Darkhold expert mode?

What you guys think about an expert mode in darkhold where 2 eyes are running around all the dungeon, more dificult bosses, etc and as reward, same gear but +1 and as requisite to enter: kill batral

This sure needed its own thread. -.-

Get 5 chests within a single run.

There's your expert mode.

I think it's a great idea.

I think expert mode should have the 1st and 2nd eye running around throughout the whole dungeon, including the ogre fight, the ogre rages within 5 minutes instead of 10, there should be twice the mobs, all mob levels are increased by 10-20 ranks, batraal's HP is increased by 6 fold, batraal puts up his invisible barrier 3 times more often, and you have to do it all within 30 minutes instead of 60 minutes ;)

bad idea. no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

bad idea. no thanks.

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explain why, u can do it if u like, or not if u dont like; but why is bad?

MystinaValeth, you have a very cool Sig, i was wondering if you could tell me how you do that, or if you could make one for me.

Oh thanks Alpha_Zeon ^-^ The signature was created using photoshop and took over 6 hours to make and was very hard >< Sorry but I'm even reluctant on making sigs for my friends in my linkshell due to how time consuming and difficult it can be sometimes… x.x

It is the best looking sig I've seen so far. On topic though having a harder difficulty option kind of how leves have star difficulty wOuld be nice

Id rather see the time spent on expanding the Dungeon with harder areas an things like:

- Goals inside that means if you clear X the timer increases
- Once some goals are achieved More mobs or imperials enter the areas you have cleared (the way to you have to go get to the added areas)
- Mobs don't all reset and need to be cleared (mob amount/timer fix'd to allow this for current mobs/bosses)
- Dynamic bosses (you get different ones out of a pool of them some casters some melee, some 2 mobs or even 3 with differing rewards).
- Boss environmental's
- - - Untill the oger is kiled all mobs deal + fire damage
- - - After new bosses are spawned X resistants is reduced and mobs deal Y elemental damage with attacks.
- - - (example) Occasional elemental cyclones blow along the tunnels (adding to the eyes as issue) players can avoid by ducking into side tunnels or may be picked up and droped along its path (mobs effected to but with a lower % chance)

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

explain why, u can do it if u like, or not if u dont like; but why is bad?

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we have enough elitists that hackle those who can't complete the current dungeon. If they add in the OP's idea, it will just make them worse and will, imo, ruin the community. Besides, the dev team's time is better spent on adding in new content rather than just adding different difficulty levels to content already in the game.

if u think u can erase elitist people just not adding more dificult content u are seriously innocent. They will be always, and u have to live with it.

I think we need fast content, and reusing actual dungeons and add diferent dificulty levels is faster than wait them to create 5 diferent dungeons. I dont know if i am elitist or not, but i like people who are interested to play their jobs as good as they can. As i said, if u dont like to join partys who are going dungeons in expert mode u dont need to join them. What we need is fast content right now, we cant ask to them to create lots of dungeons, when they are trying to fix jobs, combat system, economy, etc.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

if u think u can erase elitist people just not adding more dificult content u are seriously innocent. They will be always, and u have to live with it.

I think we need fast content, and reusing actual dungeons and add diferent dificulty levels is faster than wait them to create 5 diferent dungeons. I dont know if i am elitist or not, but i like people who are interested to play their jobs as good as they can. As i said, if u dont like to join partys who are going dungeons in expert mode u dont need to join them. What we need is fast content right now, we cant ask to them to create lots of dungeons, when they are trying to fix jobs, combat system, economy, etc.

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this has been a major problem since the start of this game. Reusing old content is not the same as adding new content. Adding a new difficulty level is not the same as adding a new dungeon. With that said, do you know how many players will actually go through with this? If 280 players have actually completed the dungeon, maybe half of those would actually do the "expert" mode. Making content for 140 players is just a waste of time and money. We need new content, not reused content. It will make the elitists worse. So far, they are manageable, but if this goes through, things will look like this *walks in with NQ dungeon gear* "lololololol u noob so bad not have HQ dungeon gear noob so bad can't do hard mode noob only want ez mode lolololol such noob is bad noob is bad noob." We don't need to give elitists more of a reason to insult other players -.-

See dub I always felt lucky the people i played with never really cared what gear i had as long as i did my job. My goal was get as good as i can to contribute more. However i never really got into those mmos and games where the elitist type of players harassed you. I know xi had its fair share and xiv will prolly but i am in agreement with ya its best to make the content as available as possible to all players. I do feel there should be some content in the game that is super tough.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

we have enough elitists that hackle those who can't complete the current dungeon. If they add in the OP's idea, it will just make them worse and will, imo, ruin the community. Besides, the dev team's time is better spent on adding in new content rather than just adding different difficulty levels to content already in the game.

