Pet Placement....

It is really annoying that I have to re-place my pet after every push back mechanic instead of having it stuck at the spot or having it go back automatically to where i placed it. Can we get a fix on this?
eg. ifrit ex push back, titan's landslide, T6 sucking mechanic on devour, T9 chariot and heavens fall...
I do re-place them quite often and it's getting irritating that when i fail to notice, i'm either losing pet heals or dps on those few secs that i have move them in..

What do you guys think?

Well, I am somewhat of a masochist so I like the fact I have to pay more attention. It never becomes a problem for me. If you want a "fix" for this, have your pet on Heel. Not something I would recommend seriously, though. :P

That being said, I guess I wouldn't mind it if pets gravitated towards the place where they were initially Placed, post-knockback impact. I always just pay attention to not make this a problem. Similar to how you keep tabs on everything else as a SCH, it just comes with the territory.

Try to control the use of embrace so that it is always used (macro or manual). Either way your pet will continue to embrace regardless of position as they will move to embrace if the place command was used. You will probably position your pet before you use whispering dawn, fey glow or fey light. In situations where your pet can also divide damage, you'll know when they happen so once again you will use place. For heavens' fall your pet position does not really matter as long as it is not in the centre since you can use rouse to block paralyse.

It's just practice really. Controlling the pet is fun to me and feels somewhat like controlling two characters and having two gcds. You can kinda judge how good a scholar is by the way they control their pet. You have the worst kind of scholar who has Eos on sic and uses all her buffs at the start of a pull. Then scholars who realise that they have another pet and use Selene since it's probably more effective than an auto-pilot Eos. Following that scholars who discover obey, macros, pet combos, positioning, maximising gcds by using pet commands while casting, and finally embrace control.

I wouldn't think of managing your pet annoying but an opportunity to become the best scholar you can be.

When Garuda EX places that big tornado in the middle of the field, it does knockback. If Eos tries to return, she is committing suicide.

In general, though, I agree it would be nice for other fights.

I think I understand where you guys are coming from but regardless of being an amazing scholar or not placing pets for at least most of the fight will be better for the sch/smn just for the fact that the pet will execute the command whenever given and I do use macros for embrace! Having the pet on follow will always delay the cast which sometimes it saves players (dps/tanks) from being dead. If we're talking about being a good scholar then it shouldn't be hard for a good scholar to pick a good position for the fairy to be statically healing from or for it to equally distribute buffs, this way i can be in 2 places at once as a scholar to heal the entire party while not being much mobile, especially solo heals! I tried Titan ex 4-man for the hell of it and whenever the fairy got landslided it would just be isolated while i'm trapped in a goal and the tank is close to dying with it -the fairy- not doing a single cast because its too far!! Also the time I would invest moving my pet in, i would rather dps or heal due to me being a controller user and having to switch hotbars/crossbars, believe me it makes a lot of difference that i've seen it cause wipes on challenging content :(

If most of you enjoy placing a pet consistently they should make it an option to stick a fairy/garuda/ifrit during a fight to max heals/dps at least..

I main in scholar, and I find the knockback mechanic really annoying for pets too. Generally I use Heel on 95% of the contents, the rare exceptions are:
Levi ex, due to the annoying debuff on OT
T5, for fireball soaking, and place them out of the pit to avoid making them walk into the wall during divebombs (Yes they are silly enough to do that)
T9, to absorb the beam dmg

1. While placing pets might sounds like a fancy trick it does take away a large amount of healers' awareness and makes them worse healers.
2. Heel doesnt really reduce pets' healing efficiency in those butt clenching moments, cuz they will still prioritize healing over movement.
3. Some knockback mechanic will push pets into somewhere infront of the boss and inside their cone attack range, which usually means an instant death. Your pet is always safer when hes following you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseM

1. While placing pets might sounds like a fancy trick it does take away a large amount of healers' awareness and makes them worse healers.

---

How so? Sure, if someone forgets to re-Place their pet for optimal buff ranges or just derps with it in general - I would agree, but I would actually argue the exact opposite: having your pet on Heel is an easy way out of any of the re-Placing and minmaxing that a competent Place-user would have to do. If one is unable to include minding their pet and its placement in their "awareness", then that means that person doesn't really have good awareness levels to begin with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseM

2. Heel doesnt really reduce pets' healing efficiency in those butt clenching moments, cuz they will still prioritize healing over movement.

---

Heel reduces a ton of your healing efficiency. A pet will prioritize healing over moving in situations where someone has already dipped, but the fairy-AI is a lot less receptive when using Heel, when compared to Place. This applies for all commands. Also, if you move around, you have a harder time using manual Embrace-spam and having your pet minmax its HPS, as your pet will also move around with you. That constant Embrace-spamming is more important for keeping up a good flow in terms of cruise-controlling and off-DPSing than having it heal over movement when the damage has already been done (to sub-80% HP to trigger auto-Embrace).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseM

3. Some knockback mechanic will push pets into somewhere infront of the boss and inside their cone attack range, which usually means an instant death. Your pet is always safer when hes following you.

