What-if Ruin was an Auto-attack

Wouldn't it be better to make Ruin an Auto-attack? it would make playing SMN, so much easier. The potency of a normal melee dps is 75 and ruin is only 80, so it wouldn't be that big of a differents. Plus it would help on the trash adds like the one's on the last boss in Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard). And at what point is SMN will be close enough to use there current auto-attack?

Somethin somethin SMN too OP as is.

Well, it already feels like one.

But then I'd want smack-something-with-your-book to become an active skill. It's too hilarious to get rid of it entirely.

Totally for throwing your book like a boomerang.

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

Totally for throwing your book like a boomerang.

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Paper cut damage!

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

Totally for throwing your book like a boomerang.

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Something like this, maybe?

Summoners already have an auto attack in the form of their pets.

Have u ever played smn? Its auto isn't its pet

Mages dont get legit autoattacks because of the higher Weapon dmg on their gear. For the i115 weapons its 53 WD for physical classes (minus brd) and 77 WD for mages. The auto attacks even the difference out. If you'd add an autoatatck to SMN you would have to nerf the WD down to the melee levels which would effect all your regular spells.

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Originally Posted by ChaozK

Mages dont get legit autoattacks because of the higher Weapon dmg on their gear. For the i115 weapons its 53 WD for physical classes (minus brd) and 77 WD for mages. The auto attacks even the difference out. If you'd add an autoatatck to SMN you would have to nerf the WD down to the melee levels which would effect all your regular spells.

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This makes alot of sense, but the WD on the mage's weapon is Magic Damage. All they would have to do is slightly buff the magic defense on the enemy, so it would even out.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

This makes alot of sense, but the WD on the mage's weapon is Magic Damage. All they would have to do is slightly buff the magic defense on the enemy, so it would even out.

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No they would add a physical damage stat to mage weapons. But really, casters do not need auto attacks of any form our balance. They cast spells, that's why they are spell casters. If you play an attacker, such as monk, then you get attacks.

If Ruin was an auto-attack, what would we do in-between casting our DOTs?

I would miss the 20-30 DPS gain from smacking mobs within melee range with my book.

In most end game fights, I am usually close enough to auto attack, so I think I'd actually lose damage if this happened.

I sure would enjoy standing around twiddling my thumbs waiting for it to be time to reapply dots if this were a thing.
"It was make playing SMN so much easier"
lol

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

This makes alot of sense, but the WD on the mage's weapon is Magic Damage. All they would have to do is slightly buff the magic defense on the enemy, so it would even out.

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If monster defense were a thing in this game. AFAIK, everything takes the same amount of damage unless modified by buffs/debuffs. (e.g. Disseminate from snakes in Turn 5)

No, because I actually auto attack too.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

This makes alot of sense, but the WD on the mage's weapon is Magic Damage. All they would have to do is slightly buff the magic defense on the enemy, so it would even out.

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And here is why you shouldn't come up with balance ideas. Are you forgetting about all of the other spell casters? IF Enemies had Magic Defence in this game, how would increasing it to help balance SMN with Ruin AA, when there are other casters, make sense?

That's right, it doesn't make sense. Unless you are suggesting all of the spells in this game get increased potency to make up for it. All just so SMN has less to do and sits AAing after DoTs. Which till makes no sense.

SMNs don't AA while casting. Which is why they spam Ruin2 while in melee range for the DPS buff.

I just wish I didn't have to turn AA on and it was automatic like a melee job.

isnt ruin potency 110 due to maim and mend?

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

SMNs don't AA while casting. Which is why they spam Ruin2 while in melee range for the DPS buff.

I just wish I didn't have to turn AA on and it was automatic like a melee job.

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I'm not sure when it changed, but I seem to AA while casting now.

I agree about AA though. I put the AA skill on my bar cause right clicking on the mob got annoying. Another indication of AA would be nice too, as it's hard to tell on tall bosses.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

I'm not sure when it changed, but I seem to AA while casting now.

I agree about AA though. I put the AA skill on my bar cause right clicking on the mob got annoying. Another indication of AA would be nice too, as it's hard to tell on tall bosses.

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You can actually right click on the mob's hp/aggro bar and you only need to click on it once throughout the entire fight even if you move out of melee range and back in again. The only time you need to reclick is if you switch targets.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

You can actually right click on the mob's hp/aggro bar and you only need to click on it once throughout the entire fight even if you move out of melee range and back in again. The only time you need to reclick is if you switch targets.

