Coil and tomestone gear both I130?

Ty based Yoshida

(Minus the weapons of course.)

That's just like the soldiery vs High Allagan armor is though.

The poetic gear starts as i120, but you can upgrade it to 130 supposedly via an item that drops in Final Coil. I do agree that it is perfect though.

Seems to be exactly the same as soldiery with
Ironworks x of y being 120 and Augmented Ironworks x of y being 130.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

Ty based Yoshida

(Minus the weapons of course.)

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Augmented Ironworks is i130 and Ironworks is i120. It is the same as 2.2 with Weathered Masterworks being i100 and the unweathered versions being i110. Carbontwine(gear) and Carboncoat(accessories) are the enhancement materials this time.

Oh no, so begins the "we deserve more" chatter...

"WE DESERVE MOAR FOR BEING SO ELITE"

Plz make coil i131.

:)

I won't be able to get i130 gear until 2.5, considering the last tier of Crystal Tower will very likely drop the upgrade items.

Someday, I will find a static to run this stuff with.

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Originally Posted by Tsuwu

"WE DESERVE MOAR FOR BEING SO ELITE"

Plz make coil i131.

:)

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I honestly expect the "i130 SHOULDNT BE FOR COIL ONLY" before I hear the raiders complain. Plus this is better for raiders too. If you dont get your Final Coil drop then you can upgrade your poetic armor and be set.

This seems like a good setup. i120 is will be the "entry" level into final coil, then you earn the i130 through coil. Seems totally legit, not sure why elite-e-peen0rz raiders are concerned about this.

I'm just wondering how do you obtain the new tomes? Will it be the same system we have now, poetics drop from hunts and dungeons?

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Originally Posted by Tyrn

Seems to be exactly the same as soldiery with
Ironworks x of y being 120 and Augmented Ironworks x of y being 130.

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AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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Originally Posted by Sheele

AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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Probably only accessable through coil, later on probably by other means.

Also:

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/up...dead-horse.gif

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Originally Posted by Sheele

AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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nothing in patch notes about aquisition. assuming the same drop method as 2.2-2.38: coil only at first, then slowly added to CT raid.

i would also note that as with all raid gear, its absolutely unnecessary to acquire them for any other reason than looking good unless you intend to go into the final coil. all these do is make your hits strike harder on the things you are probably already facerolling.

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Originally Posted by Sheele

AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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If everyone else is stuck then everyone else needs to git gud. Nothing wrong with a system that awards skilled players.

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Originally Posted by Sheele

AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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I mean, if you're not running coil, why do you even need the extra 10 ilvls? Everything outside of coil is basically face-roll.

There's no "us and them" mentality. The gear is there for those that are willing to get it.

The real complaint here is that it isn't served on a silver platter.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Maybe people would like to have/obtain the gear, because it's there and they'd like to have it? Does there have to be some specific reason?

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Then go and get it? It's there for you to take? It's a fricking mmorpg. There's loot and the devs put it somewhere and the players have to fight to that place and win to get it. The requirement is the SAME for everyone. If there's such a thing as 'grouping', your 'people' is just as much to blame as the people you're pointing fingers at for allowing it to exist.

Looks like the same system as 2.2 for the most part with name changes. Kinda disappointing but it worked well so I don't blame them. Upgrades for Ironworks will probably drop in World of Darkness in 2.5 and maybe able to be farmed by some other system, hope it's just not as bad as hunts.

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Originally Posted by Sheele

AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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Improve your skills, then find me again. - Wukong

This argument is pointless because it's going to happen till even after the end of FFXIV on others MMOs.

I'm a raider. I think Square Enix have a good middle ground with this system. They please the raiders in that they gear up the quickest and get raid-exclusive gear 3/4 months. They then give casual players a 3/4 month "catch-up" period, allowing not only casual players to catch up but also new players but also raiders want to switch job a smoother time progressing through the item levels. Raiders still end up with more gear and more class diversity available to them thanks to the extra drops they earn from Coil, but Casual players can also keep up with Item Levels as the game progresses.

Come 2.5 raiders will again start complaining then "there's no point to raid anymore" when the upgrade mats will be dropped in World of Darkness and via other means. Casual players will be happy they can get the upgrades from Coil via other means.

Look ahead to 3.0 and raiders will be happy again that there is raid-exclusive gear, casuals will be upset they can't get max item level without raiding.