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Elitists who "hackle" others...

You mean "hackling", like your "jealous" statement in this post, and in this post for someone suggesting a cap on dungeons to make them more challenging at-level? Is that the kind of "hackling" you're referring to Dubont?

You're being just a tad hypocritical don't you think?

How about I throw your "logic" back at you? Would you be "jealous" that there are others who would be willing and/or able to clear a dungeon on a harder difficulty level?

Dubont, it's kinda funny following your posts. In thread after thread after thread, your replies always come down on the side of "making or keeping the content easier".

- Dungeons shouldn't be capped so it's easier to farm gear for lower level classes.
-There shouldn't be a possibility for a harder or "expert mode"on dungeons, because you're afraid people might "hackle" you about not completing them.
- If I recall, you were one of the people calling for the Ogre fight, or some part of that dungeon, to be made easier because it was too difficult... even as others were clearing it.

As for people "hackling" you over a video game. People should be refused some additional challenge/content because people "might say mean things to you" for not doing it? Seriously.. who cares? They're idiots acting big on the internet. Grow a thicker skin and ignore 'em.

If people would like a more difficult mode to complete dungeons on, then - so long as SE agrees with it - what's the problem with it? More stuff to do is more stuff to do. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. Simple.

10+ replies later and the facts haven't changed. The game already has an expert mode that differs from other games (in a good way), they need to flesh it out more to stand out. There is no need for expert mode of other MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Elitists who "hackle" others...

You mean "hackling", like your "jealous" statement in this post, and in this post for someone suggesting a cap on dungeons to make them more challenging at-level? Is that the kind of "hackling" you're referring to Dubont?

You're being just a tad hypocritical don't you think?

How about I throw your "logic" back at you? Would you be "jealous" that there are others who would be willing and/or able to clear a dungeon on a harder difficulty level?

Dubont, it's kinda funny following your posts. In thread after thread after thread, your replies always come down on the side of "making or keeping the content easier".

- Dungeons shouldn't be capped so it's easier to farm gear for lower level classes.
-There shouldn't be a possibility for a harder or "expert mode"on dungeons, because you're afraid people might "hackle" you about not completing them.
- If I recall, you were one of the people calling for the Ogre fight, or some part of that dungeon, to be made easier because it was too difficult... even as others were clearing it.

As for people "hackling" you over a video game. People should be refused some additional challenge/content because people "might say mean things to you" for not doing it? Seriously.. who cares? They're idiots acting big on the internet. Grow a thicker skin and ignore 'em.

If people would like a more difficult mode to complete dungeons on, then - so long as SE agrees with it - what's the problem with it? More stuff to do is more stuff to do. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. Simple.

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the "if you don't like it, don't do it" argument never works. It really didn't work in FFXI. Example: Player X goes to a ground king fight with DRK. He shows up in a Hauberk. His team sees that he doesn't have Adaman Hauberk. *kick* Yeah, that works well. Yes, I made a thread about problems with the game and one of them was in regards to the ogre's tp spam at the start of the fight. With proper tank-to-mage coordination, we figured out a way around that, yet I would still change a few things on the dungeon itself. I want challenging content. I always have, but there are some things that just shouldn't be. The r25 dungeon is mid level content and is similar to Dynamis. Dynamis did not have a level cap. This "expert" mode is not new content. It is just reusing old content and making way for more elitist derps that do nothing BUT play the game. No, I wouldn't be jealous if there were others that would like to do the dungeon on a harder level, but if they want to have more of a challenge on existing content, they could run in with a group of 45s with only 1 healer. How's that for expert mode?

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

What you guys think about an expert mode in darkhold where 2 eyes are running around all the dungeon, more dificult bosses, etc and as reward, same gear but +1 and as requisite to enter: kill batral

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All this AND the inability to despawn mobs? Awesome sauce^^ but definitely take out time requirement for last chest :P Beating hard mode in itself should be good enough hehe

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Originally Posted by MystinaValeth

Oh thanks Alpha_Zeon ^-^ The signature was created using photoshop and took over 6 hours to make and was very hard >< Sorry but I'm even reluctant on making sigs for my friends in my linkshell due to how time consuming and difficult it can be sometimes… x.x

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Did that really take you 6 hours? I mean it's good but 6 hours sounds like a lot of time...

