Personal Housing *SHOULD* be expensive...aka Yet Another Housing Topic

Personal housing should be expensive, otherwise it utterly invalidates the lore surrounding Free Company Housing. Free Companies are allowed to buy house because the 3 cities/Grand Companies allow it as a special privilege. How much more so would it be special for an individual to purchase a house like a Free Company can afford?

There is no way that the *land* could ever be cheaper if it is in the same ward as Free Company residences. If it was it would immediately invalidate any FC purchasing plans.

Note, I said land, and the land is the only cost that has been revealed. The cost of actually buying the permit to build and building itself has not been revealed, perhaps its the same, perhaps it is less. Personally I would hope for it being a lesser amount since in my opinion personal houses should be limited to the kind of house that small FCs could afford when FC Housing was first implemented.

That leads me neatly to two questions which are burning in my mind as Free Company master;

FC Housing gives access to crafting facilities, gardening, Chocobo Stable/training and Moogle mail conveniently at the front door - among other things. Are the advantages of the Free Company housing to extend to individuals now?

And following on from that, if that is the case, then what is the point of Free Companies? You already wiped out one of the advantages by allowing individuals to buy the same plots of land and presumably houses as a whole FC (who doesn't think that will drive further RMT in this game?). So if those individual homes have all the same perks as a Free Company house, what really is the purpose of the FC?

Yoshida-san and the Dev team, please listen. You guys completely lacked pre-planning and thought when it came to the Hunt system which was a near total disaster - even with the subsequent hot fixes. And here we are again with you dropping a major new system on us which is *clearly* not through being tested, otherwise you'd have implemented what you talk about putting into 2.4, now instead.

Did it not cross your minds that allowing individual players to buy the same houses and facilities that FCs can basically undermines the entire purpose of the Free Company? Did it never cross your minds that the high prices of large and medium plots would potentially drive players to buying Gil?

This isn't exactly rocket science here, it is entirely predictable.

Now, the one ray of hope I have at the moment is that the patch notes didn't really elaborate on individual housing, and yet there has to be a separate UI for them. So there remains a lot we do not know. We don't know if the houses will be the same size, have basements, be able to host airship facilities (whenever they come) gardening, Chocobo stables/training, etc. I call it a ray of hope, but that might be too optimistic, I honestly think that someone forgot to think this through. not only that , Yoshida-san, I appreciate your letter about housing, but it honestly seems to me that you were informed by the Dev team about what would make it into 2.38 for personal housing, realized that players would be massively angry about it, and hastily wrote that letter in the hope that you could quell the angry voices with an apology. Sadly acts of contrition and apology do not work with the typical MMORPG player these days as they are too focused on themselves to realize that there is a bigger picture. That said, you are a very intelligent man, so how could you not see how this would affect the community?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

There is no way that the *land* could ever be cheaper if it is in the same ward as Free Company residences. If it was it would immediately invalidate any FC purchasing plans.

Note, I said land, and the land is the only cost that has been revealed. The cost of actually buying the permit to build and building itself has not been revealed, perhaps its the same, perhaps it is less.

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I think you answered your own question with these two lines. Same land, same permits. They didn't ever say you had to buy a separate building permit with FC Housing iirc...

Guess it's true what they say. No matter how bad something is you will always find that one person to defend it. I'm not even gonna argue with you I'm just gonna leave you with people have wanted this for a long long time now and this was entirely stupid.

Have fun with the oncoming lions an wolves.

I'm not defending it, I'm appalled by it, I'm pointing out that the lore of the game that covers personal housing makes this inevitable.

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

I think you answered your own question with these two lines. Same land, same permits. They didn't ever say you had to buy a separate building permit with FC Housing iirc...

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Re-read the patch notes, there is a distinction at the time of purchase between individual and FC. Nothing else is revealed.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm not defending it, I'm appalled by it, I'm pointing out that the lore of the game that covers personal housing makes this inevitable.

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Honestly the lore of the game is not a good reason.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Honestly the lore of the game is not a good reason.

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Why not? In a virtual world, the lore is all we have.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I'm not defending it, I'm appalled by it, I'm pointing out that the lore of the game that covers personal housing makes this inevitable.

