Can we end this?

I think im gonna throw up if i see another "PLZ CLONE FFXI" thread. You would think that after being ignored for so many months pple would get it but they don't.

So let me put it this way. FFXI is made by SE, it is owned by SE and since the game is currently online and SE has no intention of shutting it down, well it is also generation income for SE.

So with FFXIV being aimed at being the next WOW(targets the masses, casuals and hardcore alike) why would anyone in their right state of mind want to turn FFXIV into a FFXI clone? Not only would it kill FFXI but it would go against FFXIV's goals and turn it into a niche and SE can only hope to get 250k players if they're lucky.

FFXI is available to play so stop asking the devs to turn this into FFXI-2 just because ur too cheap to pay a monthly fee.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I think im gonna throw up if i see another "PLZ CLONE FFXI" thread.

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That's pretty funny since you just made a thread about cloning FFXI. /facepalm

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I think im gonna throw up if i see another "PLZ CLONE FFXI" thread. You would think that after being ignored for so many months pple would get it but they don't.

So let me put it this way. FFXI is made by SE, it is owned by SE and since the game is currently online and SE has no intention of shutting it down, well it is also generation income for SE.

So with FFXIV being aimed at being the next WOW(targets the masses, casuals and hardcore alike) why would anyone in their right state of mind want to turn FFXIV into a FFXI clone? Not only would it kill FFXI but it would go against FFXIV's goals and turn it into a niche and SE can only hope to get 250k players if they're lucky.

FFXI is available to play so stop asking the devs to turn this into FFXI-2 just because ur too cheap to pay a monthly fee.

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Nobody is asking for FFXI-2, they are asking that SE take the good, working ideas that were in XI and many titles beforehand aswell(for most). XIV will never become XI even if SE copied 90% of the features and stuff from that game. Do you know why? because its a different world, different story, differed races in a way, Different lore(guess this counts as story). If the devs continue down this road and implement some good feaures that the original team threw out cause of people like you crying about "(game) clones" every 2 minutes, this game would be able to pull in the masses.

XI was only this way due to the inability to solo effeciently and being forced to rely on people to aid you. Not because it had "X Feature" or "Y Feature" which is what most of these threads have been about.

I think its pretty obvious that this game isn't going in the same direction as FFXI

Nah, you got me doing that already. What with your lovely personality and all your experience with the game.

End this thread?

{Yes, Please}

"Let's Go Fly a Kite.. UP to the highest heights"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g89NxTTycxc

You're ranting about rants

It seems like they're trying to take the good things about XI and streamline a few of the more aggravating parts and pull in some influence from the better parts of other games.
Like an actual videogame sequel.

I appreciate that they where trying to make something completely original, but what's the point of just throwing away the things people appreciated about the original? Take those ideas and expand on them while introducing new concepts and features.

Take the Banjo Kazooie series for example. The first sequel was so great because they took the best parts of the original and built on them while introducing new gameplay mechanics and environments. Nuts and Bolts was rejected by fans of the series because it threw away most of what made the series enjoyable in the first place.

Now this is more of a spiritual successor than a sequel, but even then the concept of expanding gameplay still applies, especially in a series with set elements such as Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by BeePee

End this thread?

{Yes, Please}

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This~~~~~~!

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Originally Posted by Ryndael

This~~~~~~!

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Nothing but conflict could possibly come from this thread. Please lock/delete.

Cry me a river. I like Fields of Valor!

This game needs to be FFXI so it wont be bad

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I think im gonna throw up if i see another "PLZ CLONE FFXI" thread. You would think that after being ignored for so many months pple would get it but they don't.

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Here, I'll supply you the bucket. *Hands Onidemon a bucket*

Guess what they just announced that was a feature from FFXI?

The Ability to set homepoints.

Bindpoints is nothing new to MMORPGs, but the current concept introduced is exactly like XI's concept.

You may commence the puking now.

There's nothing wrong with taking the good aspects of FFXI and putting them into the game, especially since they won't majorly change things. So no, I don't think we need to end this.

Let us guess what he ate for lunch based on the colours, shall we?

