Why can we only give out one player commendation?

I really do appreciate support classes for making parties viable, but I also feel bad for stiffing DPS players who do good work. Couldn't the duty finder at least automatically grant everyone in the party one commendation just for completing the dungeon? I finished a great run of BLS today with this awesome group, and we were all having fun with it and at the end of it, I really didn't know who to give my comm to. It seemed really unfair to try to single one player out of a great team effort.

You had a great party and had fun and everything worked well. Shouldn't that be enough that you all enjoyed it :P

Commendations are optional and designed to encourage playing nicely. In a perfect world, it really shouldn't exist, everyone would just be playing as a community.

I wish we could give something equivalent to the opposite of a player recommendation. Some players are so bad that it feels unjust for them to finish the dungeon without knowing how bad they truly were.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

I wish we could give something equivalent to the opposite of a player recommendation. Some players are so bad that it feels unjust for them to finish the dungeon without knowing how bad they truly were.

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I just use /disappointed.

Nothing like "You show *insert player* your utter disappointment* to hit home the fact that they left a bad impression.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

I really do appreciate support classes for making parties viable, but I also feel bad for stiffing DPS players who do good work. Couldn't the duty finder at least automatically grant everyone in the party one commendation just for completing the dungeon? I finished a great run of BLS today with this awesome group, and we were all having fun with it and at the end of it, I really didn't know who to give my comm to. It seemed really unfair to try to single one player out of a great team effort.

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I once tried to communicate to giving eachother commendations because i had a similarly experience/party like that.. once.

The deal was healer > tank, dps >dps
I was a healer then and I gave mine to the tank, etc.. Well. I ended up walking away with 3 commendations so I guess it didn't work out like I wanted to xD but it sure would have been nice if it did.

On the outside it's due to the fact a Commendation is supposed to basically be your choice for MVP of the dungeon. How many sports grant their MVP award to multiple players? On the inside it's likely more to do with them not wanting that achievement reward too easy to obtain. Them Guildhest commendation farms would go even faster if the single "random" member could Comm everyone in the party each time.

If you truly feel the multiple people did great, then thank them verbally instead. If a tank did great, say "awesome tanking!". If a healer did great, say "great healing!".

Not everything needs an incentive reward. Verbal recognition is more than enough to make others feel good.

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Originally Posted by Coatl

I wish we could give something equivalent to the opposite of a player recommendation. Some players are so bad that it feels unjust for them to finish the dungeon without knowing how bad they truly were.

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This already exists; it's called vote kick. :P

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Originally Posted by Jodou

This already exists; it's called vote kick. :P

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Vote kicking someone for being sub-par at their job makes you a bad person, not them.

I wish that on top of individual comm, they add a full party commendation. Basically it'd be listed like the players name that you can select and it'd say party. Select and all those that were in the party at the time would get the commendation. That would be the one thing that would make the system complete in my eyes. I, like the OP and many others, have been in parties that were just epic. Either in the sense where we all had a bunch of fun, we all worked well together, or the party was all around epic.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Vote kicking someone for being sub-par at their job makes you a bad person, not them.

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Not when they're beyond help and holding the team back.

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Originally Posted by Jodou

Not when they're beyond help and holding the team back.

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AFK
Harrassment
Offline
Cheating

Remind me which category "bad player" fits under.

Let me guess, you also kick level 15 tanks from Sastasha because they can't hold aggro?

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

I just use /disappointed.

Nothing like "You show *insert player* your utter disappointment* to hit home the fact that they left a bad impression.

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That just sounds mean-spirited and tacky though. I mean, unless you tried, and failed, to give them advice earlier in the run, then why even bother with nasty emotes at the end. Just letting someone know you think they're bad isn't going to improve anything if they still don't know what they're doing wrong.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Remind me which category "bad player" fits under.

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Harassment.

Sure, it's probably not verbally (though if you offer them advice, usually it will become), but when some people are playing that badly I can only assume they're trolling.

There's not knowing mechanics, or making a mistake, then there is playing the game with a Power Glove while a cat bats your keyboard and mouse around. I'd also consider it harassment for someone to keep screwing up and not say a thing; I've had plenty of parties where we wipe because of one person, and I really want to kick them, and then they apologize. I even give those people commendations, because seeing someone actually take fault in this game is pretty damn rare. Continually messing up and saying nothing is just one tiny step up from messing up and pointing the finger at someone else, in my book.

