Please re-consider vote kick.

Just had a very obnoxious "healer" (quotes, because she seemed to be thinking she was tank) in the duty roulette. It came to the point where she was voted to be kicked - twice. And after both, she popped right back in (not only with a condescending and downright rude tone to boot, but even refusing to do any sort of healing for the rest of the dungeon), effectively rendering the vote dismiss function useless.

Players who quit a duty because it doesn't fit them (one way or another) are penalised with a 30min lockout from registering for duty again. Players who initiate a vote dismiss are penalised with a 4hr lockout from initiating another one again. Bearing this in mind, I fail to see why those who are kicked out can queue again right after being dismissed and are not punished in any sort of way - if anyone, it should be them to get a lockout a least, because they've obviously done something that caused a conflict big enough for an agreement that they shouldn't be playing. And not only are they not penalised, but they can pop right back in the same duty they have been kicked from and still get the tomes and possibly even the loot for the kills, making their "efforts" effectively rewarded.

Please consider this and make appropriate adjustments.

You have to consider that there are cases where vote kick was abused. Not in this instance. But maybe what should happen is that the person being voted out should be unable to click the "in progress" box for a half hour, but can still join fresh runs.

Or how about the person kicked cannot join the same group via DF even with join in progress checked? 4 hours is harsh and people abuse the system every day aka ST.

Two things that should be added to the vote-kick option:

1. Players who get kicked, can not re-join the same group via Duty Finder. I reckon we can all agree that we would wait few minutes, instead of having the same idiot back in the group.

2. If someone is being kicked and he or she has someone in the group who joined via a party at the start of the dungeon, these players should not get the option to vote Yes or No. An example, dps and healer joined toghter via DF. The DPS is horrible, so the rest of the group decides to kick him out, because the healer is a friend, guildie etc of the dps, he or she decides to block the kick by voting No. Just like how people who join toghter can not give each other commendation, this should also be added to the kick option.

1. would obviously be brilliant...other than situations were you're vote kicked during a DC and try to get back into the group (I've been in this situation and "in-progressed" myself back into the group that kicked me for DCing)
2. However can present a problem with overwhelming majorities (3/4 premade or 6-7/8 premade). The extreme case is 3/4 premade or 7/8 premade. You're saying that 1 random should be able to guaranteed vote kick a member of the 7-man partial? The result of that would then be the remaining 6 vote kicking the single and trying to get their friend back in in-progress assuming #1 wasn't implemented yet. Majority always rules. If the player's partymates are fine with his behavior and vote No it's up to the single person to decide if they want to stick around or not.

I would just had left the instance. I think there is no penalty for leaving after someone get kicked.

How about the person kicked can't join in-progress for a while and can't join as the same role they'd gotten kicked out as?
Sorry to those who are voted off in a legit abuse case - do report the players involved (that "character name of the player who initiated the vote kick" thing is kinda funny since as far as I know the feature is anonymous), maybe even the whole party - not as actual perpetrators, but as people who have been there. It's easy to look up which server they are on, too.

However, I personally think that their grief is outweighed by entire parties being held hostage; it just happened to me again today. Guy sat down and went literally "it's either you kick me or I afk while you get me the exp". He refused to just quit on his own, and all three of us refused to use the vote dismiss as his personal get-out-of-lockout-for-free feature (whoever initiates one that gets through, can't do again for four hours, mind you), since nobody initiated a vote; all three of us also refused to go on, just sitting down next to him and staring at him. While an apparent agreement on our side, this kind of behaviour on his part is just not tolerable. So, I'm still saying vote-kicked people should get at least the same 30min DF lockout as those who up and leave.

In my humble opinion, if you was expelled from a party you must received a penalty. In the current system people ask to be kicked to avoid time lockout instead just leaving the dungeon. This doesn't make much sense.

But you must prevent abuse of kick option, because a good player could be kick without reason.

So, my sugestion is a variable time lockout based on player commendation. For exemple: time lockout (minutes) = number of player commendations - number of times kicked.

To prevent kick abuse, the players who vote to dismiss a player would face a time lockout for the next dungeon. For exemple: time lockout (minutes) = number of player commendations - number of votos to kick a player.

With this system, good players will not suffer penalties for kick abuse, but bad players will face a penalty and the players will think twice to kick someone without a good reason.

With a tank class leveled I can inflate my Comms VERY easily and to be honest I doubt there's anyone who has even close to as many kicks as comms unless they're a fresh player.

If the person joined after being kicked, you could likely report them for harassment. Doubt any action would be taken, but maybe the GMs would at least say something to the person. You never know...

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Originally Posted by Lithera

With a tank class leveled I can inflate my Comms VERY easily and to be honest I doubt there's anyone who has even close to as many kicks as comms unless they're a fresh player.

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Yes, this system can be exploited and work better with fresh characters, but would be quite ironic to see a toxic player grinding commendations, don't you think? ;)

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

Or how about the person kicked cannot join the same group via DF even with join in progress checked? 4 hours is harsh and people abuse the system every day aka ST.

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That's the first thing that occurred to me. I don't see a problem with someone being vote-kicked necessarily (there are reasons someone might be that have nothing to do with them being jerks, etc). I just don't see why they'd be able to re-join the same group again. Seems to defeat the purpose of having vote kick in the first place.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

I fail to see why those who are kicked out can queue again right after being dismissed and are not punished in any sort of way

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Uh... you know people abuse the kick system, or get kicked for bad reasons, right? If some jerks kicked you on a whim, or because you weren't "good enough" for them, or to bring in some guildie at the last minute, or just to troll for the heck of it, do you think you should be locked out of Duty Finder afterwards?

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

If the person joined after being kicked, you could likely report them for harassment.

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But it's in DF, so it's not like you get to know beforehand who you are joining...

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Two things that should be added to the vote-kick option:

1. Players who get kicked, can not re-join the same group via Duty Finder. I reckon we can all agree that we would wait few minutes, instead of having the same idiot back in the group.

2. If someone is being kicked and he or she has someone in the group who joined via a party at the start of the dungeon, these players should not get the option to vote Yes or No. An example, dps and healer joined toghter via DF. The DPS is horrible, so the rest of the group decides to kick him out, because the healer is a friend, guildie etc of the dps, he or she decides to block the kick by voting No. Just like how people who join toghter can not give each other commendation, this should also be added to the kick option.

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But they can't block the vote even if they are friends. It only takes 2/3 votes to dismiss somebody from a party.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Uh... you know people abuse the kick system, or get kicked for bad reasons, right? If some jerks kicked you on a whim, or because you weren't "good enough" for them, or to bring in some guildie at the last minute, or just to troll for the heck of it, do you think you should be locked out of Duty Finder afterwards?

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Do I think I should be locked out? No. Would I put up with it if that meant that those vote-kicked for all the right reasons can't just return to the same party that voted them off in shorter time than the blink of an eye? Yes, yes, yes and a thousand times yes.

For the record, it just happened today again - kicked guy returned right after he was kicked. Completely defeats the purpose of having the whole system in the first place, might as well just get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Do I think I should be locked out? No. Would

For the record, it just happened today again

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I would submit that instead of suggesting they rework this function, you instead assess your tolerance levels and gameplay.

In this thread, you have stated that 3 times in the previous two weeks you've encountered the problem where you've vote kicked a player and they've returned to the dungeon.
How many vote kicks have you not mentioned?

I haven't used the vote kick feature in weeks to months. I have possibly used it 3 times since it's implementation.
You, on the other hand, have claimed to have vote dismissed a player in an instance 3 times in as many weeks! (That you have detailed here)

I would suggest it is far more useful for SE to track and possibly regulate the vote kick function to prevent possible abuse of the system as opposed to punish those who have been potentially dismissed for invalid reasons.

A thought occurred to me recently and I have no idea if this would work in a vote kick situation. You know how if someone leaves, the party leader is asked if they want to replace members? What if they were to select "no" and maybe give in 5 minutes or so before reactivating the option? Would this alleviate the problem?

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Originally Posted by Whiston

I would submit that instead of suggesting they rework this function, you instead assess your tolerance levels and gameplay.

In this thread, you have stated that 3 times in the previous two weeks you've encountered the problem where you've vote kicked a player and they've returned to the dungeon.
How many vote kicks have you not mentioned?

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Good point. You know, I am beginning to notice a trend here. I am seriously questioning if OP is telling the whole story...

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Just had a very obnoxious "healer" (quotes, because she seemed to be thinking she was tank) in the duty roulette. It came to the point where she was voted to be kicked - twice. And after both, she popped right back in (not only with a condescending and downright rude tone to boot, but even refusing to do any sort of healing for the rest of the dungeon), effectively rendering the vote dismiss function useless.

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What does that mean, "seemed to be thinking she was tank"? Was she consistently running ahead of the group and pulling mobs? As a healer myself, I know that kind of behaviour is pointless and would just end up getting me killed.
It seems possible that her heals were pulling aggro, which could be an indication of an undergeared/unskilled tank, or that she was healing way more than necessary. Or maybe she was casting Regen or Stoneskin while mobs were in range, pulling them to her before the tank could gain enmity.
Whatever the case, all you say is "it came to the point where she was voted to be kicked," without any explanation how it came to that point. Did you not try to address the problem behaviour and talk about changing tactics? Or did you just dislike what the player was doing, and kick her without hesitation? Her being rude and refusing to heal upon return was of course not the correct thing to do, but not a surprising reaction if she perceived that she had been kicked for no good reason, or that her heals were going to keep pulling aggro from your current tank.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

it just happened to me again today. Guy sat down and went literally "it's either you kick me or I afk while you get me the exp". He refused to just quit on his own, and all three of us refused to use the vote dismiss as his personal get-out-of-lockout-for-free feature (whoever initiates one that gets through, can't do again for four hours, mind you), since nobody initiated a vote; all three of us also refused to go on, just sitting down next to him and staring at him. While an apparent agreement on our side, this kind of behaviour on his part is just not tolerable.

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No attempt to explain the situation, I see. So am I supposed to assume that this guy did this as soon as he entered the dungeon, unprovoked? Or is there more to the story? I notice you didn't even mention this was a player who had returned to your party after being kicked -- in fact, you mention refusing to kick him, so I don't see how you can say it "happened to me again." The only thing I can see for sure that happened again, was a destructive group experience involving you.
Also, you say all three of you refusing to progress was "an apparent agreement." Do you mean "apparent" as in, that's what you assumed, but didn't actually discuss it or agree on it? Because if one guy says he's just going to sit there, and then you just sink to his level and do the same, the other two players in the party don't have much choice. It's not like they can try to complete the dungeon on their own. They are probably just hoping you guys will grow up and quit this nonsense.
My advice is to just take the high road next time, and instead of mimicking the trollish behaviour that you claim not to like, just kick the player. If he winds up coming back, that's unfortunate, but I don't think it is as common as you are making it out to be. You really seem to be way too focused on fighting fire with fire and getting "revenge" on people, even when it means potentially penalizing innocent people and wasting more time by mirroring immature behaviour.

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

For the record, it just happened today again - kicked guy returned right after he was kicked.

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You sure do kick a lot of people. I see you've completely given up on any kind of story that shows such kicks were justified or necessary. Please keep in mind that vote-to-kick is an important tool in removing problem individuals, but it is intended as a last resort. It is much, much better for everyone if you avoid hostility and talk things out politely and patiently with your teammates. While I agree that it serves no purpose for someone who has been kicked from a group to be allowed to re-join that group through DF, I really am doubting your motivations for kicking these players in the first place.

Instead just perma ban them from that specific instance they were kicked from, i see no reason to lock them out, but they shouldn't ever end up in the one they were kicked from