Has the question of how many people have cleared T9 vs. obtained Novus ever been...

Asked to Yoshi-P? I ask this because Novus (Or rather the Relic upgrade path) is usually pitched as the alternative to obtaining the Coil BiS weapon for people who don't have time to raid, but when you look at the time needed to obtain it (Even if it is over time) isn't the grind/effort required relatively similar? Rather than a "casual" weapon it's basically just a different "fringe" weapon, just not the same fringe as say T9 clearing. That and it's also a huge monetary investment in addition to the time involved.

But yeah, just curious.

Turn 9 weapons are definitely a lot cheaper than Novus... >___>

I don't see how a "casual" could ever afford to meld all the materia. I've heard it costing 8-12mil gil for a det/crit novus. My BLM one is at 60/75 and I just have little desire at this point to finish it when DET IVs are 600k each. My DRG one is at 25/75 and will be staying there indefinitely because @$^%! that!

So, to me, getting a T9 weapon is less painful than having to rely on RNG and cry everytime a meld fails.

its really the opposite. the coil/ soldiery weapons are offered as alternatives to grinding for the relic. the relic itself is very gil/time consuming on an insane level, and is not soemthing everyone will do. coil weapons are offered for the people who dont want to have to do that for a good main/off hand. soldiery weapons are good as well, but they can take some time. on paper, coil would offer a good weapon with minimal effort as compared to grinding for the soldiery, soldiery is for the people who dont mind the grind, but cant complete the coil(like me). i have lv 110 main/off hand for my lv 41 pld.

the soldiery/coil weapons appeal to two different groups, soldiery is for people who dont mind the grind, and coil would be for the people who dont want that kind of grind, but can still put in the effort.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

its really the opposite. the coil/ soldiery weapons are offered as alternatives to grinding for the relic. the relic itself is very gil/time consuming on an insane level, and is not soemthing everyone will do. coil weapons are offered for the people who dont want to have to do that for a good main/off hand. soldiery weapons are good as well, but they can take some time. on paper, coil would offer a good weapon with minimal effort as compared to grinding for the soldiery, soldiery is for the people who dont mind the grind, but cant complete the coil(like me). i have lv 110 main/off hand for my lv 41 pld.

the soldiery/coil weapons appeal to two different groups, soldiery is for people who dont mind the grind, and coil would be for the people who dont want that kind of grind, but can still put in the effort.

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You've got that completely the wrong way around.

Getting a UAT in ST and 1300 sol for the tokens is easier and cheaper than novus, I got it on smn but did not go above tier III on crit and Det instead I put the other 19 in acc as I don't use the job for end game, otherwise it would have cost me around 6.5 mil to finish off drift and Det if buying the materia. Also consider the changes to spiritbonding as this is where a lot of us got ours, but now with the changes it's not as easy as it was for us.

Nobody said you HAD to infuse tier IV materia. That's pretty much for the min/maxers willing to dump millions of gil for the relatively small damage boost that it would provide. Novus is quite easily within reach for pretty much anyone that has the time to get to that phase of the relic quest.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

You've got that completely the wrong way around.

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then, would you care to provide the correct way, and the reasoning behind?

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Originally Posted by mero-ix

Turn 9 weapons are definitely a lot cheaper than Novus... >___>

I don't see how a "casual" could ever afford to meld all the materia. I've heard it costing 8-12mil gil for a det/crit novus. My BLM one is at 60/75 and I just have little desire at this point to finish it when DET IVs are 600k each. My DRG one is at 25/75 and will be staying there indefinitely because @$^%! that!

So, to me, getting a T9 weapon is less painful than having to rely on RNG and cry everytime a meld fails.

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You don't have to use for level IV Materia. Also, what are you using your girl for?

Yea i just started mine and ehh i don't have the sort of gil lol so my zodiac is staying purple for a long time :P {unless i hit it big}

-People can't clear T9 not only because of time, but also ability. So its not just a time issue. The monetary investment is compensation to get a fairly comparable weapon.
-Getting a high allagan weapon is subjected to rng dropping your weapon. Some will never see the loot they want even after clearing t9 for many weeks. Novus is more or less guaranteed once you finish the process, though there is also rng involved with melding
-Novus allows you to customize the stats and even exceeds the stat weight for an i110 weapon. It's more like a ilvl 112 or 113 weapon. Combine that with the fact that some HA weapons are horribly itemised (smn book I'm looking at you), the two weapons are fairly on par for some classes.