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Lets hope then in the future they add different housing wards somewhere else. Like in far-away lands yet to be tread upon by the feet of adventurers. Where silly ideas like owning land being a special privilege only for the rich don't exist.

We'll probably have to lease the land from Moogles, though.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Why not? In a virtual world, the lore is all we have.

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Because it isn't given the situation, wrapping it around lore just sounds like nonsense. People have been wanting this for a long time and Yoshida said it will be lower than FC housing. Using lore as a means is terrible.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

Because it isn't given the situation, wrapping it around lore just sounds like nonsense. People have been wanting this for a long time and Yoshida said it will be lower than FC housing. Using lore as a means is terrible.

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The lore is about all we have, other than a very poor translation error that has everybody jumping up and down and QQing about 850k. Back when housing was first announced, it was clearly stated that the 850k shown in the demo was not the real price and that the real price was probably higher. They have also repeatedly stated that prices depend on economic conditions on the worlds themselves. Other than that, please explain why the lore does not mater, it sounds to me like you wish to ignore the internal logic of the game for your personal convenience.

Incidentally, Yoshida can say that the house will be cheaper and be perfectly correct, even if the land itself is the same price. I don't recall the patch notes indicating the costs of the house permits (it might have, I was skimming), but it did layout in detail the cost of the LAND, not the house.

Eh lore is a poor defense for what transpired. Personally, I thought they would have a general commons for people that just want a room without the need for an FC in addition to what we got. This to me would have been a fair compromise because 2.3 million players each having their own dream mansion just isn't possible.

Speaking for myself, I'm relieved player housing turned out to be FC houses for individuals. This is exactly what I've wanted since the day I laid eyes on FC mansions and I began planning/saving for months. I'm lucky enough that my hard work has paid off and will be able to afford the mansion of my dreams in just a few short hours, but to everyone that was lied to and shafted by this; you got a raw deal.

In time things will be set right, I'm sure of that but I agree the radio silence treatment for so long after they had a change of plans is pretty unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Re-read the patch notes, there is a distinction at the time of purchase between individual and FC. Nothing else is revealed.

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Going off of what you were saying: Same land means it has to be same price.
So, would it be reasonable if the SAME house was built for less gil just because it's a personal house? A Small FC house will be the same size as a Small Personal house. Why? Because it's the same land. The only difference is if you're able to buy a FC House but haven't is you make sure you buy it as the correct type of housing.
As for the building permits, Smalls run about 200k-400k for a building permit(estimated, can't remember what my FC paid). Are you saying they can charge less for an individual's home construction and not for an individual's home land?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Incidentally, Yoshida can say that the house will be cheaper and be perfectly correct, even if the land itself is the same price. I don't recall the patch notes indicating the costs of the house permits (it might have, I was skimming), but it did layout in detail the cost of the LAND, not the house.

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The 2.1 patch notes didn't say price of construction permits either...

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Originally Posted by Jodou

Eh lore is a poor defense for what transpired. Personally, I thought they would have a general commons for people that just want a room without the need for an FC in addition to what we got.

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Something like a personal chamber in a condominium style development perhaps? I agree, that is what I expected along with a 2 plot indoor garden. but throwing open the doors as they have now - without announcing an alternative available to the mass of players is just gonna piss everyone off - and is utterly predictable.

Its the same houses as FC, same plot structure, same prices. It is lazy, to say this is going to be personal housing, but then it isnt. Its just FC housing with personal housing slapped on it. Just like everything else that is supost to be new, its just a re-skin.

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

Going off of what you were saying: Same land means it has to be same price.
So, would it be reasonable if the SAME house was built for less gil just because it's a personal house? A Small FC house will be the same size as a Small Personal house. Why? Because it's the same land. The only difference is if you're able to buy a FC House but haven't is you make sure you buy it as the correct type of housing.

