R50 Weapons: Halberd vs Lance vs Guisarme

Has anyone compared/tested the four r50 weapons yet?

Iron Halberd (+1)
Accuracy: 150 (157)
Attack: 169 (177)
Critical: 142 (149)

Lominsan Halberd
Accuracy: 151
Attack: 172
Critical: 143
Attributes: + 20HP, + 3STR

Champion's Lance (+1)
Accuracy: 135 (141)
Attack: 177 (186)
Critical: 146 (153)

Canopus Guisarm
Accuracy: 146
Attack: 176
Critical: 136
Attributes: + 2PIE, + 3DEX, +4EVA

Currently I am using the Lominsian Halberd. I'll be switching to Canopus Guisarm if I ever get it. Its still not as good as the Champions +3 through (which will have about 145 acc, 203 atk, 167 Crit). That seems to be the general trend with the new drops / rewards - They are as good as the crafted items +1 or +2, but not as good as the +3. The advantage that Canopus has is the 70% Piercing, 20% Bashing, 10% Slashing, where as the Champion's Lance is 100% Piercing. Mostly this lets you put out more damage against things like undead, which are susceptible to bashing damage. Canopus also has the +3dex and +3eva, the former of which is great for a dex build LNC (which I prefer - for fights like the Ogre, hitting your WS to stun his is more important than shelling out large amounts of damage, IMO).

Really, it comes down to play style. Are you more interested in damage output? Go with the Champions +3. Are you more interested in hitting? Canopus is the way to go.

I dont have the drive right now to go the extra mile for a better weapon since the effect most likely wont even be noticeable and will probbably be replaced in not too long down the line. So i chose to go the cheap route and just bought an iron halberd in preparation of my final rank up. Hitting wise the HQ Iron halberd wins but im sure its quite expensive just like a hq champions lance.

Well i have a Champions Lancer +1 and i dont seem to have much problem anymore with Missing all the time i think they Fixed it now SO i would like to have Canopus Guisarm for mobs like undead and stuff that isnt good for Piercing damage.. But all in All the Champions Will be my main weapon for now still has best Att and Crit...

How come you didnt list the banneret lance +1? XD

I prefer Banneret over Halberd.

And for the most part, for all the new weapons for all classes, they are only better if you don't have +2 or 3 of the other weapons. They almost kinda even at +1 as well.

Canopus has +10 style....so I'm going to have to say my canopus!
http://tinyurl.com/3l8uzs9

Got my Canopus yesterday and I really think it's just for show... of all the r50 weapons we've got it has the worst attributes (also I thinks it's really awfull, but well it's still a Batraal drop, i'm gonna use it to show off ù.ù).

If you've got only nq weapons, IMHO Lominsan is the best one, it's got less attack and crit than Champion's, but the difference is quite little compared to the difference in accuracy. And yes, I happen to miss and during BR it's really annoying >.>

Btw, the Piety on Canopus is really bugging me, what the hell is it for? o.O

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Got my Canopus yesterday and I really think it's just for show... of all the r50 weapons we've got it has the worst attributes (also I thinks it's really awfull, but well it's still a Batraal drop, i'm gonna use it to show off ù.ù).

If you've got only nq weapons, IMHO Lominsan is the best one, it's got less attack and crit than Champion's, but the difference is quite little compared to the difference in accuracy. And yes, I happen to miss and during BR it's really annoying >.>

Btw, the Piety on Canopus is really bugging me, what the hell is it for? o.O

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They're just for show -now-. It really depends on what they do with stats/jobs in 1.19/1.20. As for now, the +3s are better, the +1/+2 are fairly similar.

Also, PTY helps with sticking DoTs, so this may also apply to something like Comrade in Arms. I'm not sure if it would help something like Moonrise stick, although it's very possible.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Also, PTY helps with sticking DoTs, so this may also apply to something like Comrade in Arms. I'm not sure if it would help something like Moonrise stick, although it's very possible.

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Uhm that's interesting, I knew Piety was related to DoT, but I've never thought about Moonrise or Comrade in Arms... But this is gonna be really hard to test :S it would be nice to know wich stat affects every skill by an official source.