Alpha, If you really want one I can make you one. Don't judge mine I just whipped it up on my break at work.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

the "if you don't like it, don't do it" argument never works. It really didn't work in FFXI. Example: Player X goes to a ground king fight with DRK. He shows up in a Hauberk. His team sees that he doesn't have Adaman Hauberk. *kick* Yeah, that works well.

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Umm... what?

I'm sorry, did the discussion suddenly change rails at some point between my post and yours?

We're talking about an optional "difficult" version of a given dungeon for people who might be interested in doing it in XIV. You suddenly come out of the blue with talk about not having the proper gear for a HNM fight in XI.

One has nothing to do with the other.

"If you don't like it, don't do it" is perfectly appropriate. Each and every player makes their own decisions on whether or not something is interesting enough to them to partake in or not. Each and every activity presents every single player with the same requirements and risks for the same possible rewards. No one is given special treatment. Some find it interesting enough to dedicate time to participating in. Others don't.

If an "expert mode" is added to dungeons and you don't find it to be worth your while, then don't join expert mode runs. Join normal difficulty runs instead.

That *you* personally wouldn't want to do something is not a reason to not provide to others who would. The game does not revolve around you and what you do or don't want.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Yes, I made a thread about problems with the game and one of them was in regards to the ogre's tp spam at the start of the fight. With proper tank-to-mage coordination, we figured out a way around that, yet I would still change a few things on the dungeon itself. I want challenging content. I always have, but there are some things that just shouldn't be. The r25 dungeon is mid level content and is similar to Dynamis. Dynamis did not have a level cap. This "expert" mode is not new content. It is just reusing old content and making way for more elitist derps that do nothing BUT play the game. No, I wouldn't be jealous if there were others that would like to do the dungeon on a harder level, but if they want to have more of a challenge on existing content, they could run in with a group of 45s with only 1 healer. How's that for expert mode?

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"More elitist derps"...? You are seriously way too hung up up on the whole "elitist" thing. "Oh, they're able to do more difficult content than I am or want to... They must be elitist derps..."

Using different party set ups, or going with lower level characters would be ways to run the dungeon in both normal and "difficult" mode. One does not preclude the other. That's not the same as having a harder difficulty level.

A more difficult mode could present different monster setups, placing tougher monsters in more challenging arrangements, it could require more complex and choreographed boss strategies. It could include more difficult requirements to spawn all the chests. It would be a more challenging presentation of the entire dungeon, not just "making what's already there harder".

Seriously, to want to refuse others content they would enjoy because you're hung-up over and apparently threatened by "elitists", is self-centeredness in its most blatant form. That you'd want to deny others some options *they'd* enjoy because you harbor insecurities about your place among other players (something you regularly demonstrate in your posts) it is pretty sad.

Elitists are going to be elitists no matter what content is added, or how difficult it is. If they don't latch on to one thing, they'll latch on to another.

Some advice:
1) Grow a thicker skin and learn to ignore the elitists. It's really not difficult.
2) Find a group of players who share your preference and style of gameplay
3) Have fun doing what you want and enjoy.
4) Stop worrying about "what others are doing", including the "elitists", and play for your own enjoyment. You'll be happier for it.

I've followed that advice myself for years now... and it's worked out in spades for me.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Umm... what?

I'm sorry, did the discussion suddenly change rails at some point between my post and yours?

We're talking about an optional "difficult" version of a given dungeon for people who might be interested in doing it in XIV. You suddenly come out of the blue with talk about not having the proper gear for a HNM fight in XI.

One has nothing to do with the other.

"If you don't like it, don't do it" is perfectly appropriate. Each and every player makes their own decisions on whether or not something is interesting enough to them to partake in or not. Each and every activity presents every single player with the same requirements and risks for the same possible rewards. No one is given special treatment. Some find it interesting enough to dedicate time to participating in. Others don't.

If an "expert mode" is added to dungeons and you don't find it to be worth your while, then don't join expert mode runs. Join normal difficulty runs instead.

That *you* personally wouldn't want to do something is not a reason to not provide to others who would. The game does not revolve around you and what you do or don't want.




"More elitist derps"...? You are seriously way too hung up up on the whole "elitist" thing. "Oh, they're able to do more difficult content than I am or want to... They must be elitist derps..."

Using different party set ups, or going with lower level characters would be ways to run the dungeon in both normal and "difficult" mode. One does not preclude the other. That's not the same as having a harder difficulty level.

A more difficult mode could present different monster setups, placing tougher monsters in more challenging arrangements, it could require more complex and choreographed boss strategies. It could include more difficult requirements to spawn all the chests. It would be a more challenging presentation of the entire dungeon, not just "making what's already there harder".