---

Sure it is safer with you, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't analyze the terrain each time and put it at the optimal spot. Misplacing your pet in Titan EX or T8 is pretty much the only place I can think of where this might happen. Even then, infrequently and with bad positioning of it.

I think I only place in T5 and T9 , call me a poor SCH if you want but the pet def prioritizes heals over moving so if they need to heal rather than follow Eos does so.

I've never had a problem with placement I actually in enjoy it , adds a new dynamic to the game especially in T9


SCH I think hands down takes the most skill to play...due to most raid/static groups requiring you to dps in tough coil situations i.e T9 P1-P3 and I even dps in P4 also still maintaining top notch healing .... GO SCHS!!!

This again.............

All I can is pay attention during the fight, or keep it on heel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseM

2. Heel doesnt really reduce pets' healing efficiency in those butt clenching moments, cuz they will still prioritize healing over movement.

---

Yes and no. I have tested this extensively and here are my findings:
1. If Eos is already casting, she will finish before moving.
2. If you give her a command while she is moving, she will stop to cast.
3. If none of those conditions apply, she will return to your side prior to resuming auto-casting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by giantslayer

Yes and no. I have tested this extensively and here are my findings:
1. If Eos is already casting, she will finish before moving.
2. If you give her a command while she is moving, she will stop to cast.
3. If none of those conditions apply, she will return to your side prior to resuming auto-casting.

---

Thx for the info. While the 1st and 2nd one are def true, I tend to have a different opinion on the 3rd one. From my personal experience I tend to believe pet will stay chain casting Embrace as long as there are still low-hp ppl around her, even after you moved to a different spot (and ofc she's set on Heel). To prove that, I just checked some raiding vid I saved, and this is very likely to be correct.
I would be thankful if someone could provide stronger evidence over this topic. I myself might test this in game as well..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseM

I tend to believe pet will stay chain casting Embrace as long as there are still low-hp ppl around her, even after you moved to a different spot (and ofc she's set on Heel). To prove that, I just checked some raiding vid I saved, and this is very likely to be correct. I would be thankful if someone could provide stronger evidence over this topic. I myself might test this in game as well..

---

It's more about the fairies being far less receptive on Heel than they are on Place. Also, while I personally spam Embrace manually on cooldown regardless of the current HP-levels, a fairy will turret and chain-cast slightly more vigilantly when you have Placed it (without micromanaging it). How often do you have situations wherein most people are low HP and are not topped off? Not too often. I would use single-target healing on the MT as the most relevant example seeing as most of the phases and times of a given fight, it's about that single-target healing.

It's mostly empirical, but I have always found out that fairies are less receptive to your commands in general (such as popping their cooldowns) when they are on Heel, vs. Place. Becomes pretty apparent when doing stuff like Titan EX and trying to pop fairy cooldowns fast - there's just that small delay that there is not when you have a fairy on Place (that happens in all content). On one hand, having a fairy on Heel is an easy way out especially in encounters like Titan EX, due to no re-Placing needing to be done, but it definitely affects the overall rate at which you Embrace, having to move out of the way a lot anyway, as well as the mentioned cooldowns. It's definitely a bit hard to pinpoint it super-fast, but having mained a SCH since release, it's how I and some people I have talked to feel.

I'm on my cell right now and I can't be testing or researching extensively, but I googled in haste and found one old semi-relevant anecdote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tranquil

It's more about the fairies being far less receptive on Heel than they are on Place.
I googled in haste and found one old semi-relevant anecdote.

---

The vid was interesting. The problem with it is in both vids the pet ended up tanking all of the mobs.Pet set themself really low on healing priority, and thats why they seemed to be hesitating everytime they casted Embrace on themselves..
I just did 2 sets of test myself in MD:
In the 1st one, I let Selene tanked all 4 mobs just like the vid did, and came up with the same conclusion that when it comes to pet-self-healing, Place does boost up HPS, and therefore is a superior choice over Heel.
In the 2nd one, I made sure to generate a large amount of enimity before I called out Selene, so she was healing me the whole time instead of herself. What happened was her performance was the same on Heel and on Place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tranquil

It's mostly empirical, but I have always found out that fairies are less receptive to your commands in general (such as popping their cooldowns) when they are on Heel, vs. Place. [/url]

---

In regards to casting latency, I put "/stay" before every buffs, it stops pets from w/e they are doing atm and orders them to use the skill instantly. So the latency is not a problem to me anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseM

-snip-

---

Well, good that you tested it out, but the source material is very dated, nearly one year old. Having had been on cell at the time, I merely resorted to a quick google search in hopes of demonstrating how people have felt about a fairy's vigilancy in either mode, Heel or Place, and these text-based anecdotes came up.

I didn't even watch any of the linked material myself, just throwing it out there.

