Couldn't find PLD BiS anywhere so I took the time to find it with a gear calculator and I believe I did. Please note the accuracy cap for final coil hasn't been found yet and it's a rough estimate. Please tell me what you think
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O9CC
2.4 PLD BiS found?
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11-04-2014, 09:57 PMStarbirth2.4 PLD BiS found?
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11-05-2014, 12:13 AMSirTaint
ACC Cap is 550 (maybe a couple points less)
VIT build would be something like this:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O9F9
STR would be something like this:
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O9FD -
11-05-2014, 08:33 AMStarbirth
So were just throwing parry out the window?
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11-05-2014, 10:52 AMDonjoSome people certainly believe that. However, 650 Parry combined with a i130-35 shield is nothing to scoff at. You'll be doing something to mitigate literally 45% of all physical attacks, give or take a percent. However, that number isn't over 50; the point where Parry will start to actually truly be useful. Current trends point to it possibly getting there though. We'll see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbirth
Regarding the use of STR, I'll start by saying that I have no idea of the HP requirements of the Final Coil. However, I would consider it safest to avoid replacing every VIT accessory with an equivalent STR accessory. Stupid STR tanks completely replace them in high end content. Smarter STR tanks use melded accessories to have the best of both worlds. Once we have i110 accessories to craft, they'll be indisputably best in slot for any Tank looking to be physically stronger. In the meantime... I can't say for certain whether it's better to use i130 VIT accessories right now or stick with those i90 pentamelds. The best way to experiment with STR right now is to respec your bonus stats. That'll get you STR at a cost of 1 VIT per point of STR. Replacing accessories makes you gain less STR than your VIT loss, but using melded accessories gives you more than one point of STR for every point of lost VIT. -
11-05-2014, 10:56 AMWizhard
From what im hearing the acc cap is around 560 so this is what ill probably go for http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O9ZH
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11-05-2014, 10:34 PMSirTaint
T13 was cleared with 8500hp (PLD)heq
Which is i110-112
Turn 10 is doable in a full str build at i110.
By the time people are i130 full str builds will be BiS.
I haven't seen a t13 video but parry shouldn't be in a t10-12 BiS.
Parry right now for progression is a good idea but By the time anyone approaches Bis progression will be long gone. (Besides Savage FCoB) -
11-05-2014, 10:56 PMTrivariumOri
I was going to go for something like this http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OAGV
Str/Vit not too bad, decent amount of det while still being main tank material. -
11-06-2014, 01:38 AMWizhard
Why less than 560 acc? There are reports of misses with 555 acc.
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11-06-2014, 01:04 PMDonjoCorrection: T13 was cleared with 8500 HP by the best players in the world. Perfect play, perfect mitigation, and perfect strategy. The rest of us 99% will need more of a buffer than this. As for what the best buffer for a more average player is, we'll just have to see what's happening when more people get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTaint
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11-07-2014, 06:34 AMSirTaintBy the time the rest of us are on t13 we will have over 8500 by default. And then dps will increase, the fight we be dissected and tanks will stack str again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
Just like the last month of t9 was tanked in full str. It's all one big cycle. -
11-07-2014, 08:32 AMDonjoIt wasn't tanked in full STR(the definition of full STR in this case being a right side completely made up of Slaying accessories; putting STR into bonus stats is optional). As I said earlier, only stupid Tanks think it's smart to completely replace VIT with STR in high end content. It was tanked in melded i90(and i70 before that), which is as much STR as you can stack while remaining at 7.4-7.5k, the accepted minimum HP required to survive T9 with a good party. It was tanked this way in the final months because those were the months when the option was available. T13 probably won't be truly STR tanked until melded i110 accessories are available, although I don't doubt people will go at it with crafted i90, just like people went at T9 with crafted i70.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTaint
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11-07-2014, 08:53 AMSirTaintQuote:
Originally Posted by Donjo
No we single tanked t9 in full str (gloam,slaying,30/30) for the last 5 kills before 2.4. -
11-07-2014, 11:37 PMGangalooACC cap in T13 appears to be 558. Over the course of 20 hours I missed 3 times at 557. I never missed at 558.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTaint
We almost cleared T13 with me wearing i90 crafted STR accessories with VIT melds, putting me lower than 8500 total HP. Unfortunately, since we were still learning mechanics I opted to go for full VIT gear for our kill just to make sure nothing went wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTaint
The final phase is very heal intensive so minimizing anything that could go wrong was the ideal route to go in my opinion.
Keep in mind though, my left side was built around maximizing my block/parry rate.
I'm not sure whether or not that this will be the case. i90 crafted STR accessories with VIT melds are definitely doable with a full ilvl 130 left side. However, I'm going to quote something someone said to me while we were progressing through T13...Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTaint
"Akh Morn takes no prisoners."
Full STR right side might be a bit of a stretch in this fight. However, we'll have to see.
The main issue with going full offensive tank vs defensive tank has never really been about the tank gear itself. It relies more heavily on the healers. You'll take more damage going full DET/CRIT in the ilvl 130 gear than you will in full crafted left side or ilvl 130 parry gear.
In that case you become a HP sponge. However, a healer with an ilvl 130 weapon will trivialize the extra in coming damage you are taking from just stacking more VIT and going DET/CRIT. In which case you can easily start using i90 crafted STR accessories and go for a pure offensive tank build.
In the end I think that DET/CRIT builds will definitely be BiS for tanks. However, the road to get there will take a little while. There's a LOT of damage going out in the last phase, a lot of which is NOT directed at the tank. Almost all of this damage is unavoidable.
Until healers can power heal through this with better gear, you're safer going for a more defensive build.
So as far as your assessment concerning tank gearing being a cycle, I believe you are correct. -
11-08-2014, 01:31 AMSeraviEdalborez
You do not take more damage by having less VIT. You barely take less damage by having less parry.
The act of parrying is not bad. The returns on the parry stat on gear is bad. Base rate is sufficient. More det = fight ends marginally faster = higher chance of dealing with less mechanics = less chance of death. -
11-08-2014, 06:47 AMValkyrie_Lenneth
So i just spent about 20 mins running some tests, and with 211 det and 416 str, did ~165 dps. went till was out of tp. with 283 det and 418 str, did ~173 dps. This was all in shield oath, since i wanted to see if it would be worth adjusting as MT, so far, doesn't seem like it.
Doesn't seem to be a huge impact with that.
4 tests with each stat set, not a huge sample size i know, but i doubt the results would change that much
Strength on the other hand, I can see doing a lot more for you. -
11-08-2014, 07:43 AMSirTaintQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
8dps is 6500 damage in a 13min coil fight. With a bunch of wins happening seconds from enrage that could make or break the fight. (if all 6 damage classes do an extra 8 that its 39000)
But yeah its nothing crazy but it does add up.
The biggest argument in favor of Det is that it is always helping you. It is only a matter of time until you are over geared for content where you can start throwing out, VIT, parry etc because it doesn't matter for the clear. T10 is already tanked in full STR and easily tanked in i90 hybrids, the same will happen for T11-13 its just a matter of time. -
11-08-2014, 06:37 PMSleighShield Oath PLD is the worst case scenario when looking at DET's benefits. It's the lowest DPS form of tanking, or of anything in the game really. If a fight allows you to use Sword Oath for part of it, or you have Storm's Eye getting put up, or if you were a WAR, that DET will translate into real damage a bit higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth