Boring and Tedious: the real problem of crafting

Crafting, like the rest of the game, needs a ton of work. Let's look at something simple, clicking. It takes 6 freakin' clicks before I can even start crafting... another 10-14 once you take selecting which synthesis you want to use each time into account. So one guildleve of 5 tries means you've clicked the stupid mouse 100 times.. That's 800 clicks if you are doing a full amount.

That's too much!

Pre-precrafting clicks
-1. click to switch gear (more than one if you don't have the right macros set up for all your items.
0. click synthesis

Precrafting clicks
1. Select requested item.
2. Select the quest (and it's not even highlighted for your current class) you want to craft for.
3. Confirm that you really want to make an item for that quest.
4. Select which hand you'd like to use.
5. Select which item you want to make (because even if there is only one possible item from that combo you still have to click on it and if there isn't the <bleeping> programmers give you options to make an item that isn't in your quest (but you can't really make those anyways).
6. Confirm again you really want to make that item.

Crafting clicks
7-??. select which synthesis you want to use each time because once isn't enough (don't forget the extra clicks for traits).

I can't even chat or anything while crafting because you have to click a synthesis every few seconds. It's nothing but click, wait a few seconds, click again and it's pissing me off. If you ask me, it should take about 5 clicks or so to finish an item in total. I can't even start synthesizing an item in 5 clicks. So how am I supposed to socialize or do things in group activities? It takes forever to craft and it demands all of your attention. Plus when the chat field loses focus, you lose anything typed in there.

So no talking while crafting. Don't believe me? Go to the guilds. You'll find a dozen people crafting and no one is saying a word. No one talks in town either, but that's another problem.

I can see you guys tried to make crafting a mini game, but it's more of a marathon where you aren't going anywhere and there's nothing fun or game like about it. Just fusteration and a trial in tedium.


Can't customize things to your tastes
Okay you want to make an armor or you buy one. Sadly the game won't let you select any color you want and if you are lucky enough to get your hands on some dye (assuming you find it) you can't get the color you want half the time because the guy isn't selling it or it doesn't exist in the game. So while this game is graphics intensive, I can't even get a nice shade of blue for my armor or shirt.


Realism for the lose
Another big problem in this game is too much attention was put into making crafting a realistic as possible. Sadly, realism usually sucks. Take flight sims, they went bye-bye when devs made them too real instead of fun. Hard science fiction? A small subset of the real thing. And what about people who are in the for escapism? Do you think they really want to collect the 150 raw materials just to make the one base item they'll outgrow in a few levels? I sure don't.

Look at eve: 7-8 base materials are enough for making any T1 items... you don't even have to make components unless you are going into a large scale guild project. Guild Wars? Crafting usually takes one to three materials, no components.

Even though those systems are simpler, they are a ton better than what SE has given us.


Which begs a question, does SE even know what fun is? Or what a fun MMO should be like? Too much realism and too much clicking suggests not.

I have to agree with you here. I've not got to the stage where I have a decent level craft but the thing is, I just don't want to. Absolutly no motivation to level any higher. It's not fun and not even rewarding until you get to about rank 40 where you can fix just about anything in that category.

Recently I've just been moaning to myself and my LS members (sorry) about how dull it really is, most agree, most have just about given up on crafting as well.

I'll give you an example for me. I'm rank 24 goldsmith. One level is 25k sp. A single brass ring, (apparently best thing to grind at this level), will yield about 200 sp at this level. So SE want me to synth approximately 125 times, (think about how long one synth takes) to get one level? ONE. I think not!

Then they just go and make it worse! By gimping the sp received from local leves that a high majority of people were using with success to level their crafts. I think something needs to be done, I don't know what exactly, but something.

That's my rant over :)

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Originally Posted by Mikazuki

I have to agree with you here. I've not got to the stage where I have a decent level craft but the thing is, I just don't want to. Absolutly no motivation to level any higher. It's not fun and not even rewarding until you get to about rank 40 where you can fix just about anything in that category.

Recently I've just been moaning to myself and my LS members (sorry) about how dull it really is, most agree, most have just about given up on crafting as well.

I'll give you an example for me. I'm rank 24 goldsmith. One level is 25k sp. A single brass ring, (apparently best thing to grind at this level), will yield about 200 sp at this level. So SE want me to synth approximately 125 times, (think about how long one synth takes) to get one level? ONE. I think not!

Then they just go and make it worse! By gimping the sp received from local leves that a high majority of people were using with success to level their crafts. I think something needs to be done, I don't know what exactly, but something.

That's my rant over :)

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I think the biggest problem is that it can take you between five and ten attempts to complete on synth. So to get your level you need to do 560-1250 attempts for the 125 successes (assuming you nail each synth).

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Originally Posted by Grundy

I think the biggest problem is that it can take you between five and ten attempts to complete on synth. So to get your level you need to do 560-1250 attempts for the 125 successes (assuming you nail each synth).

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Hahah thanks for that dude. I forgot that I would FAIL. Yeh so basically you have proved my point and then some :)
I would also like to add, this is at RANK 24! What are they thinking, really...
I said rant over for me, it really is now, promise.

FYI Brass Ring is no longer optimal synth for your level. Patch 1.15 has made doing synth way above your level much more rewarding, you can get upward to 800 SP a synth for something that is ridiculously hard, or average 500 SP for something that is reasonable. I always switch to new recipe once SP dip under 250 SP unless I have no other option, after patch 1.15 I have been grinding CRP from 40-44 using all higher level recipe and I have never had to do more than 150 synths a rank, consider that my SP to next rank for each of my rank would be 3 times yours.

So yea, you're doing it wrong, what are you thinking?

And you're being funny, local leve has NEVER been a source of SP, before the patch it has been waaaaaaaaaay worse. I'm fine with the SP nerf, because after the patch I can actually get free 5k-10k from leve at r47 every reset whereas before it I can get around 3k SP every 5 reset. That's a major 1000% improvement. You have it handed to you easy mode by now honestly, being a goldsmith since CE start I have seen/suffered the worst of worst.

I'm doing it wrong am I? Ok yeh from what you said I am, however I was told by a r40 gsm that at my level brass rings are the best thing to grind. I'm just following orders :) Next time I'm on I might try something else but I just don't know what and if I can even be bothered. Do you know what you were doing at this level?

At your level I would suggest doing Silver Earring. My past experience is way different from you, because that was like October 2010 and everything was 100 times worse, mats rarity, shard cost, lacking tools, lacking crafting clothes, lower SP rate.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

FYI Brass Ring is no longer optimal synth for your level. Patch 1.15 has made doing synth way above your level much more rewarding, you can get upward to 800 SP a synth for something that is ridiculously hard, or average 500 SP for something that is reasonable. I always switch to new recipe once SP dip under 250 SP unless I have no other option, after patch 1.15 I have been grinding CRP from 40-44 using all higher level recipe and I have never had to do more than 150 synths a rank, consider that my SP to next rank for each of my rank would be 3 times yours.

So yea, you're doing it wrong, what are you thinking?

And you're being funny, local leve has NEVER been a source of SP, before the patch it has been waaaaaaaaaay worse. I'm fine with the SP nerf, because after the patch I can actually get free 5k-10k from leve at r47 every reset whereas before it I can get around 3k SP every 5 reset. That's a major 1000% improvement. You have it handed to you easy mode by now honestly, being a goldsmith since CE start I have seen/suffered the worst of worst.

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"its fine now because it was soooo much harder when i did it guyz."

So what do you do while crafting? Watch movies? Bullshit with friends? I'd be surprised only if you managed to pay attention to the crafting process. The current system is boring, clumsy, and takes too long to make even one item. Regardless of how slow/fast it is to level doesn't matter right now(Spoilers: still slow as shit).

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

Watch movies?

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Personally, I danced.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

"its fine now because it was soooo much harder when i did it guyz."

So what do you do while crafting? Watch movies? Bullshit with friends? I'd be surprised only if you managed to pay attention to the crafting process. The current system is boring, clumsy, and takes too long to make even one item. Regardless of how slow/fast it is to level doesn't matter right now(Spoilers: still slow as shit).

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Yes, because in other MMO crafting is so much fun and doesn't take a long time to level up. Wait, all of them do. Unfortunately for you almost no MMO has quest grind for crafting, almost. So you think click and wait for crafting is so much more fun, fine.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

Yes, because in other MMO crafting is so much fun and doesn't take a long time to level up. Wait, all of them do. Unfortunately for you almost no MMO has quest grind for crafting, almost. So you think click and wait for crafting is so much more fun, fine.

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You do realize your argument is essentially "crafting in other MMOs is dumb, why should it be any different in FF14," right? That is just about the stupidest thing I've read on these forums, and if you've sifted through general you have to know that means a lot.

And where did I ever say anything about one button crafting? If anything, I'd prefer something along the lines of the gatherer mini-games.

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Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

You do realize your argument is essentially "crafting in other MMOs is dumb, why should it be any different in FF14," right? That is just about the stupidest thing I've read on these forums, and if you've sifted through general you have to know that means a lot.

And where did I ever say anything about one button crafting? If anything, I'd prefer something along the lines of the gatherer mini-games.

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And where did you say anything about mini-games? All you ever did was complaining it was dumb and boring. What I am saying is that other MMO crafting is even dumber with one press and wait, and yet people over there seem to be contend enough with that and don't even complain about that. Only in FFXIV that the crafting got bashing so much. Pretend to be all-knowing and tell other people they are stupider than stupidest is very convincing argument.

Patch 1.16 took out a step or 2, and decreased many steps on leves.

Yeah, with proper gear and facilities you should be able to do something about 7-8 levels "above you" and get about 500-600 a piece.

But this doesnt retract from the fact that the crafting in this game is more "Boring and Tedious" than high school homework. I can see that they tried to add an element to the "creating" process, but that element is really not enjoyable after repetition number 1,500. It's actually very similar to the problem with the battle classes, you end up just clicking "1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1..." and then repeat.

If the system can not be remade into a more enjoyable system atleast stream line the majority of it. Maybe make it much faster to make parts, but much longer "battles" to make finished products.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

And where did you say anything about mini-games? All you ever did was complaining it was dumb and boring. What I am saying is that other MMO crafting is even dumber with one press and wait, and yet people over there seem to be contend enough with that and don't even complain about that. Only in FFXIV that the crafting got bashing so much. Pretend to be all-knowing and tell other people they are stupider than stupidest is very convincing argument.

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I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm saying your argument is stupid. You're defending a system you don't actually enjoy, just think about that. Also, not all other MMOs have "press and wait" crafting, and again that's not really what I want. I liked the crafting in EQ2, although that was a little slow to level. Not soul-crushingly slow as 14's crafting is, but still slow. What it did have is an interactive crafting process where a player not preoccupied by drooling on his keyboard will attain a better result than one who is.

XIV's crafting system reminds me very much of EQ2s system. I think EQ2s was more involved in the mini game though. I'd love the crafting system in XIV to be something even closer to that.