All in all, I think it's quite a balanced system.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

-People can't clear T9 not only because of time, but also ability. So its not just a time issue. The monetary investment is compensation to get a fairly comparable weapon.
-Getting a high allagan weapon is subjected to rng dropping your weapon. Some will never see the loot they want even after clearing t9 for many weeks. Novus is more or less guaranteed once you finish the process, though there is also rng involved with melding
-Novus allows you to customize the stats and even exceeds the stat weight for an i110 weapon. Combine that with the fact that some HA weapons are horribly itemised (smn book I'm looking at you) it's quite attractive to get a novus

All in all, I think it's quite a balanced system.

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You forgot to mention that relics will continue to progress beyond the current patch while the other weapons won't - that's mostly why I went and ground out a Novus (plus it looks cool).

I have my Novus and compared to the headache of going to get my T9 weapon, I prefer having it done on the Novus.

Granted I did Parry/ACC which is my tank weapon, I just don't see the idea of going Det at all on my PLD. I don't min/max anymore as, simply put, I don't do hardcore raiding anymore.

I've got 18 points to go on my shield and in no rush to do it either. =/ Just in a place right now that I don't really know what I wanna do in the game. BLeh.

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

You forgot to mention that relics will continue to progress beyond the current patch while the other weapons won't - that's mostly why I went and ground out a Novus (plus it looks cool).

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Yeah I still went ahead and finished my novus even though I got my HA weapon from T9 because it will likely be an upgrade come the next patch. Just not sure what form of grind/rng yoshi is going to subject us to in the next stage of the quest > <

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Originally Posted by skaterger

Combine that with the fact that some HA weapons are horribly itemised (smn book I'm looking at you), the two weapons are fairly on par for some classes.

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Crit/Spell Speed isn't that bad >_>

It's better than acc/spell speed.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

You don't have to use for level IV Materia. Also, what are you using your girl for?

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I don't "have" to use IV materia, but the perfectionist in me won't allow otherwise, so I'll just wait and hope prices eventually go down. I'm in no rush. I'm doing novus because I know it'll keep upgrading as time goes on and I don't want to miss out on that content. I don't need it as a weapon, I just want to have a nice glowy thing. :D

What am I using my gil for? I have a wedding to save for! :rolleyes: Also, I am no where near having 8mil gil, so it's not a matter of being stingy, I'm just poor lol.

It's funny how the majority of responses to the cost of Novus is akin to something inherent to the time/grind it takes to finish. The absurd and astronomical price tag is because of PLAYERS wanting to gouge the price of an item they believe they can cash in on. it's nothing more than selfish greed. 800-1mil for mat IV is just stupid. It is by far the most expensive commodity in the game.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Crit/Spell Speed isn't that bad >_>

It's better than acc/spell speed.

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It's bad enough. HA weapon does about 5-10 dps more than book of spades. Any worse and it would be inferior to novus ;)

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Originally Posted by kuikui

800-1mil for mat IV is just stupid. It is by far the most expensive commodity in the game.

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Yet, people still buy them. Basic economics, prices will stay as high as people are willing to pay. If anything, the number of people willing to pay those prices is an indication gil is inflated (ironically).

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

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IMO, the time is not an issue since I don't see anything wrong with spending time on something here. This way, you have something to do in this long term process as you finish your weapon. Let alone the fact that the hunting system increased the speed of tis process by... a lot. Heck, I even have a FC member that just got like half of them in 1 week. The materia costs are debatable, depends on the servers and depends on the people. The materia you'll use is your choice alone, and you can split it between 3 stats, instead of 2 alone. In the end, and if you think about it, you'll only be sacrificing 10/13 points of any stat. It's not that much. If you do the same with a secondary one, you'll have 20/26 points to spare in a 3rd sub-attribute. I don't know how the situation in your server is but, in my opinion, the most "critical" stat is the accuracy, since there's a minimal requirement for that in every end-game raid in this game. Having that stat in a safe point, you can mess around with your other stats. When the weapon is ready, it becomes an ilvl 110 weapon, having an increased damage and its main atributes are increased as well. Keep in mind that you'll be able to reset said stats in the future, so it's not something that you'll be tied forever.

This weapon will be improved as well, as the patches are being implemented, so it's more like a future investiment. Even if Yoshi-p said (If he did) that the relic will always stay a step behind the most big d*** in-game weapon, we don't know how we'll obtain the other alternatives, so we better stick with what we know so far. They might even change their mind and the last part of the new end-game raid drops an item to increase the relic's power to its maxium for that patch! We don't know.

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Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

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Acc/Parry is a safe combination for tanks. I did that with my Curtana/Holy Shield. It's not an impediment for clearing T9 though, so you're good with that.

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Originally Posted by mero-ix

I don't see how a "casual" could ever afford to meld all the materia. I've heard it costing 8-12mil gil for a det/crit novus. My BLM one is at 60/75 and I just have little desire at this point to finish it when DET IVs are 600k each. My DRG one is at 25/75 and will be staying there indefinitely because @$^%! that!