Lesson is, always offer a bad player advice, because they'll either stop sucking, or verbally assault you giving you a perfectly reasonable justification to kick them.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

AFK
Harrassment
Offline
Cheating

Remind me which category "bad player" fits under.

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Offline. Or maybe AFK. Which one would better reflect the lack of cognitive ability that seems to afflict some people?

Don't take the list of "reasons" so literally. Sometimes people are so bad they're beyond any help you could give them while in an active duty so the best solution for everyone is to just remove them. Doesn't matter if SE didn't make a specific category for "brain dead". There are so many different reasons you could (or should) remove someone, there's no way SE could list every single one so they gave us the four most common reasons used for removal.

I think it would be better to give commendation for the whole party if it was good and everyone had done their part..i don't like it the way it is i feel i could have given more than the one i had given out. I think it would be a nice addition as i have met some really lovely people...maybe it could be vote good party and everyone gets one. I feel bad on those i did not give the commendation to if they have been nice.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

AFK
Harrassment
Offline
Cheating

Remind me which category "bad player" fits under.

Let me guess, you also kick level 15 tanks from Sastasha because they can't hold aggro?

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I do agree with you.
But have you ever tried playing CT and one person dont stand on the platform making your alliance wipe three times.
Even though we tried to make him understand in all kinda ways that he shouldnt leave the platform.
He had to be kicked or we'd be stuck on tjat boss til time ran out

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Let me guess, you also kick level 15 tanks from Sastasha because they can't hold aggro?

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No, only if they consistently ignore the guy who tanks in Second Coil when he's explaining to them what they should be doing different and why. I can understand having trouble holding aggro, but if a tank is refusing outright to use Flash or even Savage Blade when the rest of the party is telling him to, that's an absolutely justified use of vote-kick.

It's not justified. You don't kick a noob tank from Sastasha for being a noob. It doesn't matter how much you want to shortcircuit the learning process and force them to understand your advice. If you know how to play, then be patient and work within noob limitations.

All kicking an inexperienced tank does is make the tank queue longer and convince one more person that tanking sucks and that tanking for strangers is even worse.

Commending the whole party would be great. Often as a tank I get more commendations than other players but would rather share them. I usually commend the healer as a matter of courtesy since it's rare that someone stands out specifically. I would prefer to distribute commendations evenly if everyone did a good job. "Commend everyone" could distribute commendations among people who weren't specifically commended. If everyone picks it, then everyone gets a commendation.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

No, only if they consistently ignore the guy who tanks in Second Coil when he's explaining to them what they should be doing different and why. I can understand having trouble holding aggro, but if a tank is refusing outright to use Flash or even Savage Blade when the rest of the party is telling him to, that's an absolutely justified use of vote-kick.

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Yep, you are the exact kind of player I loathe.

A tanks very first dungeon ever, in all of Final Fantasy XIV, and he gets kicked by some twat of a lvl 50 player just because he's having trouble learning how to play his class?
Do me a favour and never queue for low-level roulette ever again.

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Originally Posted by Sakuraluna

That just sounds mean-spirited and tacky though. I mean, unless you tried, and failed, to give them advice earlier in the run, then why even bother with nasty emotes at the end. Just letting someone know you think they're bad isn't going to improve anything if they still don't know what they're doing wrong.

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Don't take it the wrong way, I'm one of the nicest and most tolerant players you will come across. I always offer any advice I possibly can, no matter how much difficulty someone is having.
I'll spend an entire dungeon's duration explaining fights and helping newbies if I have to. If I didn't have the patience to deal with it, I wouldn't queue. That's my philosophy.

However, when you come across those who insult you when you offer advice, and refuse to learn, then I will use /disappointed and leave it at that.

You know the types I mean.
"Hey, did you know that Heavy Thrust gives +15% damage? It'll help your DPS a lot! :)"
"F*ck off noob, don't tell me how to play my class"

Those kinds of players.

*Edit*
Oops, double post.

If you could vote everyone, some people would probably feel down when they didn't get a commendation. As it is now you just assume it went to someone else or they didn't vote. You may still feel down but at least there are some legitimate other reasons. I've had a few runs where I loved everyone so I said so, wish I could offer them a commendation but I just had to choose the player that was "if I didn't have you this run it wouldn't have worked/been the same".

