5 Man Dungeon Content

I think they should create content for 5 man dungeon groups.

Advantages:

1. It is "different." Varied game play is healthy.
2. It causes faster queue times for DPS. No one waits for DPS but DPS waits by having 3 DPS the queue time for them will involve less suffering.
3. It could lead to a spot for a 'support' role.

Thoughts?

Imbalanced party was suit & suitting FFXI very well , as for XIV idk , maybe it can suit . Only way to find out is devs to try .

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

...Thoughts?

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Too simple...^^

I'm all for it. I got excited yesterday, first time in over three months of playing I saw "Player in need: DPS" I took a screen shot and thought FFXIV was bugging out. Daily Trial roulette needs DPS sometimes too I guess. Adding an extra slot for a DPS would be fine IMO, might actually eliminate some dungeon wipes.

Bored as a DPS? Tired of waiting in queues? Play a job that isn't a dime a dozen. DPSing is the easiest role in the game, because you generally have no responsibilities in a dungeon at all. Yes there are occasions where you have to burn a target quickly, like Ifrit's Infernal Nails, but those instances are few and far between.

In response to your comment that "No one waits for DPS," B.S. I get trolled by DPS in Duty Finder constantly. I get more pop'n'drops than I do confirmations on some days, and it's always the DPS. Maybe they're not used to seeing it so they don't know how to react, maybe they're asleep at the keyboard because they waited so long, I don't know, but don't go changing the game mechanics to accommodate laziness.

In addition to that, when I'm in dungeon runs and I have someone that's not following the marks, it is ALWAYS a DPS. Who pulls the patrolling monster because they're in a big damned hurry even though I have no TP to taunt it off them, and then they whine that they died? DPS.

Don't get me wrong. Really good DPSers can make or break a dungeon run, but because it's easy, almost everyone does it, which means there are a LOT of really bad DPSers out there. The idea of making it mandatory to take another one along makes my skin crawl.

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Originally Posted by Nightcaste

In response to your comment that "No one waits for DPS," B.S. I get trolled by DPS in Duty Finder constantly. I get more pop'n'drops than I do confirmations on some days, and it's always the DPS. Maybe they're not used to seeing it so they don't know how to react, maybe they're asleep at the keyboard because they waited so long, I don't know, but don't go changing the game mechanics to accommodate laziness.

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Well yes that happens but that wasn't what I meant. The time waiting from when you initiate duty finder and when you get a pop up is relatively short for healer and tank compared to DPS. Groups aren't waiting for a DPS to queue up. And for some DPS it such a long way they do something else and then bam they missed their shot. There was another thread on this forum that talked about it.

That being said my main is healer and probably will always be my main. I have to level up THM to get swiftcast and I think it would be nice to keep leveling but long queue times will be frustrating and this is a potential solution.

While it is true that it's mostly DPS trolling the ST queues due to SE stupidly not randomising the loot and inviting ppl to fish for in progress( for example OIL dropping from last boss ....why not have a random chance to drop from any boss but still only once/dungeon? nahh too complicated ofc ) , I can't see how other content would have issues with DPS dropping. ST is just very exploitable atm for the people who only want loot late in the dungeon.

I think 5 man dungeons is a great idea, a way to relieve the strain of the DPS queue.

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Originally Posted by Nightcaste

DPSing is the easiest role in the game, because you generally have no responsibilities in a dungeon at all.

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Apart from, I dunno, dealing damage?

Dps usually have to deal with mechanics more than mt except for maybe in fights that require a tank swap. So to say it is easier is not true.

tbh I don't get what's so different about 5 man dungeons. They sound like 4man, but with one more DPS.

They are saving 5 mans for when they eventually expand into support classes.

ye agreed, generally i would say tank in the easiest job. Once u figure out how 2 pull and hold. everything else is easy.

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Originally Posted by Nightcaste

In addition to that, when I'm in dungeon runs and I have someone that's not following the marks, it is ALWAYS a DPS. Who pulls the patrolling monster because they're in a big damned hurry even though I have no TP to taunt it off them, and then they whine that they died? DPS.

Don't get me wrong. Really good DPSers can make or break a dungeon run, but because it's easy, almost everyone does it, which means there are a LOT of really bad DPSers out there. The idea of making it mandatory to take another one along makes my skin crawl.

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Having played DPS, Tanking and Healing, there seems to be far more bad tanks than bad dps. As a Tank you shouldn't have to have dps following marks to hold threat. Honestly DPS not following marks makes my job actually exciting. In regards to level of difficulty, tanks only have to worry about positioning and holding threat. Threat is easy if you know the class, and if you look at Titan. Tanking positioning is easier than DPS positioning. Go do Titan HM as a BLM.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Having played DPS, Tanking and Healing, there seems to be far more bad tanks than bad dps. As a Tank you shouldn't have to have dps following marks to hold threat. Honestly DPS not following marks makes my job actually exciting. In regards to level of difficulty, tanks only have to worry about positioning and holding threat. Threat is easy if you know the class, and if you look at Titan. Tanking positioning is easier than DPS positioning. Go do Titan HM as a BLM.

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Hows about having both? I just ran into someone dual boxing as a tank and DPS. The DPS was in the wrong gear (STR and MND instead of INT) and when the other DPS called him out, he said my healing sucked, even though I wasn't even involved in the argument. All he did was spam Physick the whole run on the DPS and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have mattered how good or bad I was, he still would have done that and used the healer as an excuse..(the other DPS said I wasn't bad, though.)

