Paladin 2.4 BiS?

Looking at what we have I was thinking of going for something along the lines of this but maybe throw in a few crafted accessories once we figure out the hp cap for the new content.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O3MI

This is based of the idea of the new acc cap being 545+ if its not I can switch around a few things and take it down to 536ish for a 11 det increase.


This is just an ideal, BiS doesn't work unless you have all the pieces. This is just for later when gear is within reach.

That late into content you'll more then likely be using STR or hybrid accessories.

The left side is all correct though.

Is it? Parry isn't the worst thing in the world.... not saying its the best but you are looking at a difference of 424 parry vs 662 parry at max parry build.

Seems like the 662 would mitigate a ton more, obviously not obtainable with STR accessories just food for thought.


I feel like this is worth discussion again, I am well aware of past anti-parry argument threads.

But the numbers are getting a lot higher. And yes I know parry adversely affects block rate.

But a thread not too long ago proved that its still more damage mitigation than avoiding it.

Block rate affects parry. If FCOB is like SCOB then yes parry is bad. If turns 11-13 have crazy constant damage then it might be worth stacking. For people that don't do coil they shouldn't worry about parry at all.


Edit: My parry was at 646 in 2.3.....so no its definitely not worth it. My 646 build sucked for all content. I'm not ruling out a blend based on Turns 11-13 but fulling stacking parry is not worth the returns.

I am pretty sure you are right, Im wondering if there is a parry number to shoot for? I dont see turn 10-13 magically having a bunch of constant damage. Just wanted to bring up the possibility of it being better this patch.

Can hit 700 parry depending on you nexus. I have 2 sets that put me over 700 parry with the calc.

I guess to make an informed decision we need to know the damage mitigation difference between 400 parry and 700 parry. And then look at the stats that you could have other than 300 parry. To determine if its really worth it. I have a feeling it may not be.

Well I think I saw somewhere that it takes around 100 points of parry to make a 1% chance of parrying something, so I can maybe see parry becoming a much more useful stat in the future but I don't believe it will be in this patch or the next.

I personally prefer the slight increase in dps over a off-chance of parrying for a slight mitigation.

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Originally Posted by TrivariumOri

Well I think I saw somewhere that it takes around 100 points of parry to make a 1% chance of parrying something, so I can maybe see parry becoming a much more useful stat in the future but I don't believe it will be in this patch or the next.

I personally prefer the slight increase in dps over a off-chance of parrying for a slight mitigation.

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That's way off, it's roughly 13-14 parry per 1% (or roughly .078 % per point). We don't know exact numbers but those are close enough idea.

But your second sentence kinda nails the crux of it, it's just preference. Very slight dps increase or slight survival increase. I prefer the latter but there is no right or wrong answer. The secondary stats are just kinda crap in general and it usually comes down to what piece of gear you can get that has the highest ilevel(and lets you hit acc cap, of course).

13-14 per 1% can't be correct. At 646 parry my rate was 17%. Even considering using HA shield that's no where near 13-14 per 1%.

I really dont remember since its been so long, but i thought it was more along the lines of 30-40 per 1%.

Wild guess don't quote me on that.

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

13-14 per 1% can't be correct. At 646 parry my rate was 17%. Even considering using HA shield that's no where near 13-14 per 1%.

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Paladin is not a good candidate to perform testing on parry returns, since blocking takes priority and will artificially deflate the parry numbers.
Lets assume that Paladin and Warrior get the same % chance returns for a given amount of Parry. Since Warrior can only parry, they will see the full rate.

That said, the base value for parry, offhand, is 341 at lvl 50 for a tank. So (646-341)/13.5 = 22.6% chance above the base value, whatever that is.
However your observed 17% is really attacks that were not blocked, but were parried. You would have also seen some attacks which were blocked, but could have "potentially" been parried had the block failed... Warrior does not have this extra probability to deal with.
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Did some testing on War.
523 parry w/ gear. Base parry at 50 is 341.
Out of 434 attacks that landed, 97 were parried, which is 22.6%
If we go by an average of 13.5 parry for 1%, given my 22.6% observed rate, the base value should be about 9.1%, um, I'll test that in a bit.
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And MORE data!
At 341 parry, so no parry on any gear, vs lvl 5 Yarzon Feeders... cause they were around...
472 hits, 46 parried, which gives us a rate of 9.746%, pretty close to what I calculated before, though I guess it may be closer to 14 points for 1%, rather than 13.5 or so... Anyway, the math is good enough.