Although maybe I'd suggest some sort of chance / unpredictable system that gives another commendation to give. Maybe you can keep some of the depressing notions out of it but also let players vote on more than one person, chance relating to size of party.

Other than that I'd start thinking of other systems, like at the end of each earth day or week you get mail from an unknown sender with gifts of karma. In this way you allow everyone to vote for everyone*, but it would be quite hard to know - so unless you had a week of being a terribly rude player you'd get some number of karma and be none the wiser. Certainly a more complicated solution to a problem that I doubt everyone will see as an issue, but I would think checking your mail frequently in habit could be a "cute" habit. Getting mail from NPC in WoW was a -very- neat feature imo, I really enjoyed that. Obviously achievements would need to be scaled according to the amount of points you could earn..

tl;dr - that's okay :P

I think one is fine and at the end say something like "great party, had fun, everyone was awesome :)" or something like that.

I've done tank runs and explicitly said at the start it's my first time tanking x dungeon. And at the end some people say I did an amazing job, that left more of an impression on me than some commendation :)

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Vote kicking someone for being sub-par at their job makes you a bad person, not them.

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Depends. If he consistently wipes the group despite explanations and tips, a vote kick is justified.

@Topic: Yes I dislike the commendations system, esp in those runs where I feel that everyone did a good job.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

A tanks very first dungeon ever, in all of Final Fantasy XIV, and he gets kicked by some twat of a lvl 50 player just because he's having trouble learning how to play his class?
Do me a favour and never queue for low-level roulette ever again.

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Do ME a favor and read my posts before you decide to bawl me out. I'm talking about people who outright refuse to listen to a single word of advice when someone with a literal year of experience is trying to explain to them how and WHY things need to be done. "You need to use Flash or the other mobs will beeline for the healer." "Riot Blade is actually crappy at picking up enmity, you should use Fast and then Savage Blade instead." "Try marking the mobs so the DPS know which one you're focusing hate on." When I spend fifteen minutes explaining these things over and over and the tank insists on doing nothing but spamming Fast+Riot, I have every right to boot him out.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

He had to be kicked or we'd be stuck on tjat boss til time ran out

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This is the situation where I do think there should be a kick option for incompetence. Unfortunately there's no way to implement it without it being horribly abused, such as elitist snobs kicking people in dungeons for not being iLevel100, or kicking people on DF runs that give the group a myth bonus.
But it's also something I wish they WOULD add...but only for the 24 person raids, and it initiates a vote from the entire raid. Because in CT, there are times when a full team is either staggeringly incompetent, or outright trolling the raid...and you can't do anything about it because they're not in your group. It's a really exasperating experience, as you're forced to choose between compensating for the dead weight, or leaving the raid and requeueing for the amount of time it would take to clear the zone.

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Originally Posted by Pyreflye

Let me guess, you also kick level 15 tanks from Sastasha because they can't hold aggro?

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Nah, I fully expect to rip hate off tanks even when they do flash and mark targets because low-level threat generation can be awful (especially against pro dps ;)). Good tanks stand out and get my commendation though.

There have been times where I wish I could give everyone in my a commendation, and I often tell those in my party this. "Man, I wish I could give everybody a commendation. It was such a joy playing with you folks."

But since I cannot give everyone in my party a commendation for not only playing well, but for not behaving like a complete tool, I tend to give my commendation to a fellow damage dealer (knowing that tanks and healers get most of the votes, often based on being a tank/ healer rather than their performance). The only times I don't is if the other damage dealer performed poorly or they left before I could give them my vote.

What happened to typing your appreciation? Why do we need extra commendations. Communicate!

I think it's fine as it is now: optional and can be used for little things in game. SE should never give big rewards for commendation currency. It will ruin its purpose.

If anything, I'd fancy the opposite of commendations. As people already mentioned, sometimes people have no clue about either the content or their job. Not the worst thing, but then they don't communicate. I think communication is key in an MMO.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

Why do we need extra commendations. Communicate!

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Exactly;

"Player A, commend Player B, Player B, commend Player C, etc.", we already have an option for giving everyone a commendation.