Seriously, to want to refuse others content they would enjoy because you're hung-up over and apparently threatened by "elitists", is self-centeredness in its most blatant form. That you'd want to deny others some options *they'd* enjoy because you harbor insecurities about your place among other players (something you regularly demonstrate in your posts) it is pretty sad.

Elitists are going to be elitists no matter what content is added, or how difficult it is. If they don't latch on to one thing, they'll latch on to another.

Some advice:
1) Grow a thicker skin and learn to ignore the elitists. It's really not difficult.
2) Find a group of players who share your preference and style of gameplay
3) Have fun doing what you want and enjoy.
4) Stop worrying about "what others are doing", including the "elitists", and play for your own enjoyment. You'll be happier for it.

I've followed that advice myself for years now... and it's worked out in spades for me.

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You clearly didn't read the OP. He is suggesting HQ drops from the "expert" dungeon. This will lead to massive elitism. "Oh, your r50 mage body isn't +1? You obviously didn't do the hard dungeon. You're too much of a noob for us." *kick* Only, the "lol" comment would contain much worse grammar and punctuation as most elitist trolls can't spell or make a half decent sentence.

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Originally Posted by Alpha_Zeon

MystinaValeth, you have a very cool Sig, i was wondering if you could tell me how you do that, or if you could make one for me.

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Offtopic: An LS Mate, made that sign for him.

On Topic: If you want hardest content, just wait for SE to add more content. In the meanwhile, you can try to kill Batraal, before asking for more difficult content.

P.D: Batraal at 10% last time ><

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Originally Posted by Dubont

You clearly didn't read the OP. He is suggesting HQ drops from the "expert" dungeon. This will lead to massive elitism. "Oh, your r50 mage body isn't +1? You obviously didn't do the hard dungeon. You're too much of a noob for us." *kick* Only, the "lol" comment would contain much worse grammar and punctuation as most elitist trolls can't spell or make a half decent sentence.

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Guy, u have no sense, if is not gear+1 is that u have rings with acc +4 instead +5 or whatever, if u are not a hardcore dont expect to have best year on a game, if u want to have best posible without work, go out from MMORPGS.

As i said, u CANT denied content for hardcore players coz u are not one and they will not accept you. In real life somethings u cant acces coz u are not good enough, or u have not enough time. This is a game, enjoy it and let others to enjoy it their way.

Expert mode: No healing.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Guy, u have no sense, if is not gear+1 is that u have rings with acc +4 instead +5 or whatever, if u are not a hardcore dont expect to have best year on a game, if u want to have best posible without work, go out from MMORPGS.

As i said, u CANT denied content for hardcore players coz u are not one and they will not accept you. In real life somethings u cant acces coz u are not good enough, or u have not enough time. This is a game, enjoy it and let others to enjoy it their way.

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where the hell did you get that I wasn't hardcore? Making the dungeon harder is not adding "content" it is reusing old content and as such, it should give the same rewards. If you want to be hardcore, go in with 1 archer and all of your members r45.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

You clearly didn't read the OP. He is suggesting HQ drops from the "expert" dungeon. This will lead to massive elitism. "Oh, your r50 mage body isn't +1? You obviously didn't do the hard dungeon. You're too much of a noob for us." *kick* Only, the "lol" comment would contain much worse grammar and punctuation as most elitist trolls can't spell or make a half decent sentence.

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Again, you're still hung up on the "elitist" thing, still bashing away... and ignoring the bigger point I keep making.

This is the last time I'm going to try to get it through to you...

I can't stand elitists or their superficial nonsense either... I make fun of them on a regular basis because I find the amount of self-importance and ego they derive from fake items that have zero significance outside the game, and that can be taken away with the flick of a switch to be beyond absurd.

They annoy me, so I don't deal with them. However, I also don't sit around blaming my lack of achievement on "those damn elitists", because at the end of the day... they're *not stopping me from doing what I want to do*.

It boils down to 1) your own attitude and 2) the people you choose to hang out with.

In every MMO I've ever played (a lot), I have known and been part of groups of people who were very active in end-game content, but were not elitists. They did not require top end gear to go on end-game runs. They did not hassle their members for not having it. They understood not everyone is interested in getting the best gear and, better still, they recognized that it wasn't needed. Those are the people I sought out and hung around with. In XI, they did every end-game event, HNM run, Sky, Sea... you name it.. They did it all. They only thing they required is that you be cooperative, be attentive, don't be greedy, have a good attitude, be reliable, have gear that was at least appropriate for your level (ie. not top-shelf, but adequate) and know your job well enough to do what was required in a given fight.