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Too much effort for me lol. I end up clicking off the mob by accident. Although I haven't tried clicking the aggro bar.

Most fights I have to switch targets unfortunately.

Thanks though.

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

isnt ruin potency 110 due to maim and mend?

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Garuda's main spell is 100potency and it hits (on my smn i106 about 250-260 and my ruins hits 230-240. So that would imply no. Unless we consider that garuda gets the buff also, but I don't remember what maim and mend trait does so I can't really tell.

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Originally Posted by Judge_Xero

If Ruin was an auto-attack, what would we do in-between casting our DOTs?

I would miss the 20-30 DPS gain from smacking mobs within melee range with my book.

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I guess its just me and my dot rotation that made me want a AA ruin. My rotation goes like:

BIO 2, Miasma, BIO, Fester/Bane, Miasma 2, Buff Pet as i retreat to a safe distance, Shadowflare.

After i drop Shadowflare or Ruin (if i have enough time) it should be time to reapply dots, so for reapply i do:

Bio, miasma 2, Miasma, Bio2, reapply Bio, Bane/Fester, Miasma 2 retreat while Buffing Pet then i Ruin if Shadowflare is still up.
Rinse then repeat.

Its a weird rotation that i came up with, but I can only ruin once or twin after my reapply rotation.

You should be using contagion when its up, and only using M2 if you use contagion. You shouldn't be needing to "retreat to a safe distance" either, already be standing where you should be. Swiftcast shadow flare and buff pet while you're on CD from that and you won't waste any time. Even without contagion you should be getting at least 4 ruins in before needing to reapply any dots

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Originally Posted by Madoka

..Even without contagion you should be getting at least 4 ruins in before needing to reapply any dots

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That. And also, on your "reapply" part. You say you're buffing your pet again, but if you used both Rouse and Spur on 1st DoTs you wouldn't have either off CD yet.

I'd suggest that you should go on internet and google some summoner guide(s) (can't say rotation, cause there really isn't one after the "opener rotation"). If you want to get a bit better at dpsing on summoner that is.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

You should be using contagion when its up, and only using M2 if you use contagion. You shouldn't be needing to "retreat to a safe distance" either, already be standing where you should be. Swiftcast shadow flare and buff pet while you're on CD from that and you won't waste any time. Even without contagion you should be getting at least 4 ruins in before needing to reapply any dots

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Also this. M2 is only ever a DPS increase if you can contagion it or if there is more then one mob, otherwise a Ruin has 10 potency over it.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

So... ninja SMN nerf for good SMN players? Look, i understand there are a lot of bad SMN out there, its proved everytime i venture on the forums but seriously......



Also this. M2 is only ever a DPS increase if you can contagion it or if there is more then one mob, otherwise a Ruin has 10 potency over it.

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Or the mob is about to jump. Besides Nael.

Making Ruin into a auto attack would, from a design standpoint, be a terrible idea. The amount of downtime that would be added to the SMN's rotation would make the class boring and lackluster to play. Look at every DPS job in the game, Dragoon, Monk, Black Mage, Bard, and Summoner: unless the melee are out of TP (which should rarely if ever happen) or the summoner is out of mana (again, should never happen) all these classes always have something to press, which makes the game more engaging and interesting. If you took away ruin as a cast and turned it into the auto attack it would make the SMN just pure unfun to play. And considering the amount of rage I see at SMN's design in the first place, that's something that would not be healthy.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

So... ninja SMN nerf for good SMN players? Look, i understand there are a lot of bad SMN out there, its proved everytime i venture on the forums but seriously......



Also this. M2 is only ever a DPS increase if you can contagion it or if there is more then one mob, otherwise a Ruin has 10 potency over it.

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I see where your coming from I'll try to keep Miasma 2 to mobs and contagion. More Ruin less miasma 2 cool. What about Ruin 2? I never find a use for it.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

I see where your coming from I'll try to keep Miasma 2 to mobs and contagion. More Ruin less miasma 2 cool. What about Ruin 2? I never find a use for it.

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Ruin II is great when you can sustain the mana to fit in autos buut in most endgame fights you will be amazingly mana starved if you just spam Ruin II.
Its real use is before you use an off-GCD (aka before you use Fester drop a RuinII so the GCD is cooling down while you use the off GCD. Same applies to the pet buffs.)