And furthur to 3.1, whatever the 24 player raid is, raiders will again start complaining then "there's no point to raid anymore" when the upgrade mats will be dropped in <insert 24p raid here>.

And repeat, repeat, repeat, the never ending cycle.

Fact of the matter is raiders will still raid, casuals will still.... casual?

Because, hopefully, people are playing the game because they find it fun, not because gear treadmills.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

See, this is why a real discussion can never happen. Because dishonest people like you take what someone says, and so long as it doesn't fit your narrative, you twist it into distorted strawman arguments, completely misrepresenting what they're actually saying.

Sheele is not asking for anything on a silver platter.

They're asking for an alternative means to obtain something in-game, by doing other content than Coil. Asking for other means to *earn* something is quite the opposite of "asking for it on a silver platter".

That you can't distinguish between what they actually said and "asking for something on a silver platter" says far more about your own short-sightedness than it does them.

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Actually, Sheele is calling for a ilvl decrease to the new coil gear and wants it to be upgraded via dungeon grinding. Seems to me a real discussion can't happen here because you can't be bothered to read the posts you're addressing. I made the silver platter comment based on what the dissenters as a whole ask for, not Sheele specifically... because I actually read his/her post.

Again, no "us and them" mentality. This game rewards skilled players without bias, as does every other game out there. Paying a sub does not entitle a player to all of the content. Is that so difficult to understand?

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Originally Posted by Sheele

AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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You can be sick and tired, but Yoshida already said the items to upgrade poetic gear will drop from coil, so you will have to wait 3 months of gloating until then (either that or clear the final coil), then it will most likely be added to WoD in 2.5.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

They're asking for an alternative means to obtain something in-game, by doing other content than Coil. Asking for other means to *earn* something is quite the opposite of "asking for it on a silver platter".

That you can't distinguish between what they actually said and "asking for something on a silver platter" says far more about your own short-sightedness than it does them.

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Tell me then, with the game's current structure of content, what alternative do you suggest? If they have to make a new type of content to exist, would it be okay if it's just as hard as the most current and relevant coil at that time?

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Originally Posted by Sheele

AS long AS the upgrade items for the tome gear does NOT drop in coil, but is acquired by other means i am fine with this.
I am sick as tired of the 1% of the 20% of the population who even go in to coil, getting 3 months + to gloat while every one else
is stuck. If the tome gear is 120 to be upgraded to 130 via coil, them make the coil 3 gear 120 to be upgraded to 130 vie running
low level dungeon 1000 times per upgrade. The double standards need to stop.

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So you're rewriting the rules. Instead of easy => hard, we're going to do hard => easy. Who needs logic?

The system they're implementing, which is pretty much the same thing they implemented in 2.2, is actually one of the most logical things SE has done with the game. It follows a basic principle of rewarding players based on their level of accomplishment. Everyone gets a full set of freebies (tome gear) just from putting some time into the game. New tome gear will be stronger than the current strongest items in the game. How is that not a great deal? You didn't clear the challenges pre-2.4, but are still able to easily acquire items superior to the rewards in previous raids. People who clear the current challenging content (FCoB) get rewarded by having access to the CURRENT strongest equipment. The reward reflects the accomplishment of clearing the only challenging content available.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

They're asking for an alternative means to obtain something in-game, by doing other content than Coil. Asking for other means to *earn* something is quite the opposite of "asking for it on a silver platter".

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You said that players want to keep items exclusive to them, and as been pointed out Coil is NOT exclusive to any group of players. They are open for anyone willing to put the effort into learning and beating the content. The only thing stopping you from doing coil is yourself. Even on a limited playtime, progress can be made.

Also there has to be incentive for players to run content, the hardest content in the game gets a limited time exclusive on the best gear. Then later in he games lifetime, 3 months probably, access to certain items which where exclusive are open. If you arent willing to wait till said items become more accessable then do what all the other Coil party leaders have done and organise things yourself instead of waiting for someone to hand hold you.

I'm all for them adding alternate means to gain said content at implentation, if the content is as difficult as coil.

Content is there for everyone to enjoy, Coil is the only raid in the game and I know groups that go as little as one night for three hours once a week. That's about as casual as it gets. Do they down the last boss in world record time? No. However, they do obtain gear that is i110 or whatever the highest ilevel is at that point. They downed T9 eventually just by being consistent and learning. I see so many complain they don't have time or can't find a group that fits with their schedule, well there was groups on my old server downing T9 in PF! So, what's your excuse? Make some connections with groups, LS's and other FC's. Volunteer to be a fill in, gather up other people with wonky schedules and just do a PF group and learn the fights. They are difficult to a degree, but not impossible.