You don't need to be an elitist, nor be beholden to elitists to achieve what you want in the game. You just have to 1) Stop complaining and 2) Find a group that suits your tastes and get involved.

There is absolutely no difference between you and any other player in the game. Zero. You have access to the same content, the same races, same classes, same skills, same gear, same options.. as everyone else. The only thing separating them from you is that while they're out there putting forth the effort and making progress, you're here on the forums putting forth complaints and making excuses.

If you want to get the good stuff all the "elitists" have, then quit wallowing, get over the whole "elitists are ruining the game for me" crap, and put forth the effort.

Stop blaming others for your own lack of effort or initiative.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Again, you're still hung up on the "elitist" thing, still bashing away... and ignoring the bigger point I keep making.

This is the last time I'm going to try to get it through to you...

I can't stand elitists or their superficial nonsense either... I make fun of them on a regular basis because I find the amount of self-importance and ego they derive from fake items that have zero significance outside the game, and that can be taken away with the flick of a switch to be beyond absurd.

They annoy me, so I don't deal with them. However, I also don't sit around blaming my lack of achievement on "those damn elitists", because at the end of the day... they're *not stopping me from doing what I want to do*.

It boils down to 1) your own attitude and 2) the people you choose to hang out with.

In every MMO I've ever played (a lot), I have known and been part of groups of people who were very active in end-game content, but were not elitists. They did not require top end gear to go on end-game runs. They did not hassle their members for not having it. They understood not everyone is interested in getting the best gear and, better still, they recognized that it wasn't needed. Those are the people I sought out and hung around with. In XI, they did every end-game event, HNM run, Sky, Sea... you name it.. They did it all. They only thing they required is that you be cooperative, be attentive, don't be greedy, have a good attitude, be reliable, have gear that was at least appropriate for your level (ie. not top-shelf, but adequate) and know your job well enough to do what was required in a given fight.

You don't need to be an elitist, nor be beholden to elitists to achieve what you want in the game. You just have to 1) Stop complaining and 2) Find a group that suits your tastes and get involved.

There is absolutely no difference between you and any other player in the game. Zero. You have access to the same content, the same races, same classes, same skills, same gear, same options.. as everyone else. The only thing separating them from you is that while they're out there putting forth the effort and making progress, you're here on the forums putting forth complaints and making excuses.

If you want to get the good stuff all the "elitists" have, then quit wallowing, get over the whole "elitists are ruining the game for me" crap, and put forth the effort.

Stop blaming others for your own lack of effort or initiative.

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all of this from a r14...lol you talk as if you've actually played the game or that you may actually know me. You actually think that I'm on the forums when I COULD be on the game? No. When I'm on the forums, it is because I CAN'T be on the game. I never once blamed anything regarding my access to anything on elitists. I just stated that if they all have HQ gear and you have NQ because "expert" retardation is not for you, they will look down upon you even more than they already do even with NQ gear.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

where the hell did you get that I wasn't hardcore? Making the dungeon harder is not adding "content" it is reusing old content and as such, it should give the same rewards. If you want to be hardcore, go in with 1 archer and all of your members r45.

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seriously.. so why GL have different stars? to people SELECT their dificult, and more dificult -> more rewards

is simple, u want tons of diferent dungeos, sure. I live in real life and know SE cant right now do that, so i am asking something so easy to implement and some people like me will have something to try beat after batral is down. Why i asked for a reward for it? coz some people need an incentive to go there. How many times will u down batral if he dont drop anything? 2? 3? goals, that all. And stop saying things like go as archer with all 45, i hope u are more intelligence than that

Meh. Just wait for new dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

seriously.. so why GL have different stars? to people SELECT their dificult, and more dificult -> more rewards

is simple, u want tons of diferent dungeos, sure. I live in real life and know SE cant right now do that, so i am asking something so easy to implement and some people like me will have something to try beat after batral is down. Why i asked for a reward for it? coz some people need an incentive to go there. How many times will u down batral if he dont drop anything? 2? 3? goals, that all. And stop saying things like go as archer with all 45, i hope u are more intelligence than that

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yes, 5 star leves offer more rewards and a slight bit more gil, but they don't offer say...HQ+3 Velveteen Kecks...so if a dungeon offers an ex version of Jade Crook...putting it on 2* shouldn't give you Jade Crook +1/2/3. It should, instead, increase the drop rate, but since you didn't suggest anything like that, I say no to your OP. If you want harder dungeons, go as a 45 party. "expert" mode. Have fun =)

sure, and if u are have not lvl 45, sorry for u. God, i like u are not a game developer, end game could be so bored and easy