I think it is not so easy to make a 3 DPS 1 healer 1 tank dungeon with how the roles are made now. If the difficulty is increased due to 1 more DPS present, the healer may have too much work, healing one more person. The strength of healers is made to heal a 4 player group, adding one more may be difficult to make without it being too easy (so that the healer can cope) or too difficult.

If there are another role present it would be good to have 5 class anyway as i see acn base class should consider supportive already (sch is shield and dammage reduction base while smn is dot and more dot make them easier to kill)

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Originally Posted by Nightcaste

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Don't get me wrong. Really good DPSers can make or break a dungeon run, but because it's easy, almost everyone does it, which means there are a LOT of really bad DPSers out there. The idea of making it mandatory to take another one along makes my skin crawl.

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For my money, in any group environment it's always Healers and dps that have it hardest. As a tank, your focus is always on trash or the big boss. You follow a set rotation for building and keeping threat (which can actually be macro'd in this game) and then you keep an eye out for mechanics. The healer has to monitor everyone's health while keeping an eye on mechanics, while Dps has pump out damage, watch for threat, and watch out for mechanics. The last three mmo's I played have completely removed threat as a factor and DPS STILL had the hard job because of enrages and battle mechanics. I've been telling people for years that if you have to play an MMO, the best of all gigs to get is a raid tanking spot. Especially offtanking. No stress once you get the patterns down. People treat you like a genius for being able to watch a youtube video and take notes, five minutes before the raid starts.

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Originally Posted by JonBigwood

I think it is not so easy to make a 3 DPS 1 healer 1 tank dungeon with how the roles are made now. If the difficulty is increased due to 1 more DPS present, the healer may have too much work, healing one more person. The strength of healers is made to heal a 4 player group, adding one more may be difficult to make without it being too easy (so that the healer can cope) or too difficult.

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Actually all they'd have to buff is monster HP for the most part to compensate for the extra damage. Adjusting a current dungeon to five man may also require buffs to the damage output/number of adds etc. but nothing major.

I'd definitely like to see 5 man dungeons. I'd also, however, like the option to do dungeons with less than the maximum amount of players. Often enough I felt like running a dungeon with just 2-3 people for fun or specific drops, but the game doesn't allow it.

About the tough life of DPS having to wait hours in df - I queue as DRG, BRD or MNK and see no longer queues than 30 min max
About levelling up harder job than DPS - there are lot of places where tanking is the easiest part actualy. Not sure about healing because I only have lvl 40 WHM so far.

It would require new specific dungeons and either classes changes to specifically support or the addition of support only classes. I agree completely with the OP.

I would like to see some 5 man dungeons just for the sake of variety, the queue times aren't really a big deal. There could be some interesting new mechanics that could be designed with a larger party.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy-NL

Dps usually have to deal with mechanics more than mt except for maybe in fights that require a tank swap. So to say it is easier is not true.

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If you're tanking and you lose aggro, people bitch at you. If you're a healer and someone dies, people bitch at you. If you're a DPS and you're standing there with your thumb in your ass no one says anything because everyone's alive and the mobs aren't. If playing a DPS wasn't easy, then why are there about 50 to 1 compared to healers and tanks?

The fights with mechanics where you have to depend on the DPS to handle something are few and far between. It may seem more frequent because those fights are also the ones that people tend to grind (Primals, for example) but on the grand scale of everything you do from level 1 to level 50 and beyond, One healer and one tank could do 80% of it by themselves. The DPS is just there for convenience.

Considering how many times I have to ask people to follow marks when I'm tanking, it's not that much of a convenience either.

It would be nice for 5 person dugeons. It would also be nice for an easier way to do a 3 man dungeon. In the past, We would have one person drop group and then run the dungeon. Lots of fun. As a main healer, I don't see having a 3rd dps to be an issue and would be fun. Could help some groups if there is a new dps to the dungeon to keep up the damage. I don't see why SE couldn't do a 5 man dungeon. I get if they have to build it in as a tank, 3 dps and a healer. The option to make our own random version of a 3 to 5 player party would best to change it up in lvl 50 dungeons. The current model is getting....well... old and boring.

Changing dungeons to 5 man would help DPS que and support easier to inplement. Normal setup is 1 tank, 1 heal and 2 dps, but with 5 man plus new support class it could be 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dps and the last slot would be either support or dps depending on whichever qued first

Won't adding another DPS slot make the wait times take longer or remain the same? You'd still have to wait for a healer and tank, which apparently very few people play as.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

Changing dungeons to 5 man would help DPS que and support easier to inplement. Normal setup is 1 tank, 1 heal and 2 dps, but with 5 man plus new support class it could be 1 tank, 1 heal, 2 dps and the last slot would be either support or dps depending on whichever qued first

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How much help could going five man really be, though? I'm still playing WoW off and on until my subscription for it runs out at the end of the month, and trust me: Those wait times still suck.

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Originally Posted by Roxinova

Hows about having both? I just ran into someone dual boxing as a tank and DPS. The DPS was in the wrong gear (STR and MND instead of INT) and when the other DPS called him out, he said my healing sucked, even though I wasn't even involved in the argument. All he did was spam Physick the whole run on the DPS and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have mattered how good or bad I was, he still would have done that and used the healer as an excuse..(the other DPS said I wasn't bad, though.)

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What does this have to do with anything?