/sigh

I just don't care anymore OP. I think I actually feel pity for you. I hate these forums if only for all the constant bickering and whining.

FF XIV will never appeal to the masses. Square tried to target this game at a new audience but mostly got FF XI players. I don't think it is unreasonable to at least expect a game equal to or better than FF XI, i mean it was in development for years. Players aren't asking for a clone of FF XI, they just want XIV to be as good.

I disagree completely.

When i see a long awaited and highly anticipated game failing due to an unsuccessful attempt of re-inventing the wheel, i personally dont fancy sitting back quietly and watch the game turn into a pile of rubble because people like you want to discourage the rest of us to ask to bring the goodness back into this game, even if it means cloning FFXI.
There is no doubt amongst the vast majority of players who experienced FFXI that it was simply an amazing if not the best MMO experience we have had and as such many of us jumped on the FFXIV wagon with hopes of having an even better experience.

I for one initially was anticipating a much better game than XI, my hopes were really that high, and i as the rest of us here was looking forward to a new game with refreshing new ideas, i believed they could surprass XI with their experience, unfortunately, i think it's clear this was not the case atleast as far as Tanaka has taken us and where i and many others stand right now is.. clone XI or atleast the good parts of it is certainly better than watching the game fall into ruin. I think it's clear also that a huge amount of players have left the game and a few members opinions like yours does not reflect the masses whether in or off the forums, so have some humility and respect other people's wishes for this game to succeed as it's predecessor by bringing whatever is good from SE's past into this game even if it's your nightmare XI. Perhaps it's noteworthy to remind you that by SE's decision, many changes have and are still taking effect now where they are are more or less cloning features of XI, why? because it worked, and i sure hope more of it will come through.
I will stress the obvious fact that XI fans aren't actually asking for a complete clone of XI, but something of similar standard at the very least, offering an experience atleast as enjoyable as XI. This isn't about cloning, i'm sure no one wants to play in the same areas or have the exact same battle mechanics or skills and abilities. All people welcome change, as long as it's good and hopefully better.

To give credit where it's due, there surely are elements/aspects of this game that excel over XI and attract many of us, such as graphics and more importantly the casual play factor, but unfortunately a whole other lot are by far not up to standards, so i personally hope to continue bringing to attention whatever good existed in XI that can help improve this game and have it reach far and beyond XI and i hope the rest on the forums will do the same whether its ideas from XI or any other game for that matter or even their own imagination (goblin airmen?).

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Originally Posted by Gennosuke

To give credit where it's due, there surely are elements/aspects of this game that excel over XI and attract many of us, such as graphics and more importantly the casual play factor.

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Hopefully this isn't too offtopic, but I wanted to add to this not all of us (myself at least) aren't too excited with the casual play factor. At least as far as easy, short or small group oriented play.

Some of my best memories of xi were overcoming hard missions or bosses that took us many tries, deaths, days farming items or gil to buy gear, only to fail over and over again (early cop? lol) until we beat it. While hard content may sound bland to some, the feeling of accomplishment was all the more for having to have worked harder for it. After they nerfed the cop missions, I don't think it was quite as interesting personally.

I hope they add some rather difficult content to xiv.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

Some of my best memories of xi were overcoming hard missions or bosses that took us many tries, deaths, days farming items or gil to buy gear, only to fail over and over again (early cop? lol) until we beat it. While hard content may sound bland to some, the feeling of accomplishment was all the more for having to have worked harder for it. After they nerfed the cop missions, I don't think it was quite as interesting personally.

I hope they add some rather difficult content to xiv.

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I agree with you that challenge is what makes a game fun and certainly what made XI fun too, as with the examples you mentioned. Casual doesn't necessarily have to conflict with a challenge focused and party oriented game for that matter although unfortunately it does in the current state the game is in (and i blame that on the flawed Armoury system). I believe that SE was aiming for a balance with this game and i like to believe they can still do it.
As for challenging content, i would think they will bring it on sooner or later, personally i would prefer job/subjob system to kick in, i think that would solve alot of the issues we have and would set a limitation and a standard level where content can be equally challenging for all and SE wouldn't have to worry so much about discrepancies or balance between casuals and non casuals.