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Perhaps you should review construction of homes in general....You can buy the same acre of land and build a 1000 square foot ranch style home with no basement, or a two story colonial style home with a complete basement, the cost of the LAND is identical, the cost of actually preparing the land for the type of home to be built and then building the home are not.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

The lore is about all we have, other than a very poor translation error that has everybody jumping up and down and QQing about 850k. Back when housing was first announced, it was clearly stated that the 850k shown in the demo was not the real price and that the real price was probably higher. They have also repeatedly stated that prices depend on economic conditions on the worlds themselves. Other than that, please explain why the lore does not mater, it sounds to me like you wish to ignore the internal logic of the game for your personal convenience.

Incidentally, Yoshida can say that the house will be cheaper and be perfectly correct, even if the land itself is the same price. I don't recall the patch notes indicating the costs of the house permits (it might have, I was skimming), but it did layout in detail the cost of the LAND, not the house.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Personal Housing

While I cannot give a specific date on when personal housing will be implemented, I can say that prices will be completely separate from free company housing, and, naturally, far more affordable.

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If he's gonna be vague about it then he just shouldn't say anything at all. Not everything has to be logic or toss it out. People just wanted a friggin house and not have it gated behind lore and what not. You wanna talk logic? then tell me how it's completely okay to give a an answer like that. It doesn't imply otherwise! You can say it does but that answer looks cut and dry that it would and should have been affordable. And not just affordable but FAR MORE the hell does this have to do with logic he went back on is word and dropped the ball.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

If he's gonna be vague about it then he just shouldn't say anything at all.

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That particular quote is one that I would 100% agree is misleading if this 'personal housing' we are being given is what was planned all along.

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Not everything has to be logic or toss it out. People just wanted a friggin house and not have it gated behind lore and what not.

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Which more or less confirms what I said regarding lore vs convenience.

As it happens I think this is a terrible way to do personal housing, it should not share zones with FC housing at all, and should have been done using special personal housing wards and some form of enhanced version of the private chamber - which would have allowed it to be less expensive, completely avoided trampling on the whole reason for FCs to exist, and given people like you the convenience you demand. but, sadly, and for reasons that are completely unclear to me, and everyone else with half a brain, they did not chose the easy road, but instead chose to make a rod for their own back. I told you I am not defending the personal housing implementation, perhaps you should listen to me.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Perhaps you should review construction of homes in general....You can buy the same acre of land and build a 1000 square foot ranch style home with no basement, or a two story colonial style home with a complete basement, the cost of the LAND is identical, the cost of actually preparing the land for the type of home to be built and then building the home are not.

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Except we're being led to believe, by SE, that the housing is EXACTLY the same. Not a "I only want this size house so I can pay less" platform.

How about this: buy a personal house brand new with screenshot of the price when you buy it, buy the permit for the house with screenshot of the price when you buy it, then go inside and take screenshots of all four walls. Post the screenshots here.

My FC room is getting revamped again, time to lock it til done... I got better stuff to spend my gil on than overpriced personal housing.

Gameplay > Lore.

Yoshida stated Personal Housing would be completely seperate and cheaper than Free Company housing, yet in reality it's identical to FC Housing, even using the same Wards as FC Houses.

I personally don't care about the costs, I care that Yoshida straight up lied to us and didn't even bother to tell us the reality.

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

I got better stuff to spend my gil on than overpriced personal housing.

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Hi Mae:) I wish I felt like I had something I wanted to spend my money on more than a personal house but sadly this is what I had been saving for only to get completely ripped off. No way I am buying one now though...I'd rather quit to be honest.

None of this matters, personal housing shouldn't have been done this way, it was said that it wasn't going to be done this way. Plain and simple.

Yes: cheap but equivalent land has to stay expensive, otherwise:
1) Everyone wants it and they need to provide about 100 times as many lots as they have.
2) FC's would lose a big 'raison d'etre'
3) With everyone having a garden, gardening would become an expensive hobby in stead of a solid contribution to an FC's wealth.

No: direct competition between FC and individuals KILLS FCs
I went online to buy a plot 5 minutes after the server went live and all my first choices had been sold already, not just in the new wards but also in the old wards. By the time I found a decent alternative (20 minutes later), I noticed people running in and buying the first lot that had not yet sold. I bet that by tonight there will not be a single small plot left to buy, and that FCs will have to buy medium or large houses from now on. Also anyone that did not buy a small house today will have to start saving for the next land rush, which will be even more hectic since people know the drill now.