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Originally Posted by Alcide

Uhm that's interesting, I knew Piety was related to DoT, but I've never thought about Moonrise or Comrade in Arms... But this is gonna be really hard to test :S it would be nice to know wich stat affects every skill by an official source.

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I agree. But it's definitely known the PTY affects magic DoTs & Weaponskill DoTs (Skull Sunder, Bloodletter). So that's where I got my reasoning from, may be completely off but it would make sense. I unfortunately haven't tested to see if any of that holds true, and I'm not sure if Moonrise even misses if the attack lands... too much testing, and I enjoy beer/summertime too much.

Hmmm. Does it make DoTs (in other classes) stick -longer- or just easier? 'Cause if it sticks longer, I could certainly see the application to something like CiA and MR. As it is though, I'm not sure I ever noticed CiA or MR not sticking. So far as I can tell, they always stick, or the fail rate is so low as to be negligible. I'd be more interested in Leg Sweep honestly; up that stun a few more seconds.

Whether or not PIE helps with LNC debuffs, a +2 modifier is negligible under the current stat system.

Post 1.18, accuracy isn't as big of an issue as it has been. At this point, I think the only thing that really matters is the raw attack value of the weapon. Thus, the Champion's Lance +1 is the best IMO. Even the NQ version is probably better than anything else.

I'm sure all of this will change at 1.19, though.

I was looking these weapons for the sake of curiosity...I think Hauberds have an edge over lances due the belanced damage type, which offers a more constant damage against any enemy with both basic attacks and WSs and also having a much better delay. This makes, IMO lominsan Hauberd the overall best weapon.

Champion is great too, but the thing is actually getting the HQ version of it...if you can and will focus on piercing damage, its the best one...if not, i agree with Scape...Bannaret is actually a better option due 100% piercing and a better chance of finding +2/3 for a decent price.

I don't like Guisarme...its damage type isn't good (would be way better is the 20% blunt were also slashing) so, by looking to it, damage type, effects...i'd say its more of a solo weapon. With evasion bonus, DEX, PIE and an weapon that has blunt damage over slashing they are saying "Hey, go solo a bit...we will support your evasion setup so you can succefully use cross class damage negation and retaliation actions".

Not sure why anyone would want to use the new Guisarme or a halberd over the Champions lance even not HQ'ed for any reason other then on skellies/crabs.

They are easier to get than Champions, is the answer that most readily comes to mind. The others make good interim weapons because they are free.

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

They are easier to get than Champions, is the answer that most readily comes to mind. The others make good interim weapons because they are free.

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Exactly this. Champion, specially if HQ, is terribly expensive if compared to the others.

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

Currently I am using the Lominsian Halberd. I'll be switching to Canopus Guisarm if I ever get it. Its still not as good as the Champions +3 through (which will have about 145 acc, 203 atk, 167 Crit). That seems to be the general trend with the new drops / rewards - They are as good as the crafted items +1 or +2, but not as good as the +3. The advantage that Canopus has is the 70% Piercing, 20% Bashing, 10% Slashing, where as the Champion's Lance is 100% Piercing. Mostly this lets you put out more damage against things like undead, which are susceptible to bashing damage. Canopus also has the +3dex and +3eva, the former of which is great for a dex build LNC (which I prefer - for fights like the Ogre, hitting your WS to stun his is more important than shelling out large amounts of damage, IMO).

Really, it comes down to play style. Are you more interested in damage output? Go with the Champions +3. Are you more interested in hitting? Canopus is the way to go.

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I'm not sure how you can say go with Canopus if you like hitting stuff. Even an NQ Iron Halberd has better accuracy then Canopus (150 vs 146). My Iron Halberd +2 gives me a base 165 accuracy, which beats even a +3 Champion's Lance for accuracy (which has only 156).

I personally prefer hitting things, so I've gone with the Iron Halberd.

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Originally Posted by Amineri

I'm not sure how you can say go with Canopus if you like hitting stuff. Even an NQ Iron Halberd has better accuracy then Canopus (150 vs 146). My Iron Halberd +2 gives me a base 165 accuracy, which beats even a +3 Champion's Lance for accuracy (which has only 156).