It's not as big of a time sink as many believe, it's just a matter of being sociable, consistent and competent.

People are upset that people who put in hard work get better results/rewards? Doesn't that apply in life in general? If they give you guys easier ways to obtain such things Coil would be worthless and no one would do it. Making the game DoA with lack of content that no one does.

Stop acting as if its Pay to Win content and people are buying to have better gear. That would be something to be upset about.

If you have no time to put work into coil one might argue that you shouldn't be playing an MMO. But everyone can do whatever they want. Just please don't try to take things away from people who DO have the time and put in hard work into the game.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Maybe people would like to have/obtain the gear, because it's there and they'd like to have it? Does there have to be some specific reason beyond that?

What is it with this group of people in every MMO's community who's determined to have content that's exclusive to them, and them only? Why this need for some people to constantly argue for a way to keep themselves "apart" from the rest of a MMO's community, or deeming some portion of a MMO "all to themselves", as though they own it, or something?

It's a needlessly divisive "us and them" type mentality, and it's not good, at all, for a MMORPGs community.

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So I assume you also buy like 10 years worth of food in 1 day just to have it.

I personally have not cleared t9 yet, but I sure do not want the best gear to just be handed to me. Because then there's very little incentive to raid, atleast to many people.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

snip

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This... is actually the most rational insight I've seen around here for a while.
SE please the vocal "elite" and the vocal "casual" every 3 months, and the millions of others players that don't care just enjoy the game because it's not nearly the most disturbing flaw of the game.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Maybe people would like to have/obtain the gear, because it's there and they'd like to have it? Does there have to be some specific reason beyond that?

What is it with this group of people in every MMO's community who's determined to have content that's exclusive to them, and them only? Why this need for some people to constantly argue for a way to keep themselves "apart" from the rest of a MMO's community, or deeming some portion of a MMO "all to themselves", as though they own it, or something?

It's a needlessly divisive "us and them" type mentality, and it's not good, at all, for a MMORPGs community.

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Wait what? how is this exclusive to people? Get that new poetic gear. And go try coil. Everyone is qualified to do this. Yes, that includes you.

You just don't want to. Which is your choice. They even put in echo in past turns for people like you to catch up and try the new turns.

New poetic gear (which is higher level than SCoB gear) + echo +Party finder. You're set to pass the old coil turns if you havent... Again... You just don't want to try.

Getting pretty pissed off at the elite minority describing getting other gear besides coil as "being handed to".

No high level gear is just "handed over" whether it be Coil or Soldiery/Poetics, you do the content, over and over until it's done and you get the gear as a reward.

Fact of the matter is Tomestone gear upgrades should be COMPLETELY SEPERATE from Coil since when you are able to run Coil you get rewarded with Coil gear anyway... and what is the point in getting upgrades for lesser gear when you're running content to get the highest gear anyway?

[sarcasm]Oh but what am I saying, I don't 'NEED' the high level gear, I don't 'DESERVE' the high level gear if I'm not going to be doing Coil non-stop *tut* silly me...[/sarcasm]

The way I see it, and most of my coil static (who won't be raiding in 2.4) what's the point of putting hours of practicing and learning a fight to have a chance at a piece of armor that you can get as a handout if you log in and cap your marks every week. No point in me breaking my back to get gear that the same person who logs in and plays casually can get. Yeah the stat allocations might be a bit different, or the model of the armor might be a bit different, but not different enough to bother imo. I'm looking forward to logging in playing casually, still getting gear that will compare to everyone else who is trying to be the very best, like no one ever was. If we ever see NM's or gear worth getting that will not be replaced next patch maybe I'll reconsider but for now a filthy casuals life for me.

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Originally Posted by Aricori

Content is there for everyone to enjoy, Coil is the only raid in the game and I know groups that go as little as one night for three hours once a week. That's about as casual as it gets. Do they down the last boss in world record time? No. However, they do obtain gear that is i110 or whatever the highest ilevel is at that point. They downed T9 eventually just by being consistent and learning. I see so many complain they don't have time or can't find a group that fits with their schedule, well there was groups on my old server downing T9 in PF! So, what's your excuse? Make some connections with groups, LS's and other FC's. Volunteer to be a fill in, gather up other people with wonky schedules and just do a PF group and learn the fights. They are difficult to a degree, but not impossible.