That said, with NO parry on your gear, you have a ~9.7% chance to parry for -25% (assuming normal STR gear), which is 2.43% mitigation in the long run.
With my 523 parry, I saw a 22.6% chance, so that's 5.65% mitigation.
Lets say I have 700 parry, off a 341 base, at a rate of 1% chance for every 14 points, and reduce incoming by 25%... That would be 9.7%+(700-341)/14% = 35.34% chance, and 25% reduction on parry gives us 8.84% mitigation.

So NO parry is a baseline of 2.43%, a TON of parry is 8.84%... That is an effective gain of... 1-(1-.0884)/(1-.0243) = 6.57% less incoming melee damage!

Good, bad, worth it?
For tanks, especially Paladins if you consider Flash's inability to crit, the next best thing after parry would most likely be Det, then Crit. So if we drop ALL the parry gear and get Det and Crit instead, focusing on Det where possible, will that increase our damage by more than 6.57%? To at least "break" even in terms of damage gained vs mitigation lost.

#MathMan(MathTank)HathSpoken!

I think your base value doesn't make sense.

341/13.5 = 25%


which if we assume thats true you would see 1/4 of all attacks parried as a warrior. And increasing to 682 would take you to a theoretical 1/2 of all attacks parried.

Which would probably be the max parry you should ever shoot for, unless you want to go for 1023 parry and 3/4 of all attacks are parried.

Warrior only

Damage gained vs mitigation lost are two very different things.

Parry is used for mob auto attacks which require very little healing. Big attacks will be mitigated by Abilites.

Parry leads to over healing more then anything.

Damage always helps.

DET is by far the best stat for tanks.

People keep saying that parry is only for auto attacks but I'd like to assert that this is untrue. Last night, I parried Resonance on T11.

I do see the merits in the three sub stats and feel like role as tank, boss, and whether it is on farm or progression make stat weights situational at best.

Best thing to do in my opinion is flexibly swap in gear as required.

I know the argument is that big hits are compensated by heals and cooldowns but in progression its very rarely clean and a little bit of RNJesus goes a long way.

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Originally Posted by Belandrus

I know the argument is that big hits are compensated by heals and cooldowns but in progression its very rarely clean and a little bit of RNJesus goes a long way.

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Progression is a different scenario altogether. I 100% agree. I wore Parry gear in T10 this week, I won't next week. Same will happen with T11, tonight I'll be in Parry gear. Once the fight is figured out it is no longer aiding the clear.

Things could be different for T12,13 as there is zero discussion on those turns yet. (I highly doubt it though)

Ok, I did some build testing on Ariyala, utilising a best Parry/Acc combo + food in order to hit the t12 acc rating of 550 that Bluegartr have reported on their thread and this is what I came up with: Here
ends up with:
Acc: 553
Vit: 731 (9710 HP)
Parry: 643
Det: 238
Crit: 409

Until we get reports of t13, I am going to continue basing numbers on 550, given that both t8/9 share an acc cap, though obviously I could be wrong.

Bluegartr post

Also, as a point on the parry not being useful in non-progression content, I present this post from this forum: Parry in FCoB it appears that parry is indeed going to be more useful in t12 than previously.

No matter what anyone tells you about Parry or DPS gear, always listen to your healers. The best advice I have read on here came from 1 healer and he mentioned something along these lines:

"No matter the end, we either look out for BIG damage (WHM) or preemptively wait out damage (SCH).
I'd rather see our tanks doing a small amount of additional DPS to help push phases,
then to have to wait to heal them."
-paraphrased from some healer here on the forums.

As for your set-up, damn near nailed what I had planned out. The only difference is that I will, hopefully, be using the STR DPS wrists and neck.

Everyone has obviously missed something. For Roe PLDs, the best in slot shield is a Lalafell PLD, and best in slot weapon is a Lalafell WAR. Does not work with smaller races.

Note: I'm not going to knock any of the Parry builds, I just feel like a Det/Crit build might suit different play styles and give players actual options instead of the usual 1:1 list everyone and their mom has.

But anyways if players are going to go for the Det/Crit build like OP we need to move away from the Parry food(popto/fingers) and start looking at the acc food (aka toad legs and catfish) to make up for our gear selections while keeping the vit.