Otherwise, I think the moment they seriously address the Armoury system to cater for all sorts of players, then, again, we can hopefully have harmony where everyone can be challenged in the game at equal levels.
Having said that though, they do have plans of implementing some limitations on Armoury system in the future and i think that will be a step forward in the direction you suggested.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I think im gonna throw up if i see another "PLZ CLONE FFXI" thread.

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I'm going to throw up if I have to see another "Don't clone FFXI" thread with horrible grammar.
js.

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Originally Posted by Aldwin

Hopefully this isn't too offtopic, but I wanted to add to this not all of us (myself at least) aren't too excited with the casual play factor. At least as far as easy, short or small group oriented play.

Some of my best memories of xi were overcoming hard missions or bosses that took us many tries, deaths, days farming items or gil to buy gear, only to fail over and over again (early cop? lol) until we beat it. While hard content may sound bland to some, the feeling of accomplishment was all the more for having to have worked harder for it. After they nerfed the cop missions, I don't think it was quite as interesting personally.

I hope they add some rather difficult content to xiv.

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The hardcore stuff is coming, just gotta be patient. I'm sure it takes them a lot longer to create/revamp hardcore stuffs than it did for the small raids that we have now. You gotta remember that FFXI was mostly hardcore content, and that casual content wasn't even added until like a couple years ago.

the real problem in ffxiv is the ffxi player, SE made ffxiv for the mases not for ffxi fans that are little, they wanna ffxiv for wow killer.

i want diferent game not wow clone and ffxi clone sincerely

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Originally Posted by odette

the real problem in ffxiv is the ffxi player, SE made ffxiv for the mases not for ffxi fans that are little, they wanna ffxiv for wow killer.

i want diferent game not wow clone and ffxi clone sincerely

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Hahah, no.

The real problem with FFXIV is it's underdeveloped, using a serverside interface that requires quite a lot of Engine and Server tweaks to even fix certain issues and implement certain features and it launched with a lack of content. How are FFXI players the ones at fault? We didn't make this game horrible.

Though if you were to pick up FFXI and pick up FFXIV..which game do you think is in a better condition? XIV may be new but so is the game Rusty Hearts and even that is leaps and bounds beyond FFXIV even with set character choices.

I think everyone can rest assure that sometime soon SE will bring out a FFXI clone. It's not going to be this game but THEY KNOW it'll make them money. It might be their new secret MMO i've been hearing about.

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Originally Posted by Visch

This game needs to be FFXI so it wont be bad

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You know what's funny about your signature? The director of that show (1996-1998), Craig McCraken, is married to Lauren Faust, who is currently the director of the latest My Little Pony series. And the both worked on cartoons such as The Powerpuff Girls and Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends.

On topic...I imagine you'll see more influence from MMOs like WoW than FFXI in the future, but without losing the FFXIV flavor. Basic concepts and ideas are not what makes the game. It's their implementation and execution which defines the game.

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Originally Posted by Mimmo

You're ranting about rants

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You're noting his rant about rants! I am ranting about you noting his rant about rants! Will someone PLEASE think of the CHILDREN?!

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Hahah, no.

The real problem with FFXIV is it's underdeveloped, using a serverside interface that requires quite a lot of Engine and Server tweaks to even fix certain issues and implement certain features and it launched with a lack of content. How are FFXI players the ones at fault? We didn't make this game horrible.

Though if you were to pick up FFXI and pick up FFXIV..which game do you think is in a better condition? XIV may be new but so is the game Rusty Hearts and even that is leaps and bounds beyond FFXIV even with set character choices.

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<3 Rusty Hearts! My fish in a barrel Angela clone is running around with a cardboard box on her head with a kitty cat face drawn on it!

Kitty Box ^_^

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I think im gonna throw up if i see another "PLZ CLONE FFXI" thread. You would think that after being ignored for so many months pple would get it but they don't.

So let me put it this way. FFXI is made by SE, it is owned by SE and since the game is currently online and SE has no intention of shutting it down, well it is also generation income for SE.