It's not as big of a time sink as many believe, it's just a matter of being sociable, consistent and COMPETENT.

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Yeah.... euhm... yeah...

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Originally Posted by Skyl1n3

Getting pretty pissed off at the elite minority describing getting other gear besides coil as "being handed to".

No high level gear is just "handed over" whether it be Coil or Soldiery/Poetics, you do the content, over and over until it's done and you get the gear as a reward.

Fact of the matter is Tomestone gear upgrades should be COMPLETELY SEPERATE from Coil since when you are able to run Coil you get rewarded with Coil gear anyway... and what is the point in getting upgrades for lesser gear when you're running content to get the highest gear anyway?

Oh but what am I saying, I don't 'NEED' the high level gear, I don't 'DESERVE' the high level gear if I'm not going to be doing Coil non-stop *tut* silly me...

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You seem to get it. What are you argueing for?

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Originally Posted by RickXRolled

You seem to get it. What are you argueing for?

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Seems you don't fully understand sarcasm, let me fix it for you.

I understand that casual players want ways to obtain the same level gear as hardcore raiders, and the fact is....you will. Just not at the same time, and you just have to accept that and be ok with it. The raiders put alot of time and effort into the hardest raids in the game. This content is difficult and takes alot of practice and coordination. So like it or not, they deserve to have better gear than the casual players. But guess what, it's only for a few months. On the next patch you be able to get all that gear (or comparable) without the headache of the difficult content. Now just be honest and ask yourself if you really believe that is unfair, cause it's not.

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Originally Posted by SongJoohee

Because, hopefully, people are playing the game because they find it fun, not because gear treadmills.

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Too many people are sadly only playing for gear (looking at you Mr "I log in only for Coil reset and log out for the week")

But I think people are complaining in vain here (err, let me rephrase that : more in vain than when weathered gear was added).

Instead, they should ask what happened to the "you'll be able to upgrade Coil drops with the Tomes of Poetics", as it had been said not so long ago.

I for one would be happy to know what is scheduled for that. i135 for epeen masters ?

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

So like it or not, they deserve to have better gear than the casual players. But guess what, it's only for a few months. On the next patch you be able to get all that gear (or comparable) without the headache of the difficult content. Now just be honest and ask yourself if you really believe that is unfair, cause it's not.

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Believe it or not, devs acknowledged that the raids in this game are nowhere near "difficult" if you find 7 people dedicated enough to progress together until you clear it. And you're being delusional if you think that tome gear should be gated behind whatever the raid is.

You want gear on merit ? fine, ask for ilevel +5 gear in raid (what they already did with the weapons to give raiders the best gear they asked for) and let the tome gear be upgradable by non-coil options with tedious grind at start then easy grind (hunt, world of darkness) at next patch.

That way you keep casual gear.. casual and raider gear satisfy raiders' epeen.. For those who really care only about the gear. The other don't care about it anyway.

Many should remember that the gear is a mean, not an end.

Raiders have a God complex. Not all, but a lot do. They love the idea of "lookin down on the rest of those with non-allag" gear. It makes them feel special because they did not get enough hugs as a child. Every time I see someone in fully decked out High-allag, I give them a hug, just to reassure them that they are l33t and special and very much loved.

Wait, what? I don't think you understand my point. I could care less what the item level is for each specific set of gear, and I wouldn't have any issue if the tome gear was upgradable through other means than coil. As long as the Coil gear is of a higher item level to reward those who put in that effort. My argument is to those in this thread that feel they should have access to same or comparable gear. If Tome gear was all i130 and Coil gear was i135 like u said, I wouldn't have any issue with that, but there would still be complaints from the casuals that their gear isn't the same ilvl. The way it is now is no different than what you said. Coil gear is i130, tome gear is i120 and in 2.5 casuals will be able to upgrade their gear to i130 without ever stepping foot into coil. Everbody wins, only the hardcore raiders are awarded i130 gear a few months early which is completely fair. If the casual players want i130 gear earlier, there is nothing stopping them from going into Coil

You dont need to be i130 to clear shiva or 2.4 dungeons so whats the rush of getting 130 right away? And when 2.5 hits you can reach max ilvl in one day via hunts 2.0.