it's not needed to use it ever.

Ninja didn't exist before 2.4 so we don't need to use it ever.

It's nice to have, but it's not completely needed. I guess the Ninjas need to know when to use it and on who, but also it shouldn't be strictly for tanks if they're using TP they don't need to using "woogie-woogie-whammo".

I will use flash when going into dungeons and add a few over powers, after that though hate is maintained until the group has dwindled down enough to where using BB rotation and target switching is enough.

It's situational, I've had ninja's give me it during mid-fight after a pull that was big. I didn't have to say anything but you sort of get a feeling when to use it. Like Black Mages using their magic buff on a tank. I always thought it was there because the DPS aoe moves can be rather costly..so help them out a bit and give them some TP!

Maybe the question shouldn't be why aren't Ninja's giving the TP but why are the warriors using their "woogie-woogie-whammo" too much? I like that...I'm taking that into a macro. If you ever get a tank and overpower comes with a "woogie-woogie-whammo" text...this was a good day.

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Originally Posted by Rawkzor

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Bruh, don't turn nin into the next brd by not wanting to cast Goad on someone.... plz.

The only class you don't Goad is brd, and that's if there is another DPS (melee) in the party or a tank needs it. At that point, if the brd wants tp he should play paeon. Chances are the other dps could use some help with tp at that time too.

It's not about enmity.

Overpower is 120 potency conal AoE with no combo requirement and the only other AoE WAR has besides Steel Cyclone. Since WAR has no means of replenishing TP, Goad fits nicely for them. Granted, it's only feasible to use OP for DPS when there are a minimum number of targets.

If you know your MNK or DRG isn't a clown, goad them all you want. But I assume we're talking about random-ass DF where the MNK has internalized "MNK can't AoE" and the DRG is going to spam 100 potency Ring of Thorns. A WAR really can't screw up Overpower.

Im maining a tank, and I honestly don't expect Goad unless I ask for it. Which takes a simple "Goad Please." in the chat. The end. All's well that ends well.

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Originally Posted by Rawkzor

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Bruh, don't turn nin into the next brd by not wanting to cast Goad on someone.... plz.

The only class you don't Goad is brd, and that's if there is another DPS (melee) in the party or a tank needs it. At that point, if the brd wants tp he should play paeon. Chances are the other dps could use some help with tp at that time too.

@Leonus, This is not about BRD and Paeon, this is about WARs burning all their TP on Overpowers and then expecting NINs to read their minds and Goad them.
@SeraviEdalborez, Goad did not exist before 2.4, therefore WARs should now burn their TP while expecting immediate Goads without having to ask for it, then create forums complaining about NINs not watching their every move and mentally counting their TP to pre-emptively Goad them.

If you need Goad, ask for it. MNK and DRG need Goad too. Yes, I know they also have Invigorate. You also have other skills and resources. If you are going to lose hate because you ran out of TP, you are doing something wrong. Overpower does not need to be spammed until you are completely out of TP.

Create a macro for it for gods sake... Or just type "Goad" in chat or something... I don't play as a WAR, and therefore it's not very easy to know when to use it.

I've even been yelled at, for using Goad when the WAR apparently didn't need it...

All the good tanks that I know, made a macro as soon as 2.4 was out. It should be common sense...

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

Listen.

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Good info for a new player or someone that played a job which provided lil utility for WAR.

The reason why I generalized in the beginning is simple. Just because I know how WAR works, doesn't mean every Ninja does. The job is a week old. Telling them to get it into their mind set with big pulls isn't a negative thing.

In a Dungeon (tome grinds):

I expect a WAR to do Storm's Eye if they are in my PT against a single target. Why? You are a tank and not a DPS. It is more beneficial for you to keep SE going so I can maintain my 2 DoTs and push more filler DPS via my AE Combo.

Higher End Content as a WAR MT (Situational):

In a Burn Phase you can apply SE while a NIN can focus on DPS and DoT. However, if your WAR is getting wrecked then they can focus on Storm's Path and your NIN can take over Slash debuff.

I feel the increase in your Storm's Eye was put in for a reason besides giving NIN its own version.

Since most dungeons are speedrun I will goad the brd/drg/mnk or other nin if there is a PLD or the WAR if there is a WAR on the big pulls. If they need it for any other situation in a normal dungeon they need to learn to manage TP better.

As Mnk I always assume that I run out of TP first (even with invigorate) in prolonged boss encounters so would likely to Goad them if the fight goes on too long.

everyone remembers the first time they forgot to remove sprint off their hot-bars, and then the caster run ahead of the group and pulling agro.

I never know what to think of these new jobs...

The only time a WAR will need Goad is if you're doing a speed run - in which case, you might as well just put it on him/her once everything has been pulled and the OP spam is about to begin as it will have roughly the same effect as using it half way through their OP spamming.

Also Unchained + Berserk OP spamming is the highest damage you can do to all mobs per GCD. Usually all the mobs are dead by the time I've been pacified and I'm usually not bottomed out on TP at that point, however, I do run the risk of that if I go straight to the next boss and pull immediately. I had this problem in Snowcloak SRs and while it wasn't a huge issue it would've been nice to have a Goad in that situation.

Other than this very specific scenario where you're speed running a dungeon, a Goad macro is handy as the NIN can't see your TP and he shouldn't have to guess when someone will need it.

I'll give someone Goad/Army's Paeon if TP users need them but to use them "whenever they are available" or "watch the Tank" or "watch the mob size" is not a good indicator. The first one is a complete waste because of cooldown and MP. The second is hard to tell when watching for your own survival and rotation. You could watch the mob size but for that I have a question.

How would you run a dungeon/fast run without a BRD or NIN? I ask this because I have seen Tanks pull multiple targets even with 2 MP users still keeping the pace of the dungeon.

I'll abide and use my tools to help out but I can't read minds and some TP users don't have problems whether Tank or DPS and generally won't need the extra TP. Lastly if using a controller it is likely Goad is on a secondary crossbar.

Adding the message as a macro helps a lot in rotational flow.

Just my thoughts but again all you need to do is ask. No one can read your TP or TP management ability.

Let's make a deal.... You Goad me, and I'll keep the slashing debuff up! :p

Found it a little funny how an update in XI recently was added that let you see the TP of Avatars, Puppets, and Pets for BST, but XIV still doesn't have one in it by now. XI should have had that eons ago, but it should be something obvious for XIV. Just have that information pop up when you target a party member, doesn't need to be always shown in the party list, but it should be seen by now.

Id rather give it to the brd or drg so they can keep up AOE spam imo.