So with FFXIV being aimed at being the next WOW(targets the masses, casuals and hardcore alike) why would anyone in their right state of mind want to turn FFXIV into a FFXI clone? Not only would it kill FFXI but it would go against FFXIV's goals and turn it into a niche and SE can only hope to get 250k players if they're lucky.

FFXI is available to play so stop asking the devs to turn this into FFXI-2 just because ur too cheap to pay a monthly fee.

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I don't think anyone wants a FFXI clone but they certainly didn't expect FFXIV to be a step back from XI either. Implementing features which go with the final fantasy lore (airships, home points, materia, chocobos) doesn't turn XIV into a clone but more accurately into a final fantasy game.

Also, you need to let go of the WoW killer mentality, it's a totally different fan base.

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Originally Posted by odette

the real problem in ffxiv is the ffxi player, SE made ffxiv for the mases not for ffxi fans that are little, they wanna ffxiv for wow killer.

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And yet it accomplishes neither.

If the problem really is FFXI players, FFXI players would be the only ones avoiding XIV like the plague.

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Originally Posted by odette

the real problem in ffxiv is the ffxi player, SE made ffxiv for the mases not for ffxi fans that are little, they wanna ffxiv for wow killer.

If the problem really is FFXI players, FFXI players would be the only ones avoiding XIV like the plague.

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Ohh ok! That's why they used Mithra Galka Elvaan Hume and Tarutaru races! So that the game would be specifically repulsive to FFXI players!

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Originally Posted by Keith_Dragoon

Nobody is asking for FFXI-2, they are asking that SE take the good, working ideas that were in XI and many titles beforehand aswell(for most). XIV will never become XI even if SE copied 90% of the features and stuff from that game. Do you know why? because its a different world, different story, differed races in a way, Different lore(guess this counts as story). If the devs continue down this road and implement some good feaures that the original team threw out cause of people like you crying about "(game) clones" every 2 minutes, this game would be able to pull in the masses.

XI was only this way due to the inability to solo effeciently and being forced to rely on people to aid you. Not because it had "X Feature" or "Y Feature" which is what most of these threads have been about.

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No, quite a lot of people are asking for FFXI-HD.

Threads like this are why we can't have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

No, quite a lot of people are asking for FFXI-HD.

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Yes exactly. All the FFXI player who left the game are now begging SE to turn this into FFXI. Yes i do get the part where FFXI had some nice features and that it could help FFXIV if they implemented them... i agree to a certain extent but i also think that FFXIV should be it's own game with it's own unique features. It's not because FFXIV failed with this broken systems where they tried to be unique that we should forget all about that and go and copy FFXI.

I believe that with the right ideas, feedback and work we can turn this game into something great and that it will be FFXIV all around, with it's own flavors and features.


What i disagree with and what is pissing me off is threads that ask for every single feature FFXI had to be implemented in FFXIV. They list every single aspect about the game and then claim that this is what will save FFXIV. It's stupid in more then 1 way. FFXI does not currently have or ever had the player base that SE is trying to get with FFXIV.

Use your head, make up some cool ideas and features and then ask the devs to consider them. don't fall into nostalgia and ask for the past with HD graphics, cuz even tho you might have enjoyed something a lot, it doesnt mean it will appeal to the million of casuals and gamers SE wants into this game.

It's hard to take you seriously when you imply FFXI, a highly successful MMO with solid subscription numbers, was niche.
Maybe compared to WoW. Speaking of which, this game will never be the next WoW. It missed that boat a long time ago, and to be honest, I doubt the FF name even has what it takes to draw in the kind of subs that WoW has. WoW is an accident; it achieved some kind of critical mass, it sparked an unexpected social phenomenon and there's no way to replicate that. It is the facebook of MMOs.

It's time to come down to reality. A lot of the creative ideas in FFXIV failed and now have to be replaced with ideas which we know work just to make people reconsider playing. FFXI is a good example of what works and what doesn't and is closer to FFXIV mechanically than other MMOs like WoW and LotRO. This doesn't mean FFXI-2, it just means fixing the stuff that sucks by using working ideas from FFXI (which usually aren't even exclusively FFXI's ideas), not replacing the heart of the game.