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Atma>>>Animus>>>Novus can be achieved solo. Hence the time taken is equal to the effort needed to clear turn 9.

Also, Materia IVs are not needde whatsover. You can cap on Materia 3s for Det and Crit and finish with something like accuracy, Skill or spell speed, reducing the cost even further. Also Materia 1 to 3 do not take an extended time to Spritbind by yourself.

As I said, the time is extended to counter the effort needed to create or join a party, then learn to be able to clear t9. Also, due to RNG, you may not see your weapon drop in a longer time frame than it takes to obtain Novus. Novus is guaranteed, your turn 9 drop isnt.

People make Novus way more difficult than it needs to be. Example: Best BLM Novus is 44 Spell Speed and 31 DET (per dmg calculator). This will cost 10-15 million gil. Alternative: 25 crit, 25 spell speed and 25 det. You'll end up with 1-2 less DPS but only spend around 300-500k.

1-2 DPS (1.5 avg) when BLMs parse at 450+ DPS on T8. Congratulations - you spent 10-15 million gil to gain an additional second of damage every 5 minutes (450 / 1.5 = 300 seconds).

NOBODY WILL EVER NOTICE THIS.

What if stats are reset once again after Novus? What if the upgrade after Novus provides the same opportunity to upgrade stats of your choosing (where you could catch up on CRIT / spell speed and fully max out due to diminishing returns)? For all we know - future upgrades and available gear could make 44 spell speed and 31 det the absolute worst Novus choice. There simply are too many uncertainties.

Bottom line - you're not creating an inferior Novus in the slightest by losing out on 1 second of damage every 5 minutes. Save the 10M to 15M gil unless you're swimming in gil. Ultimately it's your decision - but I don't see how anyone can justify spending 15M gil on a minimal at best benefit that could easily be lost with a single hiccup.

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NOBODY WILL EVER NOTICE THIS.

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NOBODY EXCEPT ME, EVERY TIME I LOOK AT THE WEAPON. WHICH IS LIKE, PRETTY OFTEN DUDE, ALMOST ALL THE TIME REALLY.

My Bravura ended up at 31 DET/33CRIT/11 ACC. I compromised on the crits and stopped when I'd maxed out T3. The Determination though, I'm very happy I took the time and made the money to cap that out, it ended up being around 3 million gil. But what else am I going to spend the money on apart from burning it for desynth, or in some other manner where it's just pissed into the wind?.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

then, would you care to provide the correct way, and the reasoning behind?

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Because you needed to do coil to get UAT before ST came out. So it wasn't mean to be like you explained in your post when they were released thus making your point invalid.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

NOBODY EXCEPT ME, EVERY TIME I LOOK AT THE WEAPON. WHICH IS LIKE, PRETTY OFTEN DUDE, ALMOST ALL THE TIME REALLY.

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Not talking about noticing the stats - talking about noticing the impact. It's practically non-existent. You take a single second longer than a teammate in the span of 5 minutes and you've lost the benefit entirely.

Uat, chill through dungeons for a couple of weeks to get the soldiery, and in those couple of weeks do the daily marks, boom 110 weap. It's the real casual weapon, and only disadvantage to it is if the 2ndary stats suck for you. And why are BLMs melding det on to their novus? It sux really bad for casters xDD (psssssst, spell speed is better and costs a fraction of the price )

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Uat, chill through dungeons for a couple of weeks to get the soldiery, and in those couple of weeks do the daily marks, boom 110 weap. It's the real casual weapon, and only disadvantage to it is if the 2ndary stats suck for you. And why are BLMs melding det on to their novus? It sux really bad for casters xDD (psssssst, spell speed is better and costs a fraction of the price )

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Not going to argue with you regarding spell speed being the best. However - the best combination is 44 spell speed and 31 DET (so i wouldn't say it sucks). But as mentioned above: 25 spell speed, 25 DET and 25 Crit is a mere 1-2 dmg less than 44 spell speed and 31 DET. Thus - a mere one second of additional damage every 5 minutes (immaterial / unnoticeable).

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Yet, people still buy them. Basic economics, prices will stay as high as people are willing to pay. If anything, the number of people willing to pay those prices is an indication gil is inflated (ironically).

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It's actually a catch-22: prices are high, so people buy gil from RMT because they need it now and so they buy at those prices. Thus, the sellers are motivated to keep prices high, which continues to motivate people to buy gil.

The only people this doesn't apply to are the people making all the gil from selling these overpriced objects, who can buy whatever they need because they're filthy rich off of their and the RMT buyer's greed and impatience.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Crit/Spell Speed isn't that bad >_>

It's better than acc/spell speed.