At any rate, I can give you a quick empirical anecdote: I used to do T8 with a Heel'd Selene for a bit to see if it was any different. I struggled hitting 240-250 HPS with a PLD MT. When I returned to doing it with Place, the numbers hop to 270-280 HPS consistently. Both of these had the same party composition (ie. no WAR MT to inflate HPS), no clutch Mantra differences or anything. I used the same set of gear throughout these weeks, with the same MD/MND/DET values. In both, I am spamming Embrace on cooldown, whether via a target's target Embrace-spam macro or directly targeting the tank.

T8 is a fight during which you are mostly still. Even then, being completely still, my fairy is more reactive to my Embrace-spamming and cooldown popping on Place than it is when on Heel. (Even when popping a tower, I continue doing my Embracespam).

Disclaimer: all of these numbers were naturally calculated with a pen and paper. :^)

Well this is really easy to test out:
Spam embrace on yourself while it's stationary (be it heel or place) and spam embrace on yourself while you're moving around. Alternatively: Cast embrace, move away from it (roughly 20-25 yalms) and try to cast embrace on yourself again with both heel and place. I can't be bothered to sit there and be triggerhappy with a stopwatch, but the behaviour is very apparent. Especially when it's on heel, you cast on it and sprint away (while staying in it's range) and have the fairy cast another embrace on you before it returns to your side.

As result, you'll notice the following:
On heel, the fairy will cast embrace on you as commanded and be stationary for the cast.
As the cast finishes, the fairy will make an attempt to reach you again and follow you as usual.
The fairy won't cast another embrace (even if spammed) till it either:
Reaches a certain distance from you
Reaches your last registered position prior to it's movement

It's a good idea for SCHs to get used to Placing regardless of how they feel about overall HPS for two important reasons:

1. Using the Stay command is practically essential for micromanaging Selene, and is helpful for Eos as well, so might as well get used to managing a turret fairy's placement.

2. Fights like T7 sometimes force the SCH to become separated from the party, and a Heeling fairy will either not be able to reach targets or will heal sporadically as it tries to move and cast. Selene is also likely to buff out of range of melees when this happens.

When the fairy is Placed, I do find her more responsive overall. While I personally don't utilize <mo> Embrace (I've been targeting it manually for so long that split healing is faster for me without it), I spam her on the tank constantly except for a moment at the beginning of add phases, and Place is helpful.

there is a definite delay when fairy is on heel for example:

Tank is @ 40% HP on point A
I'm across the arena @ point C and cannot reach the tank, i send the fairy for heals
the fairy needs to cross point B and then A and cast embrace then get back to point B then point C to follow me around.

In an actual fight the fairy will go the maximum range for embrace to heal the tank from 40% to 60%
then move back a little closer to me then gets close again to the tank (due to my embrace spam) and re-select tank and heal to 80% then do the same thing until tank is over 80%
and ofc that's me spamming embrace for her to heal the tank faster cause thats how it works, it is like this without embrace spam:
@ point C >Secure point B>secure point A>heal> secure point B>tank 60%>secure point C>and repeat

if i place the fairy at point B or A
it'll be more efficient in terms of healing target without having to spam embrace
already tested this... the fairy never chains embrace when on heel if not spammed with the command and even then there is a minor delay (when im moving)
which is why i tend to place my pet when i need heavy solo target healing and this is WHY i hate it when i have to sometimes bother re-placing my pet after a push back mechanic when i rather focus on my solo target and keep the tank alive for incoming burst damage.

also the fairy doesn't care who has lowest HP OR SO (maybe lag), she heals with a weird pattern she has her priorities listed with some random algorithm so she will changes targets in between my embrace macro, something i seem to easily notice in aoe damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RoseM

Thx for the info. While the 1st and 2nd one are def true, I tend to have a different opinion on the 3rd one. From my personal experience I tend to believe pet will stay chain casting Embrace as long as there are still low-hp ppl around her, even after you moved to a different spot (and ofc she's set on Heel). To prove that, I just checked some raiding vid I saved, and this is very likely to be correct.
I would be thankful if someone could provide stronger evidence over this topic. I myself might test this in game as well..

---

Here's how I tested it: I had a friend join my party and use equipment changes to keep hp below 80%. I then experimented moving around. If I placed my faerie away before using heel so that I had a head start and didn't give Eos a chance to catch up, I could walk past the ally and Eos didn't heal at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by giantslayer

When Garuda EX places that big tornado in the middle of the field, it does knockback. If Eos tries to return, she is committing suicide.

---

Outside from the weird oddity that Garuda EX tornados do not affect pets at all, while HM version does.

Outside of Ifrit it's hardly an annoyance though hitting place once a minute.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisha

Outside from the weird oddity that Garuda EX tornados do not affect pets at all, while HM version does.

Outside of Ifrit it's hardly an annoyance though hitting place once a minute.

---

Whoops. To be honest, after doing HM, I decided place was a bad idea for Garuda in general. I remember being dead very shortly after getting hit by the one in EX and didn't pay attention to my faerie. I just assumed it affected her as the HM stuff did. Garuda also has one where she does a whirlwind on the outside that knocks you inward. I think that affects the faerie, but if you are placing her, you probably want the center so that wouldn't be an issue.

stoneskin her