I browse these forums fairly regularly and haven't seen any threads about turning this game into FFXI-2.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

It's hard to take you seriously when you imply FFXI, a highly successful MMO with solid subscription numbers, was niche.
Maybe compared to WoW. Speaking of which, this game will never be the next WoW. It missed that boat a long time ago, and to be honest, I doubt the FF name even has what it takes to draw in the kind of subs that WoW has. WoW is an accident; it achieved some kind of critical mass, it sparked an unexpected social phenomenon and there's no way to replicate that. It is the facebook of MMOs.

It's time to come down to reality. A lot of the creative ideas in FFXIV failed and now have to be replaced with ideas which we know work just to make people reconsider playing. FFXI is a good example of what works and what doesn't and is closer to FFXIV mechanically than other MMOs like WoW and LotRO. This doesn't mean FFXI-2, it just means fixing the stuff that sucks by using working ideas from FFXI (which usually aren't even exclusively FFXI's ideas), not replacing the heart of the game.

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It is harder to take you seriously when you didn't know FFXI was and is a niche market. It managed to get 5mil players at it's best but that was when it started out and there was barely any competition and it was the only mmo to come out for the very succesful PS2. Once WOW and other mmos came out that number went down very quickly and FFXI never got more then 500k players. It was succesful during it's time only because it didn't have much competition and now it is a game that appeals to very few hardcore gamers which is what a niche is.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

It is harder to take you seriously when you didn't know FFXI was and is a niche market. It managed to get 5mil players at it's best but that was when it started out and there was barely any competition and it was the only mmo to come out for the very succesful PS2. Once WOW and other mmos came out that number went down very quickly and FFXI never got more then 500k players. It was succesful during it's time only because it didn't have much competition and now it is a game that appeals to very few hardcore gamers which is what a niche is.

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500k players is very, very good for an MMO (and actually FFXI broke a million at its peak). You seem to be basing your value of success on WoW. You're right that it is less appealing now, but that's to be expected because it's old and has newer competition. That doesn't mean that the core mechanics of the game are bad or that the game is niche. It's just getting to the end of its expiration date, as everything does.

I highly doubt FFXIV will ever be as successful.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

It is harder to take you seriously when you didn't know FFXI was and is a niche market.

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MMORPGs in general were and still is a niche market. FPSs and Sandbox games (Farmville) are what's mainstream these days.

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Once WOW and other mmos came out that number went down very quickly and FFXI never got more then 500k players.

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Incorrect, you hate FFXI we get it but stop spreading lies. XI didn't "go down very quickly subscription wise" when WoW and other MMOs came out, it lost subscription numbers but once the 360 version came out it shot right back up and stabalized around 450-500k for years. Only until 2008-2009 did the subscription number drop off.

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Originally Posted by Tigercub

500k players is very, very good for an MMO (and actually FFXI broke a million at its peak). You seem to be basing your value of success on WoW. You're right that it is less appealing now, but that's to be expected because it's old and has newer competition. That doesn't mean that the core mechanics of the game are bad or that the game is niche. It's just getting to the end of its expiration date, as everything does.

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I remember seeing a gaming magazine back then who claimed FFXI had reached a 5 million players base. But the issue here is that FFXI does not appeal at all to casuals which are the biggest part of the market. As for the hardcore it is something like 30-40%. The game is focused on you spending 1h looking for a party and then grinding 1 type of monster for maybe days to get 5-10 levels. then move to a new area and repeat. The type of gameplay appeals to very few players.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

I remember seeing a gaming magazine back then who claimed FFXI had reached a 5 million players base. But the issue here is that FFXI does not appeal at all to casuals which are the biggest part of the market.

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A lot of the shooters out currently aren't for the casual friendly playerbase -- Halo was largely considered the casual shooter, but games like CoD and Battlefield have multiple million player base (let's not forget CSS) so no the biggest market is both casual and hardcore a like.

XI had 2 million + characters but only ever reached around 1.1 million subscription base. You never spent "days" grinding 1 type of monster to gain 5-10 levels, even back in 2003-2006, you spent hours max unless your party was performing badly. It only ever slowed down in the 50s which was nearing end-game. You spread a lot of misinformation to try to paint XI in a worse light.