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That's my plan for my Omnilex. Doesn't have to compete with stats from another weapon, rather meld something a little different for swaps.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Not going to argue with you regarding spell speed being the best. However - the best combination is 44 spell speed and 31 DET (so i wouldn't say it sucks). But as mentioned above: 25 spell speed, 25 DET and 25 Crit is a mere 1-2 dmg less than 44 spell speed and 31 DET. Thus - a mere one second of additional damage every 5 minutes (immaterial / unnoticeable).

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Gimmie spellspeed and crit rate any day <3_<3

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Gimmie spellspeed and crit rate any day <3_<3

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Stat calculator / countless research threads say otherwise

I remember some graph showing the difference between SS, Det and Crit for BLM and it was fairly small, they were so close that I'd say it doesn't matter which of them you pick.

Seriously don't use IV if you don't have the Gil. It's not that big of a deal. Just upgrade it to 110 for the dmg and later on you'll be able to respec it anyway.

I won't ever believe a graph that says criting more often on a BLM is worse than raising each hit by an almost unnoticeable amount with Det. BLM criting is the difference between night and day, it means a lot more for a blm to crit than any other class since they have the highest non crits in the game. Int and w att take care of the numbers really, ss and crit rate do the rest.

IMO SS is garbage for BLM if you get 50 more points of it it drops your cast time by something like .05, meaning that in order to get 1 extra cast over someone using 50 less SS you need to cast, uninterrupted, 47 times in a row which would take about 2 minuets of just standing there. Bar T8 when you're not handling any mechanics this never happens meaning any extra dps SS does is basically moot. Also after dropping from 590 crit to about 560 I've seen 1-2% less crits because it starts scaling poorly after 560.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Asked to Yoshi-P? I ask this because Novus (Or rather the Relic upgrade path) is usually pitched as the alternative to obtaining the Coil BiS weapon for people who don't have time to raid, but when you look at the time needed to obtain it (Even if it is over time) isn't the grind/effort required relatively similar? Rather than a "casual" weapon it's basically just a different "fringe" weapon, just not the same fringe as say T9 clearing. That and it's also a huge monetary investment in addition to the time involved.

But yeah, just curious.

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I wanted to get the Curtana and Holy Shield Novus, because i didn’t expect to clear T9 any time soon. So far i’ve managed to beat T6, but haven’t started on T7 until i clear T6 with the rest of the static i’m in. Next to that (for comparison), i've started working on the Novus about a week after it was released in the patch.

I planned to “cap” the Accuracy and Parry stat as well as replace the Skill Speed with Determination. In order to do so, i needed 31 Accuracy and 22 Parry on my Curtana as well as 13 Parry and 9 Determination on my Holy Shield.

As of today, i only need to infuse 4 more Parry into my Holy Shield and if all 4 infusions succeed, then i’ve spend about 2.3 Million Gil on the Materia for it. The main reason is that i’ve lost 900k due to 3 failed Tier 4 Determination infusions.

All-in-all it is a lot of money for someone like me, but compared to what other people had to spend for the Determination + Crit combination, i consider myself pretty lucky it didn’t cost more.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

Asked to Yoshi-P? I ask this because Novus (Or rather the Relic upgrade path) is usually pitched as the alternative to obtaining the Coil BiS weapon for people who don't have time to raid, but when you look at the time needed to obtain it (Even if it is over time) isn't the grind/effort required relatively similar?

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Time to raid requires a steady commitment, whereas the time investment towards novus is something you can do whenever you log in. And the latter is often what separates casuals from raiders. Not the total time invested into the game, but the lack of scheduled play. Many raiders only play around 10 - 20 hours a week. Most of it being just logging in to raid. Whereas many casuals may play up to around 40 hours a week, but simply can't commit to being there on scheduled occasions week in, week out.

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Originally Posted by kuikui

The absurd and astronomical price tag is because of PLAYERS wanting to gouge the price of an item they believe they can cash in on. it's nothing more than selfish greed. 800-1mil for mat IV is just stupid. It is by far the most expensive commodity in the game.

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But if they weren't selling for that, prices would come down until they did sell.

Why should I sell something for 200k when someone is willing to pay 800k for it?

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Originally Posted by Sapphic

Atma>>>Animus>>>Novus can be achieved solo. Hence the time taken is equal to the effort needed to clear turn 9.

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Can't obtain Animus completely solo... You still have to do 27 dungeon runs, and even if you manage to go through them alone, you still need 3 others to enter.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

Can't obtain Animus completely solo... You still have to do 27 dungeon runs, and even if you manage to go through them alone, you still need 3 others to enter.

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You can que solo in DF. Do not have to have a party to que.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

But if they weren't selling for that, prices would come down until they did sell.

Why should I sell something for 200k when someone is willing to pay 800k for it?

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THIS.

Selling an item for what people will pay for it IS selling it for what it is worth.

Selling an item for what it is worth is not greed. It is common sense.