I personally prefer hitting things, so I've gone with the Iron Halberd.

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with 1.18 hitting things is no longer an issue.

also take in consideration the delay of the weapon ...

some are 3.5s , other 3.7s...

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Originally Posted by OptimalZedd

also take in consideration the delay of the weapon ...

some are 3.5s , other 3.7s...

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Yup. That's why i said IMO lominsan hauberd is the overall best current polearm.

Non-lance weapons are absolutely horrible against everything except bones and crabs. And even in a bone-heavy area like the second floor of DH, you are still better off using either a Banneret NQ/+1/+2/+3 or a Champion's. Banneret +1 is better than Champion's NQ.

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

They are easier to get than Champions, is the answer that most readily comes to mind. The others make good interim weapons because they are free.

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ahh gotcha.

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Originally Posted by carraway

Non-lance weapons are absolutely horrible against everything except bones and crabs. And even in a bone-heavy area like the second floor of DH, you are still better off using either a Banneret NQ/+1/+2/+3 or a Champion's. Banneret +1 is better than Champion's NQ.

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I'm sorry but I fail to understand this, IMHO Lominsan's stats are much better than Champion's or Benneret's, why should I choose one of those two just because of the 100%piercing over the 40%piercing, 40%slashing, 20%blunt of the Lominsan?

(I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying trying to learn something :P)

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Originally Posted by Alcide

I'm sorry but I fail to understand this, IMHO Lominsan's stats are much better than Champion's or Benneret's, why should I choose one of those two just because of the 100%piercing over the 40%piercing, 40%slashing, 20%blunt of the Lominsan?

(I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying trying to learn something :P)

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because champions has 5 more attack and 3 more crit and aside from skellies and crabs (who are strong against piercing damage) the 100% pierce makes you deal more damage. I'd much rather that then the more acc, parry, 30 health and 5 str since 5 str does not equate to 5 attack, and you miss a lot less since 1.18, and as Lancer I'm rarely the focus of hate so the more parry means nothing to me.

So when it comes down to it I guess it is what you are going for in your build.

max damage = Champions Lance
mix of damage = Liminsan Halberd
more survivability = Canopus Guisarme

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Originally Posted by Alcide

I'm sorry but I fail to understand this, IMHO Lominsan's stats are much better than Champion's or Benneret's, why should I choose one of those two just because of the 100%piercing over the 40%piercing, 40%slashing, 20%blunt of the Lominsan?

(I'm not saying you're wrong, just trying trying to learn something :P)

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The damage type affects directly the WS and basic actions damage. So no lance can have better WS damage than a 100% piercing polearm. The thing is that LNC actually have some slashing WS too...and most of cross-class WS aren't piercing.

So when you focus on a 100% piercing damage you're seeking optimal WS damage with its native WSs, like chaos Thrusts and Doomspike. But weapons with only one type of damage actually have other damage types penalized...you can see this at PGL too...that's why PGL weapons rarely are 100% blunt...because the class has elemental and piercing damage. When you pick a 100% blunt weapon you will pur some heavy penalty over Victimize (since it has piercing damage) but you can use even cross class blunt WSs more effectively, like brutal swing or fracture. This difference is easily saw with brutal swing II...it does is a "brutal" WS...it was designed for MRD average blunt damage (20~30%) so when you use it as PGL just the blunt bonus (90~100%) is enough to make it outdamage native WSs like Concussive blow II.

But its all situational. You need to think if the enemy is weak to piercing (like peistes) so a 100% piercing polearm would be way better than any other or if you think you will need slashing damage (for moonrise, cross class slashing WSs or monsters weak to slashing like most seedkin).

Another point is that a 100% piercing weapon leaves you in a bad situation id the monster is resistant to piercing (don't remind any right now...maybe they just didn't add ons yet to prevent LNC from being like FFXI DRG, where many of the high level monsters were resistant to piercing) so i actually like having weapon with different damage types in it.