Here's my attempt at a build: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/O7S3

Also note I am no theorycrafter/min maxer. I came up with this within 10 minutes. Feel free to give suggestions/change anything.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

I think your base value doesn't make sense.

341/13.5 = 25%


which if we assume thats true you would see 1/4 of all attacks parried as a warrior. And increasing to 682 would take you to a theoretical 1/2 of all attacks parried.

Which would probably be the max parry you should ever shoot for, unless you want to go for 1023 parry and 3/4 of all attacks are parried.

Warrior only

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The base value of 13.5 points of parry per percent of parry rate does not imply that at 341 parry will equal 25% though it may seem that way at first glance. Since 341 parry is the "base" amount at lvl50 then values below this are not relevant, but if you work the slope back to 0 parry you will find that the % of attacks parried at 0 parry is actually about -14.3% (of course not valid below 341). Since it is not 0 you cannot ignore the intercept in your equation. This is implied in Kenji1134's values but not shown explicitly.

In other words, you can get a much more accurate representation of the scaling with: (%) Attacks Parried = .0706 * ParryValue - 14.33

You can plug in the parry values Kenji1134 has provided and find his results of: 341 parry gives 9.75% attacks parried, 523 parry gives 22.6% attacks parried, and with 682 parry (assuming the scaling holds) gives 33.8% attacks parried. These are for a Warrior or as a percentage of a Paladin's unblocked attacks.

Also, another thing to note is that as strength increases then the amount mitigated by parry also increases (at 445 strength the amount parried becomes 26% instead of 25%), and the value of parry will increase at each strength tier due to this. The difference between max and min parry can actually make a difference and maybe even more so in the future, but depends on the fight as many have noted. I'm not saying just stack parry always, but saying another secondary stat is always better is simply not true for all situations. The extremely small amount of damage a main tank is doing at critical dps periods may make just about as much difference as the amount mitigated by parry at key moments, and a lot more attacks can actually be parried than many realize.

Gotcha makes sense, thx for explaining. Also awhile back the idea of STR parry tiers was ruled out. The % displayed is rounded down. So every point of STR gives you a .xxx% more parry amount, its just not displayed until it reaches the next whole number.

But thanks for the % value for parry. Will help compare to dps increase gains vs avg physical damage mitigated.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Gotcha makes sense, thx for explaining. Also awhile back the idea of STR parry tiers was ruled out. The % displayed is rounded down. So every point of STR gives you a .xxx% more parry amount, its just not displayed until it reaches the next whole number.

But thanks for the % value for parry. Will help compare to dps increase gains vs avg physical damage mitigated.

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Oh, interesting. Thanks for the info about the strength tiers; so every increase in strength helps a bit with parry mitigation.

Yeah, even though you dont see it. But the "tiers" do technically let you know when you can expect a full % and gives a nice value to it.

Also going to focus on Det this patch, but might stash some parry gear, for 2.5..... no telling what will happen with DRK.

Je vais faire ce build: ffxiv.ariyala.com/O9Q6 Mais je vais simuler encore pour voir.

J'ai modifié un peu en supposant que le cap du dernier turn se situe à 555. http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OAEG

I can't see this being possible without melded gear? Highest I've got is 680 ish. Please post your 700 party set

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Originally Posted by Jesden

Ok, I did some build testing on Ariyala, utilising a best Parry/Acc combo + food in order to hit the t12 acc rating of 550 that Bluegartr have reported on their thread and this is what I came up with:

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Accuracy Caps:

T12 - 547
T13 - 558

I had a miss every 3rd attempt (on average) in T13 at 557. After 16 hours of T13 I didn't miss once at 558.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

I can't see this being possible without melded gear? Highest I've got is 680 ish. Please post your 700 party set

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703 is the highest without melded gear.

745 is the absolute current max.

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/OBPK

So I've been parsing my hybrid build. (i90 penta melds, Wootz penta melded) Puts me at 590 parry. My block rate and parry rate vary between 20-21%.

That fits into the ~13.5 parry per %. 590-341 = 249/13.5 = 18.4=9.75 = 28.15 80*28.15 = 22.52

I did about 10 t9s using the build and some attacks can't be parried so that supports the margin of error.

Going to use a different parry amount the next time we farm.