How the DF 'Withdraw' penalty SHOULD have been done

Right now, we have two situations:
1. I hit withdraw a few times, annoying other players and maybe wasting a minute of their time
2. I enter the trial roulette and get paired up with 2 ninjas who spent 2 hours in queue then I leave, leaving them without the means to complete the run unless someone joins in progress at 0/3 (unlikely)

Both assess the same penalty for some reason!

So here's how it should have worked, in 2 parts!:
-Every time you hit withdraw, you get an increasing time penalty until you can go again (from 0, 1, 3, 5, 10 minutes). This decays over the course of a few hours. This prevents spamming which was the problem!
-You finally add another checkbox to ONLY search for in-progress runs. This means you don't have to spam anymore!

So simple, yet.. they choose the bludgeon method to unfairly punish players. How are all those ninjas sitting in queue for over an hour feeling about this now? Oops you went to grab a drink after sitting in queue for so long now you have a strike.

i like this. if the punishment increases with each withdraw or failed response, then this is fair. and it will still get rid of the trolling. and i also like the option to only search for in-progress. i don't look for in-progress myself, but it's still a good idea.

+1

You CAN'T add an "In Progress OnlY' box or those NINs would have even LONGER queues because tanks and healers would have a tendency to pick In Progress over a new run. You simply can't further dilute the DF pool that way.

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Originally Posted by Ellatrix

You finally add another checkbox to ONLY search for in-progress runs. This means you don't have to spam anymore!

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This had been discussed before, it is not going to happen. They did not add the in progress box to enable people to get full credit for completing a partial DR. They added it to help people who had someone leave or DC. Why should you get a button that basically says "I want full credit without doing a full dungeon only"? How many people do you think (mainly tanks) would select anything but in-progress only?

I have a better idea, if you don't want a penalty and do not have time for the possibility of having to do a full run don't queue. It's hard enough for DPS to get a party without half the tanks/healers hitting the in progress only button.

And before you say it. Yes Warrior is my main, and yes I usually DR as it. Just my two cents. I do however agree with your increasing penalty suggestion.

i don't really understand how you would get full credit. if you mean roulette's, then simply force disable that option for roulette's. otherwise, i don't see any other way to get full credit.

in any case, the option is just that... optional. i don't see how it could cause any harm. and it would make it easier to get someone from your FC or LS in to your in-progress. i can't count how many times i've asked for help from a tank or healer, but for them to not be able to get in. of course, it would be much nicer to just simply be able to invite an outside player to your in-progress instance.

In-progress is pretty poor for low level runs anyway, since you want it for XP, so you want to be there for the entire run. Unless you're working on animus/novus or whatever, then yea you want to jump to the end, which should be fine since being forced to run low level dungeon for a weapon is dumb anyway, and that population is still split evenly across all classes.

lv50 dungeons tanks/healers aren't going to sit only in progress because then you're gonna end up with a queue that could take 30min. They will go to the one that takes less time, which will end up being mostly new runs. Also the tomestones are split between bosses now and not all at the end, so you only get partial credit for a partial run.

The penalty as it is implemented it just fine. I am happy to see that I not clicking commence 15 times in the next 10 minutes to get into an instance. It is night and day the difference it has been. The people whining about it are the DF abusers trying to fish for god knows what.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

i don't really understand how you would get full credit. if you mean roulette's, then simply force disable that option for roulette's. otherwise, i don't see any other way to get full credit.

in any case, the option is just that... optional. i don't see how it could cause any harm. and it would make it easier to get someone from your FC or LS in to your in-progress. i can't count how many times i've asked for help from a tank or healer, but for them to not be able to get in. of course, it would be much nicer to just simply be able to invite an outside player to your in-progress instance.

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DF depends on people from all roles queueing up, if half the tanks or healers choose in-progress only then the queue times would double for any player who would queue for a full run.

So yes, your option does cause harm.

And with this I disagree with OP's second proposal.

So far it appears to me this change is only annoying the people who were farming for in-progress runs. Working as intended, I would presume.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

DF depends on people from all roles queueing up, if half the tanks or healers choose in-progress only then the queue times would double for any player who would queue for a full run.

So yes, your option does cause harm.

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okay. well that makes sense. thank you for not being a jerk and actually pointing out the harm it could cause. we can't ALL be bright ones! lol :P


either way, i still think the first idea for the lock-out is good. i don't mind a punishment system. and certainly do like having much more reliable queues. however, i think the punishment is just too much. it makes me feel like i can never change my mind about something at the last second. it feels way to controlling and restrictive. almost like the game is being ran by communists.


P.S. it's not my option/idea. i merely gave it a +1.

I actually thought the lockout would have been like OP mentioned, at least 5 mins and increasing (excluding the decay over time, a daily reset is just fine), with a 30 mins lockout you can see people going offline for 5 mins once they enter the instance to get vote-kicked, or just afk there.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

You CAN'T add an "In Progress OnlY' box or those NINs would have even LONGER queues because tanks and healers would have a tendency to pick In Progress over a new run. You simply can't further dilute the DF pool that way.

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

This had been discussed before, it is not going to happen. They did not add the in progress box to enable people to get full credit for completing a partial DR. They added it to help people who had someone leave or DC. Why should you get a button that basically says "I want full credit without doing a full dungeon only"? How many people do you think (mainly tanks) would select anything but in-progress only?

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Originally Posted by Alukah

DF depends on people from all roles queueing up, if half the tanks or healers choose in-progress only then the queue times would double for any player who would queue for a full run.

So yes, your option does cause harm..

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Sure you can. There are only going to be so many "in progress" runs available at any given time. If every tank only clicks "in progress only" then they're going to be stuck waiting around in line with each other until some other tank gets kicked or drops out. If there are too many, then they're going to end up waiting in the queue longer than if they just selected "join" normally. The other thing about "in progress" is that the wait time would be very unpredictable. They risk waiting longer, only to end up stuck in a 0/3 dungeon so they've actually lost time. And to make sure that they can't just fish for 2/3 dungeons, they should hide the actual progress, IE: just show 0/1 no matter what (as ST/CT already do).

Problem is, many players WILL NOT queue for certain categories as is. However, if they were guaranteed some kind of in progress run, they might be enticed to do so. High Level & Low Level come to mind (I won't touch either on my tank or healer unless I'm bored, rewards aren't nearly good enough). This effect will likely create enough competition to discourage too many who currently are ok with running full dungeons to switch to "in progress only", further minimizing any effect on the queue.

And the final thing to consider is this will draw some DPS away from being in the full dungeon queues. This means, as a DPS, there will be a little less competition for full dungeon queues, further minimizing any detrimental effect on the queue.

However, it will get ALL of the in progress fishers out of any queue you will be in (assuming you are ok with full dungeons). This means the only other problematic queue participants are trolls, and for them you can hand down a much milder penalty because you just need to prevent them from spamming the queue (like 10min lockout and penalty decays after 1-2hrs). It also should be fairly easy to automatically identify trollish behavior (multiple queue/withdraw that occurs daily or something like that). They're already doing it for RMT, so I can't imagine it should be too much of a stretch to flag any repeat offenders and hand out disciplinary actions to those few.

So, yes, i think adding "in progress only" would be a MUCH better solution than what they currently have.

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Originally Posted by Alukah

with a 30 mins lockout you can see people going offline for 5 mins once they enter the instance to get vote-kicked, or just afk there.

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That's the point. Eventually people will stop doing this, because it would take less time to just complete the instance and get what they came for (loot, gil, roulette bonuses, Light, whatever) than it would be to act entitled and waste their time, and their party's patience.