Lowering prices will just make it worse. As it is, small houses are clearly too cheap. Supply is limited by server space (plus, the more wards, the more fragmented the player community becomes). The only thing that can be done is to reduce demand, which you can only do by reducing the desirability of the housing or raising the price. I would probably have bought a house in Coerthas or Mor Dhona where I could not stable a Chocobo (we have a stable at the FC house) but I might not have bought a house where I could not garden (the garden has to pay for the house). So I imagine that you could balance housing demand at lower prices if the new type of housing did not allow for gardens and/or stables.

I fully expect that this type of decontented housing will be coming in later patches. They might even have to start FC-only wards or find some other way to fix the problem that small FCs have now: no available land left.

The bottom line is that no matter what the Lore says, no matter how cheap people may have believed it would be, what was implemented is not personal housing. It is the same housing system we already had, only opened for purchase to folks without needing to be a Free Company.

If personal housing was not viable, they should have abandoned it altogether with an explanation as to why. On my server, Balmung, there are MANY FC's that do not have a house. To sell what are essentially FC houses to individuals not only limits people due to exorbitant costs, it also shuts out FAR more people who are in a houseless FC. That ONE HOUSE could have meant rooms for hundreds of people. Instead, we have a handful of people with houses and the rest?

Too bad for them.

Poorly communicated, poorly implemented. And like it or not, it will cost them players, which will in turn affect the game as a whole.

This is about a lot more than just housing.

Lore-wise speaking...

I'm the warrior of light, they HAVE to give me a free house!
I deserved it!
I saved Eorzea, and all they do is letting me live under a bridge?
UNFAIR!!!!!1111

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

Hi Mae:) I wish I felt like I had something I wanted to spend my money on more than a personal house but sadly this is what I had been saving for only to get completely ripped off. No way I am buying one now though...I'd rather quit to be honest.

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300k is about all I'ma spend tbh, don't really need to be dropping up to 4.5mil for a house at this time. A personal room is just fine for me.

I think it comes down to this:

FCs needed special permits because they are essentially VERY well armed mercenary bands settling down in a base within city limits.

Private citizens of a city state last I looked, weren't all homeless however. Giving players individual housing apartment style would have been perfectly acceptable.

All this update did was shit all over the lore by letting players buy housing that FCs needed special sanctions to buy. You're better off buying a guild house solo than waiting for an FC to get it.

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

I think it comes down to this:

All this update did was shit all over the lore by letting players buy housing that FCs needed special sanctions to buy. You're better off buying a guild house solo than waiting for an FC to get it.

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Unfortunately agreed.

They could have done instanced housing IN the cities. Imagine paying huge amounts of gil to have an apartment that overlooked Ul'dah from up high in the tower, of that had a wonderful ocean view in Limsa. They could make the best apartments limited and have auctions for them, which would be much more effective in draining gil from the economy than this was. I just don't get what happened here.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Personal housing should be expensive, otherwise it utterly invalidates the lore surrounding Free Company Housing. Free Companies are allowed to buy house because the 3 cities/Grand Companies allow it as a special privilege. How much more so would it be special for an individual to purchase a house like a Free Company can afford?

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Actually, the lore says that it's a special privilege that's been given to adventurers, and we're adventurers. (Actually the restriction to FCs only that existed from 2.1 until today has been a bit against lore.) There are refugees that aren't allowed to buy housing, but we're heroes who have saved Eorzea time and again and are high-ranking members of a Grand Company. Being given a personal house for free would fit the lore perfectly well. (It wouldn't be suitable to the game. I'm just talking lore-wise here.) The cities have already decided that as adventurers, we're important enough to the city to have the right to buy land. What the price of that land is is completely irrelevant to that fact.

I have a feeling, that when they were about to mash that "initiate patch" button, they were joking (and knowingly expecting) among themselves, "Place your bets on how many people are gonna be pissed off about this patch lol".